Rick Bozich On Crean and Co.

[Miller'sTheMan 1,652]

I'm telling you all don't be surprised if Troy leaves after this year .. He's shooting up draft boards

He is, but how high can he get with virtually no outside game as of now? I can't see him leaving being a late 1st round projection at best.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

You need an impact player in almost every class. They may leave early but you need some big time players with big time talent.

Agreed. But we saw what happened with Vonleh. It honestly didn't matter that he was here, we couldn't get it done and needed some veterans around him. A Vonleh was never going to stay more than one year.

Where this team is right now, we need another recruiting class of players committed to fulfilling their degree at IU so that when we add another Vonleh we have the right pieces to win it all.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

I agree, it's nice to have the top recruiting class with a top national recruit. But the two things our fan base wants out of recruiting classes are 1) Talent 2) Longevity

Those two wants cannot be fulfilled by Swanigan and Maker type players. Players like OG and Morgan offer talent, ability to improve, and the likelihood that they become veteran players with talent AND experience. I don't want to see Crean continue to recruit Priller and April type players, but I'm very happy with recruiting classes of talented players who will play 3+ years together.

 

THIS!  I'll take two 4-star players who will stay all four (at least 3) years----we need upperclassmen!
 

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

But I am selfish---I also want to sprinkle in some 5 stars along the way too!

[MikeRoberts 7,997]

Swanigan isnt a one and done. He will be a 2-4 year player. Unlike Maker, he doesn't have the height or athleticism the nba loves. He is primed for the college game

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Isn't it true Swanigan and IU are not even looking at each other?

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,652]

Isn't it true Swanigan and IU are not even looking at each other?

yes appears so

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Swanigan isnt a one and done. He will be a 2-4 year player. Unlike Maker, he doesn't have the height or athleticism the nba loves. He is primed for the college game

We'll see what his handler decides

[maxwell 685]

 

 

 

First off I would like to sincerely apologize to schoosier and to anyone on either side of this issue it may have offended for my last gif reply.  I was out of control and I ask for forgiveness from all… particularly schoosier as I was wrong.

 

“In your eyes, he's elite.”  This is a fair and very true statement.  I look at this ‘coaching issue’ as a process versus wins and losses results.  I see coaching and the process development of athletes to include the three simple yet important components of mental, emotional, and physical development.  Take care of this process and everything else falls into place.  I feel Coach Tom Crean does this at a very high level on a daily basis, regardless of circumstance.   I bring up circumstance because the results that we have witnessed over the last couple of weeks have not come about because of decision or recommitment of energy was made on November 1, 2014.  They are the ‘outward’ results of what CTC and staff have been putting in place for a solid block of time.  From what I’ve read through the course the '13 '14 year there were enough challenging circumstances, choices and unpleasant relationships for both the coaches and players to learn and benefit from.  Is this an excuse for CTC? No, however he has taken ownership of the leadership of this team and has righted the direction of the ship. He has also indicated in interviews that there is no promise of what the future hold if a player makes the wrong off courts choices.

 

In your opinion, why is Crean struggling tremendously on the recruiting trial right now…. What could possible cause our recruiting to bottom out IMMEDIATELY after sending 3 players into the NBA draft lotto?   I’m guessing from your perspective that you are referring to some of the higher ranked recruits or maybe a particular athlete that we didn’t land or maybe didn’t even go for.  All I can say here is I’m very happy with the future of all the recruits we have.  This is an awesome core and I’m very excited about their opportunity for hard work and personal growth.

 

May I ask you what would have to happen for you to lose support of CTC?  Like I mentioned previously, I believe when you take care of the process the results of wins are going to follow and are taking place as I'm writing this.  I’m not sure what the policy or what the ‘discipline’ is for substance abuse.  I’m not saying we should have a right to that kind of information.  I’m fine with that being taken care of privately.  Going forward that should not be an issue or  a deal breaker but could become a component if the level of action and attitude from Crean ever dropped.  I just don’t see that happening as I believe he is creating considerable momentum that will eventually win over the results oriented crowd.

