2017 IUBB recruiting

[Stuhoo 88,010]

1 minute ago, Hovadipo said:

I think this, in a way, is a big part of it. I'm guessing it takes a certain type of player to play for Crean. Someone that wants to be told how to become great will play for him and love it. Someone that wants to be told that they're great already won't. Almost every recruit comments on how a major part of his recruiting pitch is what he thinks they should work on before they get to college. Maybe more coaches do this, but I don't know for sure. I'm willing to bet a lot of 5 stars (or just good basketball players in general) have been told they were already great for 5-8 years, so they just don't really identify with Crean and his approach. I want the guys that do identify with his approach, and if that means not landing many 5 stars, then I'm fine with it.

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Ding ding ding...

We have a winner-post.

 

[Brass Cannon 25,243]

10 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

I think this, in a way, is a big part of it. I'm guessing it takes a certain type of player to play for Crean. Someone that wants to be told how to become great will play for him and love it. Someone that wants to be told that they're great already won't. Almost every recruit comments on how a major part of his recruiting pitch is what he thinks they should work on before they get to college. Maybe more coaches do this, but I don't know for sure. I'm willing to bet a lot of 5 stars (or just good basketball players in general) have been told they were already great for 5-8 years, so they just don't really identify with Crean and his approach. I want the guys that do identify with his approach, and if that means not landing many 5 stars, then I'm fine with it.

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Which is fine but it still raises questions about how we are prioritizing recruits and wasting way too much energy on them.  When we could be using it on high 4 stars who know they have holes in their game and excited to play for a coach that is excited to teach them how to fill those in. 

[GloryDays 6,190]

I think this, in a way, is a big part of it. I'm guessing it takes a certain type of player to play for Crean. Someone that wants to be told how to become great will play for him and love it. Someone that wants to be told that they're great already won't. Almost every recruit comments on how a major part of his recruiting pitch is what he thinks they should work on before they get to college. Maybe more coaches do this, but I don't know for sure. I'm willing to bet a lot of 5 stars (or just good basketball players in general) have been told they were already great for 5-8 years, so they just don't really identify with Crean and his approach. I want the guys that do identify with his approach, and if that means not landing many 5 stars, then I'm fine with it.

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I am too just find it odd we come up empty on such a loaded instate class.Wilkes hasn't committed so I'll hold on to that thread if hope.As the Waters recruitment this year along with Brown last year show things can change fast.

[Old Friend 8,613]

2 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

The state of Indiana is easily accessible and recruited by us, Purdue, ND, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisville, OSU, MSU, and Michigan. Wisconsin is pretty much up there on its own. Maybe they compete a bit more with Iowa and Minnesota? We have consistent championship caliber teams constantly right next door. I don't think anyone will ever be able to truly lock down the state, especially with three legendary coaches all within a few hours drive.


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That has been true for 75 years and when we had our best teams under Knight, it didn't matter.   My comment is "so what?"   Apart from Kentucky, not a school on that list has anywhere close to offering Indiana does.  Illinois?   Purdue?  Notre Dame?   No.  Indiana spends by far more on recruiting than any school in the Big Ten, misses on more prospects than all of them, and still settles all the time for players who have no chance to help.   I'll refer again to Priller, Robinson, and Hoetzel among others (Muniru, Michel, etc) from all over the place.   If Indiana can't compete with the schools you mentioned (while they're getting our in state kids), we don't have the right approach or perhaps the right guy telling the story.   Until we have a focus on the area (and it's more than just the state), we won't have any idea what we can do.   Crean does not have a focus.....he shotguns.  I don't mean this to be critical of him necessarily, I'm just answering the recruiting spending question that was posed above.

[BGleas 8,955]

1 hour ago, Hovadipo said:

I think this, in a way, is a big part of it. I'm guessing it takes a certain type of player to play for Crean. Someone that wants to be told how to become great will play for him and love it. Someone that wants to be told that they're great already won't. Almost every recruit comments on how a major part of his recruiting pitch is what he thinks they should work on before they get to college. Maybe more coaches do this, but I don't know for sure. I'm willing to bet a lot of 5 stars (or just good basketball players in general) have been told they were already great for 5-8 years, so they just don't really identify with Crean and his approach. I want the guys that do identify with his approach, and if that means not landing many 5 stars, then I'm fine with it.

