2017 IUBB recruiting

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

15 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

13 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

Others may feel differently but my concern with Crean's recruiting historically has been large classes with lots of transfers, unbalanced rosters, some complete waste of scholarships, and an inability to build off if success.

That's not to say he hasn't had some recruiting success or that it's been terrible but it's still kind of all over the place.

At this point we should be able to focus on a smaller number of recruits, hone in and close a few of our top targets each year.

Exactly! If Crean can add the right piece to this 2017 class I think most will be happy.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

 

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

15 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

I guess I would disagree that next years team will lack talent. In my opinion I don't call 6 top 120 players a lack of talent and 3 of those players being upper class man. Balanced roster would be the bigger concern in my opinion


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Yes, roster balance is mostly the concern with this 2017 class.

[HoosierTrav 7,732]

Not trying to start a fight but if u take away the first 3 years like u stated 2 of the 6 remaining classes he recruited were top 10 classes nationally (4 and 8). The other class are pretty ordinary at 21,22,and 29(Bryant, juwan, and og that one has worked out well for us). We might not be recruiting at a high level of late but to say crean will never recruit at a high level when he already has had 2 top 8 classes is not backed by facts. Just my opinion


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

I should have been more specific.
When I say we will never recruit like Duke, Kansas, Arizona, UK, I'm talking about landing multiple 5 star players CONSISTENTLY. There is no precedent and we are currently trending further away from this level of recruiting. We haven't had 1 single class with multiple 5 stars. The schools listed above do this nearly every year. I can accept that reality. Will you admit that we are not likely to consistently recruit at the highest level?

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I should have been more specific.
When I say we will never recruit like Duke, Kansas, Arizona, UK, I'm talking about landing multiple 5 star players CONSISTENTLY. There is no precedent and we are currently trending further away from this level of recruiting. We haven't had 1 single class with multiple 5 stars. The schools listed above do this nearly every year. I can accept that reality. Will you admit that we are not likely to consistently recruit at the highest level?

That's what I was saying earlier. Unless Crean wins as consistently and as long as the coaches at those programs have, we won't. But I disagree that we are trending away. The multiple B1G titles and Sweet Sixteen visits are a trend towards what needs to happen in order for us to recruit at that level.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[HoosierTrav 7,732]

Just viewing individual classes can be misleading sometimes that's why I think roster balancing is more important then individual class rankings unless your program goes full one and done route. Looking back at some other teams ranking that have been ahead of iu's is interesting. I would much rather had iu's 29th ranked class with Bryant, og and juwan than Ohio states top 5 class in 2015 that only has Lyle left to show for it.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Agree completely! I wasn't trying to bash Crean in my original post. I just don't think we should expect us to have great recruiting classes year in and year out. I'm happy with what we've had recently. You can win championships in cbb recruiting and developing cores of 3-4* players. That's Crean's wheelhouse.

[HoosierTrav 7,732]

That's what I was saying earlier. Unless Crean wins as consistently and as long as the coaches at those programs have, we won't. But I disagree that we are trending away. The multiple B1G titles and Sweet Sixteen visits are a trend towards what needs to happen in order for us to recruit at that level.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

When I say trending away I'm speaking purely in terms of recruiting at the highest level. I'm happy with the direction we are moving, in terms of on court success. That's all that really matters at the end of the day.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

5 minutes ago, HoosierTrav said:

 

When I say trending away I'm speaking purely in terms of recruiting at the highest level. I'm happy with the direction we are moving, in terms of on court success. That's all that really matters at the end of the day.

 

We're on the same page. I was highlighting that the on court success is a large part of the puzzle that will drive recruiting success. It'll impact Crean's perceived stability as head coach and the relevance of the program.

Definitely agree with this, hence my confusion regarding a lot of the recruiting gripes being discussed. I get 2017 hasn't panned out as many envisioned, but neither did 2015 and here we are discussing potentially winning back-to-back B1G titles.

[Uspshoosier 45,104]

I should have been more specific.
When I say we will never recruit like Duke, Kansas, Arizona, UK, I'm talking about landing multiple 5 star players CONSISTENTLY. There is no precedent and we are currently trending further away from this level of recruiting. We haven't had 1 single class with multiple 5 stars. The schools listed above do this nearly every year. I can accept that reality. Will you admit that we are not likely to consistently recruit at the highest level?

We are on the same page. Duke and Kentucky and to an extent Kansas has to recruit at the highest level because of the turnover they have every year because their recruiting philosophy is the one and done. This is just my opinion but I hope iu never has to recruits that way. I much rather have solid classes with the top players sprinkled throughout a 4 year cycle. I like having classes with top 50 4 star kids that I get to watch grow each year and by their senior year they turn into all conference players. It's just my personal preference I'm not saying the one and done way is wrong or the way I like it is superior. If crean decided to go the one and done philosophy I would be upset but since it is iu I would learn to live with it


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

I've posted my recruiting strategy several times on here.  It's a pretty simple philosophy that meshes elite "one and done" talent with solid 3-4 year players.