 

Lets say he's been here for a decade and we never reached a final four; would this be enough for you to want another coach to take the reigns?  I believe our players’ attitudes toward the process of continued improvement on a daily is depicted quite well in the interview  following the Illinois victory.  Upon viewing the videos a couple of days ago, I felt a sense of pride in these guys steering the direction of the conversation away from the results side of things.  In my opinion when young people are handling themselves in this way with a positive mindset toward the future, it is the telling sign of a very good leader.  I understand people want the results.  CTC wants it & committed to it. If we are looking at a decade to get ‘x’ result, I have a difficult time understanding why there are multiple conversations & statements regarding his dismissal here in year seven. 

 

I myself happen to believe that the right coach would have made a Final Four @ Indiana within 7 years of taking the job. I don't subscribe to the notion that Indiana cannot and will never be what it once was. We have every single ingredient in place to achieve this, except (IMO) having the elite coach. I sometimes hear the people who support Crean the most bring up the point that ALL coaches have down years. This is true but I think the most common denominator amongst them that Crean doesn't fit into, is the fact that their recruiting doesn't really fall flat and they only average 1 down year out of every 4. Looking at Crean's entire head coaching career, it is completely reasonable to expect a mediocre or below avg year 2 or 3 times out of 4 years, with the 1 or maybe 2 seasons where he overachieves.. Another crazy statistic that should not be overlooked is the fact that Crean has only qualified for the NCAA tournament in 7 of his 16 seasons coaching.  

 

I understand where you’re coming from when you are looking at the numbers of the course of his career.  I appreciate the time taken to put all of that together; however, in my mind those numbers in no way shape or form reflect how much he has grown as a coach and person since somewhere in the middle of the ’12-’13 season.  Regardless of a person supporting Crean or not, even liking him or not, in my opinion it is ludicrous to throw out a man with his exposure to the experiences and environment he has had access to.  In my mind he has bottled that up & used it for the good and will continue to do so in the future.  Speaking of tough numbers…. I’m glad we didn’t give up on this Lincoln guy.

 

Lincoln's "Failures"?

Below is one version of the so-called "Lincoln failures" list, shown in bold type. It's often used to inspire people to overcome life's difficulties with Lincoln as a model. Then look at the right column with other facts from Lincoln's pre-presidential life. History professor Lucas Morel compiled this comparison from the Chronology in Selected Speeches and Writings/Lincoln by Don E. Fehrenbacher, ed., 1992.
 

YEAR

FAILURES or SETBACKS

SUCCESSES

1832

Lost job
Defeated for state legislature

Elected company captain of Illinois militia in Black Hawk War

1833

Failed in business

Appointed postmaster of New Salem, Illinois
Appointed deputy surveyor of Sangamon County

1834

 

Elected to Illinois state legislature

1835

Sweetheart died

 

1836

Had nervous breakdown

Re-elected to Illinois state legislature (running first in his district)
Received license to practice law in Illinois state courts

1837

 

Led Whig delegation in moving Illinois state capital from Vandalia to Springfield
Became law partner of John T. Stuart

1838

Defeated for Speaker

Nominated for Illinois House Speaker by Whig caucus 
Re-elected to Illinois House (running first in his district)
Served as Whig floor leader

1839

 

Chosen presidential elector by first Whig convention 
Admitted to practice law in U.S. Circuit Court

1840

 

Argues first case before Illinois Supreme Court
Re-elected to Illinois state legislature

1841

 

Established new law practice with Stephen T. Logan

1842

 

Admitted to practice law in U.S. District Court

1843

Defeated for nomination for Congress

 

1844

 

Established own law practice with William H. Herndon as junior partner

1846

 

Elected to Congress

1848

Lost renomination

(Chose not to run for Congress, abiding by rule of rotation among Whigs.)

1849

Rejected for land officer

Admitted to practice law in U.S. Supreme Court
Declined appointment as secretary and then as governor of Oregon Territory

1854

Defeated for U.S. Senate

Elected to Illinois state legislature (but declined seat to run for U.S. Senate)

1856

Defeated for nomination for Vice President

 

1858

Again defeated for U.S. Senate

 

1860

 

Elected President

 

 

 

 

   I know you don’t have 28 years for CTC to win the big one, but if we are giving him 10 years, then let’s give him 10 years.  In my opinion it would be great to save the termination talk till the end of the ten year or what ever you guys are talking about.  This is not directed toward you individually.  It is to us as a fan base in general.