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I understand why you would come to this conclusion given our recent track record with 5*'s, but I just don't think it's the reality of the situation. I don't know why we aren't getting 5*'s, but I don't think it's because Crean is telling them things to work on. Look at the greatest in their sports right now, LeBron, Tom Brady, JJ Watt, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, etc., etc., these guys are relentless workers and constantly striving to improve. LeBron works on his game tirelessly. 

I have a hard time believing were not getting 5*'s because Crean wants to help them improve even more. These 5* kids have real money on the line. There's a huge difference financially between getting drafted 3rd overall and 14th overall. These guys work their butts off to get drafted as high as possible, so I doubt Crean pitching them on how they can improve their game is the reason they're not picking Indiana.

[Alford Bailey 13,189]

Many of these kids are drama queens. I agree with Hova, many want dont want to hear what Crean has to say. And Im pretty much over the ESPN announcement with the hats tormenting fan bases kind of thing as well.  But, I also agree with Brass, we should probably focus on down the line in 4 star territory.

[Alford Bailey 13,189]

I've been sayin for a couple years it was unrealistic to expect to land even 2-3 of these 2017 Indiana kids. Thought we'd do well to land one. Still hoping we land one.

[Hovadipo 61,154]

I understand why you would come to this conclusion given our recent track record with 5*'s, but I just don't think it's the reality of the situation. I don't know why we aren't getting 5*'s, but I don't think it's because Crean is telling them things to work on. Look at the greatest in their sports right now, LeBron, Tom Brady, JJ Watt, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, etc., etc., these guys are relentless workers and constantly striving to improve. LeBron works on his game tirelessly. 

I have a hard time believing were not getting 5*'s because Crean wants to help them improve even more. These 5* kids have real money on the line. There's a huge difference financially between getting drafted 3rd overall and 14th overall. These guys work their butts off to get drafted as high as possible, so I doubt Crean pitching them on how they can improve their game is the reason they're not picking Indiana.

How many of the 5 stars that we miss on make it to the level that those guys are on? That group you mention is a rare breed and it seems like alot of these top 10 prize recruits don't amount to much outside of your Ben Simmons types that are obviously head and shoulders above everyone. It would be interesting to look at the top 25 or 50 NBA players and compare their high school rankings.

I stick by the point that Crean's intensity surely pushes people away.

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[Hovadipo 61,154]

Which is fine but it still raises questions about how we are prioritizing recruits and wasting way too much energy on them.  When we could be using it on high 4 stars who know they have holes in their game and excited to play for a coach that is excited to teach them how to fill those in. 

I do agree with this. I wish we would go hard after the Cujo's and Justin Smith's and allow a TB or Vonleh to fall in our laps every so often. You obviously can't not go after a Kris Wilkes like we have, but that's just an unfortunate outcome and I have no idea how to explain his decision.


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[BGleas 8,955]

3 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

How many of the 5 stars that we miss on make it to the level that those guys are on? That group you mention is a rare breed and it seems like alot of these top 10 prize recruits don't amount to much outside of your Ben Simmons types that are obviously head and shoulders above everyone. It would be interesting to look at the top 25 or 50 NBA players and compare their high school rankings.

I stick by the point that Crean's intensity surely pushes people away.

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His intensity might push them away, no argument there, but I doubt it's because he's giving them feedback on how to improve their game. Professional athletes, even the ones that aren't superstars, work incredibly hard on their games. These guys spend hours, upon hours in the gym. Being told how to improve is not new to them. 

If the research was done, and it probably has been, I'd guess a good number of top 25 recruits are in the NBA. 

[HooHooHoo22 3,926]

Didn't Kyle Guy say something about how weird Crean was or how weird he made him feel? I think crean is a great person but he could come off as weird to some people


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[Hovadipo 61,154]

His intensity might push them away, no argument there, but I doubt it's because he's giving them feedback on how to improve their game. Professional athletes, even the ones that aren't superstars, work incredibly hard on their games. These guys spend hours, upon hours in the gym. Being told how to improve is not new to them. 

