Victor Oladipo - Memphis Grizzlies

[mdn82 25,510]

And got rid of Harden. They didn't just let him walk. They saw something before that happened and basically gave him up for nothing.

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And they haven't been a true championship contender since. Still one player short.

[mdn82 25,510]

A top 10-15 player in a league should be a 6th man? I had to write that out to see for myself how ridiculous that sounds. I Harden is a little better scorer than Crawford. That comparison is just nuts. You put people around him to hide him on defense.

[BGleas 7,880]

Harden is one of the elite scorers in this league, a lock All-Star, etc. With that said, for me he's in the Carmelo Anthony category, great scorer, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team. IMO, you can't win with guys that completely disregard defense and are so ball dominant/ISO guys. 

[X-Hoosier 529]

A top 10-15 player in a league should be a 6th man? I had to write that out to see for myself how ridiculous that sounds. I Harden is a little better scorer than Crawford. That comparison is just nuts. You put people around him to hide him on defense.

You can't hide Hardens defense. Considering they had one of the best defensive big men of all time behind him... he wasn't dealing with Hanner Perea protecting the rim. It was Dwight Howard.

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[X-Hoosier 529]

Harden is one of the elite scorers in this league, a lock All-Star, etc. With that said, for me he's in the Carmelo Anthony category, great scorer, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team. IMO, you can't win with guys that completely disregard defense and are so ball dominant/ISO guys. 

I think Melo shows a bit more effort. BtownBanners could have a GIF thread to the comedy that is James Hardens defense.

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[mdn82 25,510]

I think Melo shows a bit more effort. BtownBanners could have a GIF thread to the comedy that is James Hardens defense.

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I would agree with that but the thought he should be a 6 man is nuts. You won't find many people who share your views on how a team should be constructed.

[FloridaHoosierGirl 4,639]

13 hours ago, X-Hoosier said:

Look at the numbers. The past 2 seasons he's been mediocre at best on defense.

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Watch the games!  He is put on the opposing team's best offensive player most of the time and holds his own.  When he is out it all goes to hell!  At this point on the Magic, he is not getting help on defense much at all.  He has also played huge minutes under Skiles and frankly, at the end of games, is worn out.  Numbers alone don't tell the whole story.  A lot of those statistics are subjective, we are amazed, for example, of the steals he doesn't get credit for in a game.  He is so active and making things happen when he's in there.

Edited May 13, 2016 by FloridaHoosierGirl
Add to it.

[X-Hoosier 529]

I would agree with that but the thought he should be a 6 man is nuts. You won't find many people who share your views on how a team should be constructed.

I know there aren't many people with the view. People consider him a superstar. I do not. I consider him a 6th man. If the only thing you can do is score... you shouldn't start in the NBA. He would have fit in well in the Magic Bird era though. Just throw a punch every now and then.

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[IUfan_Charlie 3,867]

6 hours ago, mdn82 said:

And they haven't been a true championship contender since. Still one player short.

I mean they're in the WCF in a stacked Western conf.... I think OKC knew that there was no way they could pay Russ, KD, and Harden. OKC is a pretty small market. 

[mdn82 25,510]

I know there aren't many people with the view. People consider him a superstar. I do not. I consider him a 6th man. If the only thing you can do is score... you shouldn't start in the NBA. He would have fit in well in the Magic Bird era though. Just throw a punch every now and then.

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Ok. How many people can score at the level he can yet defend and create opportunities for others? You act like everyone can do that. They can't. As for the previous era? Defense was far better. Plus they called travels and things like that. Just because you weren't alive to watch it doesn't mean it was a worse product. Actually since Jordan retired viewership went down until recently. Lebron and Kobe the two best players of your generation haven't drawn people in. Curry has a chance.

[X-Hoosier 529]

Ok. How many people can score at the level he can yet defend and create opportunities for others? You act like everyone can do that. They can't. As for the previous era? Defense was far better. Plus they called travels and things like that. Just because you weren't alive to watch it doesn't mean it was a worse product. Actually since Jordan retired viewership went down until recently. Lebron and Kobe the two best players of your generation haven't drawn people in. Curry has a chance.

