No Holt?

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Good points shortspacequickness---but be careful because some people on here are never happy---it doesn't matter who the Coach is---it won't be good enough for some.  And the reality is we could (and have) done a lot worse than Coach Crean.  Unless the next Coach is a "Home Run Hire"---a big name---it won't take long for the daggers to come out yet again.  I guess we are ready for the post-Knight rebuild 5.0 (Davis--Sampson--Dakich---Crean---Next One)!

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

You guys want to mire in mediocrisy?

[Hoosierboy1980 451]

I must have clicked the wrong thread 15 times now!!!! Every time I try a different one I end up right back at the Fire Tom Crean thread.

[8bucks 6,370]

So if Crean doesn't have it, what does it take? Everyone has a lot of neat words and phrases but few ever provide any substance to go with the comic quips. I ask, what does it take to be the kind of coach all you guys want?

Mike Davis took Indiana to the national title. Mike Davis. Kevin Ollie just started coaching and already took UConn. Is it some kind of magic? No coaching tactic got UConn to that position...Napier and Boatwright and Daniels did.

Indiana's biggest problem right now is that it hitched its wagon to some of the wrong guys. They got fooled. There's a reason no one wanted Troy Williams. That is what kills you, not who IU misses on in recruiting. It's the ones we've gotten that are screwing us...

So no one wanted Troy? This was known to everyone? I am not sure I am following you. You have been defending Crean today but then you make a comment about how inept he is yourself.

[LazOffTheBench 3,638]

If every thread seems to come back to "Fire Crean", it could be because there are serious problems with IU basketball and Crean is the coach of the program.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Good points shortspacequickness---but be careful because some people on here are never happy---it doesn't matter who the Coach is---it won't be good enough for some. And the reality is we could (and have) done a lot worse than Coach Crean. Unless the next Coach is a "Home Run Hire"---a big name---it won't take long for the daggers to come out yet again. I guess we are ready for the post-Knight rebuild 5.0 (Davis--Sampson--Dakich---Crean---Next One)!

Dakich gets his own version number for his couple of games? Worst. Rebuild. Ever.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Dakich gets his own version number for his couple of games? Worst. Rebuild. Ever.

 

But just ask him and he will tell you how great he was/is....Talks the talk--- but doesn't walk the walk!

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

So no one wanted Troy? This was known to everyone? I am not sure I am following you. You have been defending Crean today but then you make a comment about how inept he is yourself.

That is one example of a mistake that has been made... there are going to be misses in recruiting. I can defend Crean and still think he makes big mistakes.

 

Troy tried committing to UNC and UK, but both backed out... I just find it interesting that he fell in Indiana's lap. I think we are seeing why... he's an AAU hype/athlete. He can't play the game.

[8bucks 6,370]

That is one example of a mistake that has been made... there are going to be misses in recruiting. I can defend Crean and still think he makes big mistakes.

Troy tried committing to UNC and UK, but both backed out... I just find it interesting that he fell in Indiana's lap. I think we are seeing why... he's an AAU hype/athlete. He can't play the game.

Fair enough. Still we have given Crean 6 years and many are willing to give him this year to prove himself but you have given up on Troy in a little more than a year.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Fair enough. Still we have given Crean 6 years and many are willing to give him this year to prove himself but you have given up on Troy in a little more than a year.

Evaluating a coach and evaluating a player are not alike. A player only has the potential to make their impact within the given set of circumstances. Had he been a freshman in 12-13, his career could look a lot different. He can't be a guy you rely on to score the ball... he would be a nice piece as a complimentary player, but IU is relying on him far too much for his current skill level. That said, no coach or player development person in America can alter a kid's brain...

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Lots seem to be obsessed with the fact that this is Crean's seventh season. This was always going to be a long term affair... hence the extended contract. It wasn't a quick fix.

 

The past is no longer relevant, though the context is important. The clock is ticking on Crean. You guys don't think he knows that? Either he gets it done or he doesn't. Either he gets it done or we wind up starting anew with another Crean-level coach. Tough decision?

[8bucks 6,370]

Evaluating a coach and evaluating a player are not alike. A player only has the potential to make their impact within the given set of circumstances. Had he been a freshman in 12-13, his career could look a lot different. He can't be a guy you rely on to score the ball... he would be a nice piece as a complimentary player, but IU is relying on him far too much for his current skill level. That said, no coach or player development person in America can alter a kid's brain...

You said.

"he's an AAU hype/athlete. He can't play the game"

You have had a little over a year to evaluate him and you have decided this.

Yet when folks who criticize Crean who has coached for 15 years and has a pretty long track record you are quick to defend.