(1-2) Headliner, 5* - high 4* possible one and done talent (examples: Zeller, Yogi, Vonleh, Williams, JBJ, Bryant)

(1-2) Solid three to four year, 4* - high 3* early role players turned upperclassmen leaders (examples: Watford, Hulls, Sheehey, Oladipo, Hartman, RoJo, JMo, Davis, CuJo, Green, Smith, Moore)

(1) Project player^, happy to play sparingly as an underclassmen and work to contribute as an upperclassmen (Gelon, Durham)

Project player shouldn't be at the same position as the previous season, meaning you shouldn't take a project player at guard two years in a row.  We've had more players in the solid three to four year players that transferred out of the program that are not listed.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

5 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

We are on the same page. Duke and Kentucky and to an extent Kansas has to recruit at the highest level because of the turnover they have every year because their recruiting philosophy is the one and done. This is just my opinion but I hope iu never has to recruits that way. I much rather have solid classes with the top players sprinkled throughout a 4 year cycle. I like having classes with top 50 4 star kids that I get to watch grow each year and by their senior year they turn into all conference players. It's just my personal preference I'm not saying the one and done way is wrong or the way I like it is superior. If crean decided to go the one and done philosophy I would be upset but since it is iu I would learn to live with it


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

I get this argument to an extent, about recruiting 4 star guys.. But I don't think it really makes sense when you look at a list of past champions. Almost all of the teams who have won the National Championship over the last 15 years or so have been teams that have landed 5 star recruits with some consistency. I can see the Connecticut team who won in 2014, Villanova last year, and maybe the Maryland team that beat Indiana as exceptions. But for the most part looking back 15 years, the teams that have won it all, had these 5-star guys on the roster. 

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

2 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

I get this argument to an extent, about recruiting 4 star guys.. But I don't think it really makes sense when you look at a list of past champions. Almost all of the teams who have won the National Championship over the last 15 years or so have been teams that have landed 5 star recruits with some consistency. I can see the Connecticut team who won in 2014, Villanova last year, and maybe the Maryland team that beat Indiana as exceptions. But for the most part looking back 15 years, the teams that have won it all, had these 5-star guys on the roster. 

I believe it was in a tweet, only two National Championship teams have had multiple one and dones; Duke in 2015 and puke in 2012.  If I had to lean towards one way I would lean toward experienced four star recruits over mostly one and dones. 

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I believe it was in a tweet, only two National Championship teams have had multiple one and dones; Duke in 2015 and puke in 2012.  If I had to lean towards one way I would lean toward experienced four star recruits over mostly one and dones. 

I'm not talking one and done. I'm saying 5 star recruits as opposed to 4 star. For example.. Zeller, Bryant, and Blackmon were all 5 star players who stayed multiple years.

[Uspshoosier 45,104]

I get this argument to an extent, about recruiting 4 star guys.. But I don't think it really makes sense when you look at a list of past champions. Almost all of the teams who have won the National Championship over the last 15 years or so have been teams that have landed 5 star recruits with some consistency. I can see the Connecticut team who won in 2014, Villanova last year, and maybe the Maryland team that beat Indiana as exceptions. But for the most part looking back 15 years, the teams that have won it all, had these 5-star guys on the roster. 

I never said not to recruit 5 star kids just not a whole team of them. Jaylen Brunson was a 5 star kid on Villanova last year. If u took at look at past winners I'm sure each of them had at least one but most didn't have over 3 on the same team since the one and done has came into play there has only been 2 winners that have had a one and done player on their team duke in 2015 and Kentucky in 2012.

The back to back Florida national championship teams was lead by high 4 star players I don't believe they had a 5 star ranked out of high school. That's not to say joking, Corey, and al all turned into 5 stars after their freshman year

Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I'm not talking one and done. I'm saying 5 star recruits as opposed to 4 star. For example.. Zeller, Bryant, and Blackmon were all 5 star players who stayed multiple years.

