IUBB vs WSU Postgame :( Thread

[rick.eagan.75 13]

Yes, as I was writing this, I was thinking that it is up to the coach to motivate the players to listen to him. Some way, some how. Maybe they just aren't very smart, but I doubt that's the case. That being said. This is about where I thought we would end up this year. I really thought that we would end up nit bound. So we actually over achieved in my book.

[Hovadipo 54,773]

yup...already do...but was lambasted for it...
so...whatever.

BOOOOOO :)

[Alford Bailey 12,346]

The problem with our defense is much more than "want to". Take the play where WSU scored out of the timeout to go back up 4.

JBJ's man was in the corner on the baseline and the ball was at the top of the key. JBJ was inexplicably face-guarding his man. Completely positioned incorrectly. He couldn't see anything happening on the court behind him. Yogi even called out the back screen, but due to his poor positioning, he was completely unprepared to get around it in time and he got burned for the layup.

Didn't matter how much or how little he "wanted to", his positioning was awful. That's BBall IQ and coaching. I watched JBJ specifically and many of our guys this year, and we were constantly out of position, constantly turning our heads completely from the ball and just lacked any type of defensive Fundementals.

"Want to" would help, but we seemed poorly coached on that end as well IMO.

Bingo. As I said smart of Marshall to go at JBJ for that basket.

[Me So Hornsby 2,747]

I feel like everyone is suicidal right now with this team and CTC. But looking at next year, we have a chance to have a great team. We are in the running for a top 25 big guy(exactly what we need), we will get DD back which is a huge boost, and we will have a lot of returning talent. I will take that formula every time, I mean seriously if we hold on to most of everybody how could you not like that potential team? Would losing maybe all of that be worth getting a different coach that may or may not improve our situation? Another year under everyone's belt and some newcomers could turn this into a championship caliber team and we are acting like there is no hope and we have the worst coach in D1. Its mind boggling to me

[cappymo14 2,276]

Ability is absolutely part of the equation on defense. Attitude and 'want to' are part of it, a big part, but there is more to it.

Hulls tried on defense, and his intelligence let him be a pretty good off-ball/help defender but he was limited on ball because of athleticism. His defensive struggles had nothing to do with desire to play that end.

Maybe Crean just isn't much of a defensive coach? I've posted the defensive rankings of his teams going back to 2002 before, and aside from a few seasons defense was never a strong point of his teams.

I agree JS. I never thought Jordy was a very good defender. I see some think he was but he was slow and couldn't get through a pick with a bulldozer. I remember it got bad enough at the end of his senior year, he had to sub out every defensive possession. He was a big liability out there.

[KingPG21 6,582]

I feel like everyone is suicidal right now with this team and CTC. But looking at next year, we have a chance to have a great team. We are in the running for a top 25 big guy(exactly what we need), we will get DD back which is a huge boost, and we will have a lot of returning talent. I will take that formula every time, I mean seriously if we hold on to most of everybody how could you not like that potential team? Would losing maybe all of that be worth getting a different coach that may or may not improve our situation? Another year under everyone's belt and some newcomers could turn this into a championship caliber team and we are acting like there is no hope and we have the worst coach in D1. Its mind boggling to me

And then the year after that we look awful. Long term success should trump short term success. We've seen nothing but inconsistency with Crean. And missing the tournament more than once every decade isn't cutting it. I'm even being generous there, making the tournament isn't that hard with the expansion to 68 teams

[OliviaPope40 6,401]

NO SENIORS!!!!!

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

After watching this game, I began to wonder. Maybe the problem is not Crean. Maybe the players really are not listening to what he is telling them. At 30 or so seconds to go, he was on the sideline pleading for them to foul, and they let 10 or so seconds slip by before they did it. To me today you could really see a BIG difference in the way the 2 teams played. IU seemed to be more about getting their own shot, where Wich played off of each other. Oh well, wait till next year.

 

I somewhat agree with this.  We, coaching staff and players, seem to have a very low basketball IQ and/or lack execution.  Did the team give up on what the coach was preaching or the did preacher not coach the team up enough?

[Me So Hornsby 2,747]

And then the year after that we look awful. Long term success should trump short term success. We've seen nothing but inconsistency with Crean. And missing the tournament more than once every decade isn't cutting it. I'm even being generous there, making the tournament isn't that hard with the expansion to 68 teams

So making the tourney 3/4 years doesn't count? And that one year missing the tourney was after losing 2 top 5 picks and half the team? I get that making the tourney 3 out of 7 is not up to IU standards but have we already forgotten the mess of those first few years? Bottom line is we have to do better and I think with CTC we can and will do better. And how do you know we would be going to zero after next year? We have some great talent in our underclassmen and CTC is an above average recruiter. Does that all just go away?

[KingPG21 6,582]

So making the tourney 3/4 years doesn't count? And that one year missing the tourney was after losing 2 top 5 picks and half the team? I get that making the tourney 3 out of 7 is not up to IU standards but have we already forgotten the mess of those first few years? Bottom line is we have to do better and I think with CTC we can and will do better. And how do you know we would be going to zero after next year? We have some great talent in our underclassmen and CTC is an above average recruiter. Does that all just go away?