If the research was done, and it probably has been, I'd guess a good number of top 25 recruits are in the NBA. 

And the point about giving them tips on their game might have been a poor one, but it was just an example of how it seems like his recruiting strategy is different from other coaches. It may not be, but guys always seem to mention that first with him. He is just one of those guys that comes in *very* hot with people, and I think it could be an eye-opener for the top guys who probably don't see that very often. Definitely agree that anyone playing college/pro ball has to work their arse off to get there. I just wonder how many coaches recruiting a guy tackle it the way he does.


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[Hoosier Roots 784]

It doesn't help that we're not really a hot program in college basketball right now. Some schools like duke, Kentucky, Arizona, Michigan State and Kansas just have an aura of coolness that is unbelievably important to 16,17,18 year olds and we don't have it right now for whatever reason. Some schools managed to have success with out it like Wisconsin and Villanova but we don't seem to be trying to emulate their formula.


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[Alford Bailey 13,189]

We will probably have to get to a couple Final Fours or hang banner #6 to take the next step in recruiting. B1G titles arent that impressive to kids.

[Uspshoosier 53,257]

Didn't Kyle Guy say something about how weird Crean was or how weird he made him feel? I think crean is a great person but he could come off as weird to some people


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I didn't see that but I did see an interview when he committed to Virginia and said that with Virginia he felt like he was their top priority at shooting guard


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[hoosierpap 14,300]

1 hour ago, Hoosier Roots said:

It doesn't help that we're not really a hot program in college basketball right now. Some schools like duke, Kentucky, Arizona, Michigan State and Kansas just have an aura of coolness that is unbelievably important to 16,17,18 year olds and we don't have it right now for whatever reason. Some schools managed to have success with out it like Wisconsin and Villanova but we don't seem to be trying to emulate their formula.


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This.

[BGleas 8,955]

2 hours ago, Hoosier Roots said:

It doesn't help that we're not really a hot program in college basketball right now. Some schools like duke, Kentucky, Arizona, Michigan State and Kansas just have an aura of coolness that is unbelievably important to 16,17,18 year olds and we don't have it right now for whatever reason. Some schools managed to have success with out it like Wisconsin and Villanova but we don't seem to be trying to emulate their formula.


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I agree on this too, but may have a bit of a different take on it though. I agree that Indiana isn't "cool" nationally or with recruits, but I actually think Crean has raised the cool-factor of IU the last 4-6 years. I haven't lived in Indiana since 1992, and being on the East Coast all that time, I can tell you that people really did not see Indiana as cool the last several years of Knight's tenure and through Davis' regime. During those years IU was the team that wore short shorts, had the crazy coach, and was slow to evolve. 

I actually think that with guys like VO, Troy, Yogi, Sheehey, Zeller, Watford and others, and with upgraded facilities and some other bells & whistles Crean has added, I really think the "cool factor" has gone up. It's just that it was SOOOOO low to begin with.

[Sota Hoosier 450]

I don't think IU or Crean has the charisma right now, despite the relative success over the last 5 years. I asked the question whether IU is the "the dad" of college basketball and that is my general feeling and I think that emanates from Crean.

Bottom line: we are a top 10-15 program in the country (higher obviously if you consider historic success) and we should't have to recruit like we're not. Changes are needed.

[WayneFleekHoosier 50,701]

I think, "doing it the right way", plays a gigantic factor.

I could be wrong, and if so the excuses are much less, but reasonably its hindering our ability to keep up with The Joneses.


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[hsrtxp 1,400]

I think, "doing it the right way", plays a gigantic factor.

I could be wrong, and if so the excuses are much less, but reasonably its hindering our ability to keep up with The Joneses.


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If "doing it the right way" is holding us back, then I want to be held back. I don't want to stoop to the level of those programs. I'll take the 3's, 4's and occasional 5's with a CLEAN program any day.


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