 

Maxwell: You mentioned that no solid professional or man of integrity would take Crean's job after the job he's doing here. First and most importantly, Crean is paid accordingly. The pressure of making final fours or bust is offset by making him the highest paid state employee. Did you know that Bo Ryan makes a full $1,000,000 less than CTC on a yearly basis? I dare you to try and give me a rational justification for that.  I think any coach willing to accept the Indiana job after CTC is ousted would be fully aware that he is coming in with huge expectations and is fully confident in his ability to live up to or exceed these expectations. He would understand that Sweet 16's and missing the tournament and NIT is unacceptable. It may be acceptable for you but I guarantee you that if he doesnt win and win BIG within the next three years, he's toast. Thats how it is and it's completely fair to expect at least one final four in a decade. If Crean had the level of integrity that you speak of, he would have refused to be paid all of his $3.5 million dollar salary last season. Him accepting last seasons salary after performing the way he did puts him in the same class of integrity as any coach who wants the Indiana job after him. No?      

 

I can see where you are coming from on this point.  In my opinion had he backed down in his effort to influence this team in a very professional way then I could see where some people would begin to have an argument.  As you are well aware of by now and as I have previously mentioned in this post that I feel much of the success, both process & results, witnessed in today’s games are a reflection of a real leader remaining loyal to principle and not personalities.  CTC was absolutely busting his rear end to build the momentum of growth in the players.  Once again this is simply my opinion as I have no inside knowledge, yet I feel he is very deserving of his salary.

 

HoosierTrav,  I feel you are a very good communicator.  You are very intelligent and well rounded person who is considerate of the feelings of others based on this post.  I feel certain that you will be an asset to an organization or group of people in your field or endeavor and will be rewarded for that through financial gain or blessed greatly in some other form.  My initial intensions were to come on this board today and apologize to schoosier and take a long break from posting; however, I appreciate your sincere effort in creating your post so I’ve felt I owed at least a reply.  I wish you the best always.

 

Go Hoosiers!

[ALASKA HOOSIER 11,331]

wow.....

[Hovadipo 61,695]

Uh...wut

[Naturalhoosier 15,478]

I love me some Lincoln. But what the hell just happened?!?!!!??

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,652]

What da he'll did i just miss??? I go out to lunch and come back to this?

See, I can't leave this place unattended for even a lunch break, haha

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

there were a lot of them. Which one do you want?

Who?

 

If he wasn't our first choice, then the choices in front of him were't

[HoosierTrav 8,339]

THIS!  I'll take two 4-star players who will stay all four (at least 3) years----we need upperclassmen!
 

I agree to a point. If we were to only get 4 star guys, we would have never landed Zeller. He was the most important recruit in my lifetime.

[HoosierTrav 8,339]

First off I would like to sincerely apologize to schoosier and to anyone on either side of this issue it may have offended for my last gif reply.  I was out of control and I ask for forgiveness from all… particularly schoosier as I was wrong.

 

“In your eyes, he's elite.”  This is a fair and very true statement.  I look at this ‘coaching issue’ as a process versus wins and losses results.  I see coaching and the process development of athletes to include the three simple yet important components of mental, emotional, and physical development.  Take care of this process and everything else falls into place.  I feel Coach Tom Crean does this at a very high level on a daily basis, regardless of circumstance.   I bring up circumstance because the results that we have witnessed over the last couple of weeks have not come about because of decision or recommitment of energy was made on November 1, 2014.  They are the ‘outward’ results of what CTC and staff have been putting in place for a solid block of time.  From what I’ve read through the course the '13 '14 year there were enough challenging circumstances, choices and unpleasant relationships for both the coaches and players to learn and benefit from.  Is this an excuse for CTC? No, however he has taken ownership of the leadership of this team and has righted the direction of the ship. He has also indicated in interviews that there is no promise of what the future hold if a player makes the wrong off courts choices.

 

In your opinion, why is Crean struggling tremendously on the recruiting trial right now…. What could possible cause our recruiting to bottom out IMMEDIATELY after sending 3 players into the NBA draft lotto?   I’m guessing from your perspective that you are referring to some of the higher ranked recruits or maybe a particular athlete that we didn’t land or maybe didn’t even go for.  All I can say here is I’m very happy with the future of all the recruits we have.  This is an awesome core and I’m very excited about their opportunity for hard work and personal growth.