Kinda hard (impossible) to predict multi-year 5 stars... Pretty much any consensus top 25 kid bears a decent sized risk of entering the draft after one year. Crean has done a good job of targeting top talent interested in staying longer, with the exception of Vonleh which hoosierpap has previously expanded on. Crean's recruiting strategy just doesn't seem to target or cater to one year players. I would expect us to ever recruit 5 stars at a higher rate than we currently do.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

11 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Kinda hard (impossible) to predict multi-year 5 stars... Pretty much any consensus top 25 kid bears a decent sized risk of entering the draft after one year. Crean has done a good job of targeting top talent interested in staying longer, with the exception of Vonleh which hoosierpap has previously expanded on. Crean's recruiting strategy just doesn't seem to target or cater to one year players. I would expect us to ever recruit 5 stars at a higher rate than we currently do.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Like you stated, Crean has done a good job finding those top 25 recruits who stay multiple years.  I don't have a problem with getting a one and done every once in awhile.  I don't want to see IU turn into a one and done factory though.  While you state it's hard (impossible) to predict multi-year 5 stars Crean has done it.  That might play into why we aren't landing Wilkes?  It doesn't even have to be top 25 recruits though, just instant impact frosh/sophomores.  In the last few years you have Bryant, (appears to be) OG, JBJ, Williams, Vonleh, etc.  It's possible to do.  I don't think Crean is far off and was hurt by some of the recruiting misses, unbalanced classes with "the movement" and the 2013 class.  Crean almost had to hit the reset button on recruiting after the 2012/2013 classes by his own doing.  That has set us back a bit.

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

We need a headliner. Justin Smith is our highest ranked recruit at around 80. Get a top 50 impact guy and Im ok with this group.

[mdn82 25,510]

That's what I was saying earlier. Unless Crean wins as consistently and as long as the coaches at those programs have, we won't. But I disagree that we are trending away. The multiple B1G titles and Sweet Sixteen visits are a trend towards what needs to happen in order for us to recruit at that level.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

I think getting multiple 5* goes beyond winning. You have to have a cool factor for kids we haven't had in years. Sean Miller and Josh Pastnor at Memphis are the easiest examples. You can now add Alford at UCLA into that along with the goofy dude from Washington.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Yogi's Picnic Basket 5,004]

21 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

We need a headliner. Justin Smith is our highest ranked recruit at around 80. Get a top 50 impact guy and Im ok with this group.

I see Jordan Tucker coming here. Just have a gut feeling that I never had with Wilkes and haven't had it w anyone else in this class. I think Smith & Moore will overachieve so I'm okay w this class. Not the best & would expect more as well, but 2 B1G titles makes me realize Crean is best suited for this job. We need another great assistant IMO. Martin is good & I like Buckley, but we just need THAT guy that can talk our brand up and hit home w these kids. Lorenzo Romar has built a great staff and a lot of his recruits like him, but I always see them giving credit to assistants. Murray, Chriss, Fultz, Porter will all be 1st rounders & they got Norwell & Davis as top 50 guys. He's killing it lately, but the on court success hasn't been there. That's why I'm okay w Crean. He finds ways. He will find a way w this class too trust me. Its gonna be hilarious if somehow we got Diallo, Preston & Tucker. Can't wait for Friday to get here!! 

[BubbleKnuts 569]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

I've posted my recruiting strategy several times on here.  It's a pretty simple philosophy that meshes elite "one and done" talent with solid 3-4 year players.

(1-2) Headliner, 5* - high 4* possible one and done talent (examples: Zeller, Yogi, Vonleh, Williams, JBJ, Bryant)

(1-2) Solid three to four year, 4* - high 3* early role players turned upperclassmen leaders (examples: Watford, Hulls, Sheehey, Oladipo, Hartman, RoJo, JMo, Davis, CuJo, Green, Smith, Moore)

(1) Project player^, happy to play sparingly as an underclassmen and work to contribute as an upperclassmen (Gelon, Durham)

Project player shouldn't be at the same position as the previous season, meaning you shouldn't take a project player at guard two years in a row.  We've had more players in the solid three to four year players that transferred out of the program that are not listed.

I remember when OG was in that project column. 

[IUsince1980 315]

I see Jordan Tucker coming here. Just have a gut feeling that I never had with Wilkes and haven't had it w anyone else in this class. I think Smith & Moore will overachieve so I'm okay w this class. Not the best & would expect more as well, but 2 B1G titles makes me realize Crean is best suited for this job. We need another great assistant IMO. Martin is good & I like Buckley, but we just need THAT guy that can talk our brand up and hit home w these kids. Lorenzo Romar has built a great staff and a lot of his recruits like him, but I always see them giving credit to assistants. Murray, Chriss, Fultz, Porter will all be 1st rounders & they got Norwell & Davis as top 50 guys. He's killing it lately, but the on court success hasn't been there. That's why I'm okay w Crean. He finds ways. He will find a way w this class too trust me. Its gonna be hilarious if somehow we got Diallo, Preston & Tucker. Can't wait for Friday to get here!! 

When is Tucker deciding? Spring? There isnt any CB picks for him. Where is the gur feeling he's coming here coming from?

Sent from my SPH-L720T using BtownBanners mobile app