College Bball Thread

[Uspshoosier 54,846]

3 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Not ideal imo.  But you gotta start somewhere

Probably starting higher at 40 than the program has finished most years in the last decade.  Admin and DeVries don’t need to lower expectations for a program that hasn’t had back to back winning conference records in over a decade.  Program is what it is.  IU isn’t at the top of the food chain (or anywhere near it) in college basketball.  Program is going to have to grind to get to where some fans extremely high expectations are for a program with absolute crap on court results over the last 10 plus years.   

[Uspshoosier 54,846]

3 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Well, that’s not entirely true.  Definitely a cut off from the contenders to the bottom tournament teams.  

Plenty of examples of teams that were not contenders making a final 4 run.   Thats why coaches say anything can happen.    NC State wasn’t a contender a couple a years ago but got hot and found their way into the tourney and beat several contender team on route to a final 4 

[Josh 13,427]

9 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Probably starting higher at 40 than the program has finished most years in the last decade.  Admin and DeVries don’t need to lower expectations for a program that hasn’t had back to back winning conference records in over a decade.  Program is what it is.  IU isn’t at the top of the food chain (or anywhere near it) in college basketball.  Program is going to have to grind to get to where some fans extremely high expectations are for a program with absolute crap on court results over the last 10 plus years.   

This is pre-NIL thinking.  We should expect top 10 results with top 10 resources in today's college basketball landscape.  

Why should Archie Miller and Mike Woodson results impact our future expectations?

[Uspshoosier 54,846]

26 minutes ago, Josh said:

Why should Archie Miller and Mike Woodson results impact our future expectations?

It shouldn’t but the program still will have to grind and win to flip the narrative for this program which struggles were well before those 2 coaches.   Even with a top 15-20 NIL they are going to have to show improved on court results and grind to get back in the conversation despite where fans think they should be slotted in the college basketball world 

[HoosierHoopster 8,992]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

This is pre-NIL thinking.  We should expect top 10 results with top 10 resources in today's college basketball landscape.  

Why should Archie Miller and Mike Woodson results impact our future expectations?

He’s just saying DeVries and staff will have to grind — and they will in year 1.
He came into the trash pile that Woodson left, and built what looks like a pretty solid team, but obviously that’s in short order and the objective is to bring in elite players in recruiting and the portal. 
that’s not pre-NIL thinking, it’s immediate post-Woodson thinking. Woodson and Buckner f’d up the program. I’m not one who buys into the we-should-be-immediately-elite just because there’s NIL. It’s a complete re-build, every player. Perfectly “realistic@ to think it’ll take a couple years or so

[WayneFleekHoosier 52,025]

This is pre-NIL thinking.  We should expect top 10 results with top 10 resources in today's college basketball landscape.  
Why should Archie Miller and Mike Woodson results impact our future expectations?

Without question. Expectations were high for Woody when we had top 10 resources. But now the program is broken and needs rebuilding time again.

I can understand not dogpiling a 1st year coach, and we won’t, but expectations should be higher.

Now granted. Resources aren’t top 10 anymore. We might have had 2 years of being 5-10. We are down now. Maybe 15, maybe 20. Who knows. Lots of schools have really embraced NIL after our head start.
I think we are probably on that top 20-30 resources still with potential to go up if we are willing to outsmart the system, which I’m not counting on.


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[Uspshoosier 54,846]

20 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Expectations were high for Woody when we had top 10 resources

Depends who you talked to.  Having high expectations with a coach that had 0 college basketball coaching experience before he stepped foot on campus would be a major risk in a lot of people’s opinion even with top 10 resources.   Not sure the optics of the national media and other coaches in the college basketball world  had high expectations for IU.   Other coaches were pleading for IU to keep him as long as possible.  Izzo comes to mind fighting for Woody to stay.  Wonder why 

[Brass Cannon 26,106]

Year after year we saw our preseason expectations be terribly off. Usually with us being worse than predicted.  No reason to worry too much about these.  Wait till 10 games 

[str8baller 7,910]

10 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

He’s just saying DeVries and staff will have to grind — and they will in year 1.
He came into the trash pile that Woodson left, and built what looks like a pretty solid team, but obviously that’s in short order and the objective is to bring in elite players in recruiting and the portal. 
that’s not pre-NIL thinking, it’s immediate post-Woodson thinking. Woodson and Buckner f’d up the program. I’m not one who buys into the we-should-be-immediately-elite just because there’s NIL. It’s a complete re-build, every player. Perfectly “realistic@ to think it’ll take a couple years or so

I have a hard time thinking IU will be “grinding” for long. It seems kind of like a silly mindset when you look at what Cig and football are doing. It’s all about the coach. 
 

With that said, I think there is some truth to that mindset. The NIL/Portal era seems to have affected football the most, and that’s counterintuitive to me. I would’ve expected it to be basketball. But football really is a plug ‘n play situation. QB is arguably the most important position in sports and it’s exactly a plug n play spot now. It is at IU, ND, OSU, USC and everywhere in between.  
 

Basketball still seems like a situation where the best teams are at least partially home grown mixed with NIL transfers. We don’t have that this year and I expect to see Coach DD grinding it out. But the runway is really short in this era. Season 2, and no longer than Season 3, people will want to see some real success. I’m not even sure that is unreasonable in today’s landscape. 

[str8baller 7,910]

21 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Last time IU finished top 25 in KenPom in a season was 2016.   

That is a wild and thoroughly depressing stat. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 94,247]

11 hours ago, Josh said:

 

Why should Archie Miller and Mike Woodson results impact our future expectations?

Recency bias in the minds/memories.  We've watched so much bad basketball it's unfortunately become a norm.

[IUHoosierJoe 2,195]

Just a note, since I've seen numerous comparisons here of this year's team to Michigan and Louisville last year.  Last year, Michigan was #36 in pre-season KenPom, and Louisville was #64.  So, however Pomeroy computes those, we're in the same area at #40 this year, and hopefully we can have a season similar to theirs last year.  Also, we were #39 in pre-season KenPom last year.

[Josh 13,427]

2 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Recency bias in the minds/memories.  We've watched so much bad basketball it's unfortunately become a norm.

Let me be the sunshine pumper.  Them turds are gone!  The halls were washed clean.  Let's roll!

[Brass Cannon 26,106]

What did Kenpom have west Virginia to start last year?

[Uspshoosier 54,846]

16 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

What did Kenpom have west Virginia to start last year?

87 I think 

[IUHoosierJoe 2,195]

52 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

87 I think 

Yes.  Started 87, finished 53.

[Brass Cannon 26,106]

So they made up 34 spots.  Woody and Archie looked decent on paper but crap in reality. Have to hope Coach DD is the opposite 

[LIHoosier 28,427]

AP Preseason Poll, we got a singular 25th place vote. The inevitable fail starts at #1.

https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll

[LamarCheeks 22,627]

Toiletmakers No. 1 

Kelvin Sampson No. 2 

Dusty May No. 7

Thank God it's only the preseason ... 

[Demo 25,301]

 

Strikes me as kind of an interesting question. My 1st blush is Buzz Williams, but he moves too much and hasn’t really had the success to be comped that way. Maybe Sean Miller? Thoughts?