 

May I ask you what would have to happen for you to lose support of CTC?  Like I mentioned previously, I believe when you take care of the process the results of wins are going to follow and are taking place as I'm writing this.  I’m not sure what the policy or what the ‘discipline’ is for substance abuse.  I’m not saying we should have a right to that kind of information.  I’m fine with that being taken care of privately.  Going forward that should not be an issue or  a deal breaker but could become a component if the level of action and attitude from Crean ever dropped.  I just don’t see that happening as I believe he is creating considerable momentum that will eventually win over the results oriented crowd.

 

Lets say he's been here for a decade and we never reached a final four; would this be enough for you to want another coach to take the reigns?  I believe our players’ attitudes toward the process of continued improvement on a daily is depicted quite well in the interview  following the Illinois victory.  Upon viewing the videos a couple of days ago, I felt a sense of pride in these guys steering the direction of the conversation away from the results side of things.  In my opinion when young people are handling themselves in this way with a positive mindset toward the future, it is the telling sign of a very good leader.  I understand people want the results.  CTC wants it & committed to it. If we are looking at a decade to get ‘x’ result, I have a difficult time understanding why there are multiple conversations & statements regarding his dismissal here in year seven. 

 

I myself happen to believe that the right coach would have made a Final Four @ Indiana within 7 years of taking the job. I don't subscribe to the notion that Indiana cannot and will never be what it once was. We have every single ingredient in place to achieve this, except (IMO) having the elite coach. I sometimes hear the people who support Crean the most bring up the point that ALL coaches have down years. This is true but I think the most common denominator amongst them that Crean doesn't fit into, is the fact that their recruiting doesn't really fall flat and they only average 1 down year out of every 4. Looking at Crean's entire head coaching career, it is completely reasonable to expect a mediocre or below avg year 2 or 3 times out of 4 years, with the 1 or maybe 2 seasons where he overachieves.. Another crazy statistic that should not be overlooked is the fact that Crean has only qualified for the NCAA tournament in 7 of his 16 seasons coaching.  

 

I understand where you’re coming from when you are looking at the numbers of the course of his career.  I appreciate the time taken to put all of that together; however, in my mind those numbers in no way shape or form reflect how much he has grown as a coach and person since somewhere in the middle of the ’12-’13 season.  Regardless of a person supporting Crean or not, even liking him or not, in my opinion it is ludicrous to throw out a man with his exposure to the experiences and environment he has had access to.  In my mind he has bottled that up & used it for the good and will continue to do so in the future.  Speaking of tough numbers…. I’m glad we didn’t give up on this Lincoln guy.

 

Lincoln's "Failures"?

Below is one version of the so-called "Lincoln failures" list, shown in bold type. It's often used to inspire people to overcome life's difficulties with Lincoln as a model. Then look at the right column with other facts from Lincoln's pre-presidential life. History professor Lucas Morel compiled this comparison from the Chronology in Selected Speeches and Writings/Lincoln by Don E. Fehrenbacher, ed., 1992.
 

YEAR

FAILURES or SETBACKS

SUCCESSES

1832

Lost job
Defeated for state legislature

Elected company captain of Illinois militia in Black Hawk War

1833

Failed in business

Appointed postmaster of New Salem, Illinois
Appointed deputy surveyor of Sangamon County

1834

 

Elected to Illinois state legislature

1835

Sweetheart died

 

1836

Had nervous breakdown

Re-elected to Illinois state legislature (running first in his district)
Received license to practice law in Illinois state courts

1837

 

Led Whig delegation in moving Illinois state capital from Vandalia to Springfield
Became law partner of John T. Stuart

1838

Defeated for Speaker

Nominated for Illinois House Speaker by Whig caucus 
Re-elected to Illinois House (running first in his district)
Served as Whig floor leader

1839

 

Chosen presidential elector by first Whig convention 
Admitted to practice law in U.S. Circuit Court

1840

 

Argues first case before Illinois Supreme Court
Re-elected to Illinois state legislature

1841

 

Established new law practice with Stephen T. Logan

1842

 

Admitted to practice law in U.S. District Court

1843

Defeated for nomination for Congress

 

1844

 

Established own law practice with William H. Herndon as junior partner

1846

 

Elected to Congress

1848

Lost renomination

(Chose not to run for Congress, abiding by rule of rotation among Whigs.)