Yogi will be gone, who knows what DD will be, it sounds like Troy could easily jump early this year or next, JBJ is going to be limited by his lack of athleticism, and Holt doesn't have that high of a ceiling. Who else on the roster or who is committed has you saying your excited. And nope, toss away first two years, didn't really see much growth between year 2 and 3 to say we should be happy. The people that want to make arguments for Crean always want to throw away the years he didn't make the tournament and start counting the first year it doesn't works that way. Don't get how that really makes sense other than picking a year to fit the argument. There was minimal improvement from year 2-3.

Also, we are a ten seed and lost in the first game. How is this acceptable. It is Crean's own fault for piss poor roster management. He doesn't get a pass because guys left
pu

[cjvz20 896]

Dude, really think about what you just said.....

i just think they are non committal because they don't even know what is going to happen with crean

[BenzOrBeamer 351]

Love this arguemt that we could be great next year and be in the top 25.

[coonhounds 8,768]

Ugh we aren't top one million so aggravating only post of the night

[Me So Hornsby 2,747]

Yogi will be gone, who knows what DD will be, it sounds like Troy could easily jump early this year or next, JBJ is going to be limited by his lack of athleticism, and Holt doesn't have that high of a ceiling. Who else on the roster or who is committed has you saying your excited. And nope, toss away first two years, didn't really see much growth between year 2 and 3 to say we should be happy. The people that want to make arguments for Crean always want to throw away the years he didn't make the tournament and start counting the first year it doesn't works that way. Don't get how that really makes sense other than picking a year to fit the argument. There was minimal improvement from year 2-3.

Also, we are a ten seed and lost in the first game. How is this acceptable. It is Crean's own fault for piss poor roster management. He doesn't get a pass because guys left
pu

What about Robert Johnson? What about Collin Hartman? Stan Robinson as bad as he played this year is a great talent. Juwan Morgan has me really excited too. I think it is way too early to write off JBJ/Troy and Emmit Holt I think is going to be a great player for us. There are a ton of recruiting targets out there that we are going after that could end up in candy stripes which is really exciting. 

 

I said right in my post that getting to the tourney 3/7 is not acceptable for our program. We are better than that, but it is foolish to not take into account the fact that CTC took over a team with one scholarship player on it. But I will give you that it isnt acceptable. I just dont get the Chicken Little/world is ending attitude of what seems like our entire fan base.

[JSHoosier 19,756]

So making the tourney 3/4 years doesn't count? And that one year missing the tourney was after losing 2 top 5 picks and half the team? I get that making the tourney 3 out of 7 is not up to IU standards but have we already forgotten the mess of those first few years? Bottom line is we have to do better and I think with CTC we can and will do better. And how do you know we would be going to zero after next year? We have some great talent in our underclassmen and CTC is an above average recruiter. Does that all just go away?

16 years tell us what we've seen is par for the course with Crean, up and down while the highs aren't high enough and the lows are too low.  I have 16 years on my side to say no it really isn't going to be much more than we've already seen.  What have you got to say he can do better?  Hopes and dreams?  There's nothing of any substance in any of his career to base it on.  When is he going to improve as a coach?  He hasn't done it yet, in 16 years.  He still doesn't teach good fundamental basketball or a fluid offense and his teams can't rely on defense because since 2002 his teams have ranked around 96th in D; instead he wants to rely on the stuff you can watch at Rucker Park in New York.  

[jarrnoel 36]

Why is everybody saying Yogi is gone? Where is he going? Leaving college early for an overseas pro career or second round no pay draft pick? He is one of the best Players IU has ever had, but not NBA caliber...yet.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,852]

Why is everybody saying Yogi is gone? Where is he going? Leaving college early for an overseas pro career or second round no pay draft pick? He is one of the best Players IU has ever had, but not NBA caliber...yet.

people are worried about Pro status and Grad transfer. It's not so much his pro stock, but more our programs direction compared to his unlimited options.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,852]

people are worried about Pro status and Grad transfer. It's not so much his pro stock, but more our programs direction compared to his unlimited options.

i personally think he comes back.

[MPFOGARTY 15]

It hasnt just been today. They were two of the most inconsistent players all year. They would have a good game followed by 3 or 4 where they completely disappeared 

 

I've been critical of JBJ all season. I know he's a Freshman, and on the road, he's played like a Freshman. But all this hype around him is premature. He's asked to do too much too soon. He'll be better once he works on his D.

[BenzOrBeamer 351]

Why is everybody saying Yogi is gone? Where is he going? Leaving college early for an overseas pro career or second round no pay draft pick? He is one of the best Players IU has ever had, but not NBA caliber...yet.

Yogi is not one of the best players iu has ever had

That's a slap in the face to a lot of greats. Never understood yogis popularity. He whines and pouts

If his name was michael he wouldn't be as popular. My theory is that his name is involved in the psychology of his popularity