It is OK to support Crean to the end if you want to but I think you ought to demonstrate you same loyalty to the players. The players he recruited and who after all are just learning to be young men.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

You said.

"he's an AAU hype/athlete. He can't play the game"

You have had a little over a year to evaluate him and you have decided this.

Yet when folks who criticize Crean who has coached for 15 years and has a pretty long track record you are quick to defend.

It is OK to support Crean to the end if you want to but I think you ought to demonstrate you same loyalty to the players. The players he recruited and who after all are just learning to be young men.

I agree with you... just not in the case of Troy/Stan. They have done enough to be dismissed. I respect Crean's own commitment to working with these guys, but sometimes you have to cut the cord.

 

That said, there isn't a "right" decision. Crean may be right about keeping them. Fans may be right about getting rid of them. It can go either way.

 

Crean has demonstrated in over 20 years as a college coach that he is one of the good ones. Success isn't just national championships. He is a very successful coach. Most everyone outside of the "#iubb" sphere recognizes this... how quickly we forget where we were in 2008. 

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

The status quo is fine. Finish 9-9 in the conference, maybe get to play in the dance. The rest of us is just wrong to want to contend in the conference, compete for the title. Just as long as everyone gets grades, they get their conpetition trophy.

[8bucks 6,370]

I agree with you... just not in the case of Troy/Stan. They have done enough to be dismissed. I respect Crean's own commitment to working with these guys, but sometimes you have to cut the cord.

That said, there isn't a "right" decision. Crean may be right about keeping them. Fans may be right about getting rid of them. It can go either way.

Crean has demonstrated in over 20 years as a college coach that he is one of the good ones. Success isn't just national championships. He is a very successful coach. Most everyone outside of the "#iubb" sphere recognizes this... how quickly we forget where we were in 2008.

I might have missed it. In those 20 years he has one FF and three sweet sixteens? He won conference championships twice.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Past performance is not an indicator of future success. You don't hire a resume; you hire a person.

 

Crean has done things in this program that hadn't been done in over twenty years. Twenty years. Given where he had to start, that is success.

[8bucks 6,370]

Past performance is not an indicator of future success. You don't hire a resume; you hire a person.

Crean has done things in this program that hadn't been done in over twenty years. Twenty years. Given where he had to start, that is success.

No doubt Crean did a great job on the rebuild.

He lost all that momentum though and found ourselves in another 20 year (low) position with our big ten finish last year.

I am not a Crean hater really. I honestly thought we could finish top 4 in the conference before watching us play the last three games. I am disappointed that we are likely in for another lower tier finish in the BT. The two recruits we have for next year look to be fine kids and could contribute in few years but are not likely immediate help. We need immediate help.

Crean has been great on kids and class/grades. Until the last year the kids seemed to be trouble free. Given that the only thing we can brag about now, and likely for the next year or so, is our APR score is not enough. This is a big time program where you have to be very good at a lot of things

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

The status quo is fine. Finish 9-9 in the conference, maybe get to play in the dance. The rest of us is just wrong to want to contend in the conference, compete for the title. Just as long as everyone gets grades, they get their conpetition trophy.

And send guys to the NBA ..

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Absolutely... I just personally don't believe that the answer is to knee-jerk fire the coach and hope that is the solution. I don't think it would be very smart to fire a guy based on a few instances in a less than 8 months period. Just not how you do things in big time basketball...

 

Given the current state of the program, and its stark contrast to where it was in 2008... how much time does the next guy get, comparatively? 3 years to get to a Final Four? Two years? Crean is on his fourth "real" team after not having juniors/seniors for the first 3... just wondering what is expected if there is a "next."

[8bucks 6,370]

Absolutely... I just personally don't believe that the answer is to knee-jerk fire the coach and hope that is the solution. I don't think it would be very smart to fire a guy based on a few instances in a less than 8 months period. Just not how you do things in big time basketball...

Given the current state of the program, and its stark contrast to where it was in 2008... how much time does the next guy get, comparatively? 3 years to get to a Final Four? Two years? Crean is on his fourth "real" team after not having juniors/seniors for the first 3... just wondering what is expected if there is a "next."

It is a fair question. Even with the mess at IU Crean built a championship level team in 5 years. If there is a next Crean will leave a program in much better shape. This the new guy would probably have the expectation to field a top level team in perhaps 3 or 4 years. But even if it takes him five years what hurts Crean more though is not necc getting further than the sweet sixteen in 13 but where we are today both on and off the court.

The fan base wants a banner for sure but we absolutely do NOT want to suck. Avoid sucking and you will probably be OK.