1849

Rejected for land officer

Admitted to practice law in U.S. Supreme Court
Declined appointment as secretary and then as governor of Oregon Territory

1854

Defeated for U.S. Senate

Elected to Illinois state legislature (but declined seat to run for U.S. Senate)

1856

Defeated for nomination for Vice President

 

1858

Again defeated for U.S. Senate

 

1860

 

Elected President

 

 

 

 

   I know you don’t have 28 years for CTC to win the big one, but if we are giving him 10 years, then let’s give him 10 years.  In my opinion it would be great to save the termination talk till the end of the ten year or what ever you guys are talking about.  This is not directed toward you individually.  It is to us as a fan base in general.

 

Maxwell: You mentioned that no solid professional or man of integrity would take Crean's job after the job he's doing here. First and most importantly, Crean is paid accordingly. The pressure of making final fours or bust is offset by making him the highest paid state employee. Did you know that Bo Ryan makes a full $1,000,000 less than CTC on a yearly basis? I dare you to try and give me a rational justification for that.  I think any coach willing to accept the Indiana job after CTC is ousted would be fully aware that he is coming in with huge expectations and is fully confident in his ability to live up to or exceed these expectations. He would understand that Sweet 16's and missing the tournament and NIT is unacceptable. It may be acceptable for you but I guarantee you that if he doesnt win and win BIG within the next three years, he's toast. Thats how it is and it's completely fair to expect at least one final four in a decade. If Crean had the level of integrity that you speak of, he would have refused to be paid all of his $3.5 million dollar salary last season. Him accepting last seasons salary after performing the way he did puts him in the same class of integrity as any coach who wants the Indiana job after him. No?      

 

I can see where you are coming from on this point.  In my opinion had he backed down in his effort to influence this team in a very professional way then I could see where some people would begin to have an argument.  As you are well aware of by now and as I have previously mentioned in this post that I feel much of the success, both process & results, witnessed in today’s games are a reflection of a real leader remaining loyal to principle and not personalities.  CTC was absolutely busting his rear end to build the momentum of growth in the players.  Once again this is simply my opinion as I have no inside knowledge, yet I feel he is very deserving of his salary.

 

HoosierTrav,  I feel you are a very good communicator.  You are very intelligent and well rounded person who is considerate of the feelings of others based on this post.  I feel certain that you will be an asset to an organization or group of people in your field or endeavor and will be rewarded for that through financial gain or blessed greatly in some other form.  My initial intensions were to come on this board today and apologize to schoosier and take a long break from posting; however, I appreciate your sincere effort in creating your post so I’ve felt I owed at least a reply.  I wish you the best always.

 

Go Hoosiers!

Thanks for your understanding and not taking my questions and opinions as a personal attack. I truly respect your opinions.

[johnsoniu 7,063]

Wow. It cost me $1.99 to download that post on my Kindle.

[Alford Bailey 13,233]

I cant tell if I agree with it or not but I will like it on effort.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

I agree to a point. If we were to only get 4 star guys, we would have never landed Zeller. He was the most important recruit in my lifetime.

Youngster, I see.

[HoosierTrav 8,339]

Youngster, I see.

Born in '86. There have been players that have taken us further but I've never witnessed momentum shift as profoundly as it shifted when Cody committed to IU. I was only 6 years old during the '92 Final Four run (I've watched the UCLA game and the Duke game over and over again on youtube) and I remember the 2002 Final Four vividly. Even after all of that, I cannot remember a single player that meant as much to Indiana's success as Cody Zeller. I'd love to hear some of the opinions of some people truly blessed enough to have lived during IU's hayday. The guy that works across the office from me always tells me how sorry he is for me, that I never got to enjoy what he enjoyed. He's convinced I'm never going to see that in my lifetime, and he may be right. I'll never give up hope though. I do believe that this is the primary reason why i have little to no patience for CTC at the moment.