Bird - Magic was the era before the last era. They didn't play defense other than some punches getting thrown. Defense has never been as emphasized as it is now. Real defense. Not hugging, holding, punching, shoving, tripping defense of the 90's. Actually sit down, move your feet defense. And LeBron can score and play defense. At one point Kobe could. KD and Russ can. Dwyane Wade could at one point. Klay Thompson is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA. Steph Curry is above average defensively. All it takes is some effort. Though Harden has a massive problem with awareness as well. You can be a "superstar" and only play a half of the game. The Rockets have a problem because the face of the franchise is a 6th man. He isn't a leader by any means. He is me first. He would have fit in great in the early 2000's with Latrell Spreewell.

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[mdn82 25,510]

21 minutes ago, X-Hoosier said:

Bird - Magic was the era before the last era. They didn't play defense other than some punches getting thrown. Defense has never been as emphasized as it is now. Real defense. Not hugging, holding, punching, shoving, tripping defense of the 90's. Actually sit down, move your feet defense. And LeBron can score and play defense. At one point Kobe could. KD and Russ can. Dwyane Wade could at one point. Klay Thompson is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA. Steph Curry is above average defensively. All it takes is some effort. Though Harden has a massive problem with awareness as well. You can be a "superstar" and only play a half of the game. The Rockets have a problem because the face of the franchise is a 6th man. He isn't a leader by any means. He is me first. He would have fit in great in the early 2000's with Latrell Spreewell.

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Honestly, I wrote out a very long and dickish rebuttal.  You are too young and immature to understand anything beyond what is in front of you.  You would not have understood anything I said.  Everything in your world is truth and fact.  Until you grow up while interacting with others, you will really be no fun to interact with when it comes to discussing the present, past, and future of this wonderful game that is older than 19 years.  You have 0 clue of what you are talking about in spite of your sureness of the game.  Bird-Magic era was not in the 90s.  You were wrong there.  They did not hug, hold, punch, shove, or trip in the 90s anymore than they do now due to players like MJ.  That is why there is not much difference between now and 1995 for scoring average.  As for Harden?  You keep saying he IS a 6th man.  No he is not.  That just shows your ignorance and what people complain when it comes to your responses.  You are too damn young to hold a civilized conversation.  You back nothing up with facts.  We all appreciate your opinion, but allow others to have theirs.  When they actually come to the table with facts, please to not act like a petulant child that needs to get the last word in of their opinion.  Or I am going to bend your ass over Jaybob's knee.  Just joking on the last part. 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Well posted mdn..

As for Vic, he represents himself, his family, and Hoosier Nation as well as you could possibly ask. His parents and Hoosiers everywhere should be proud of him.

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[X-Hoosier 529]

Honestly, I wrote out a very long and dickish rebuttal.  You are too young and immature to understand anything beyond what is in front of you.  You would not have understood anything I said.  Everything in your world is truth and fact.  Until you grow up while interacting with others, you will really be no fun to interact with when it comes to discussing the present, past, and future of this wonderful game that is older than 19 years.  You have 0 clue of what you are talking about in spite of your sureness of the game.  Bird-Magic era was not in the 90s.  You were wrong there.  They did not hug, hold, punch, shove, or trip in the 90s anymore than they do now due to players like MJ.  That is why there is not much difference between now and 1995 for scoring average.  As for Harden?  You keep saying he IS a 6th man.  No he is not.  That just shows your ignorance and what people complain when it comes to your responses.  You are too damn young to hold a civilized conversation.  You back nothing up with facts.  We all appreciate your opinion, but allow others to have theirs.  When they actually come to the table with facts, please to not act like a petulant child that needs to get the last word in of their opinion.  Or I am going to bend your ass over Jaybob's knee.  Just joking on the last part. 

22 years.. not 19 lol. And I know that Bird-Magic wasn't in the 90's. I never said it was. And people are always talking about how physical the game was. How you could basically play rugby on the court. "No blood, no foul." I like seeing good defense now. It is true defense. I said teams didn't play defense in the Bird-Magic era. When you look back at seasons in the 80's...

80-81: 1 team averaged 120+. 7 averaged 110+. Only 1 team averaged less than 100.

81-82: Nuggets averaged 126.5 points. 5 more than the year before. 7 other teams averaged 110+. Not a single team averaged less than 101.

82-83: Nuggets again averaged 120+. 9 others averaged 110+. 3 teams averaged less than 100.

83-84: 2 teams averaged 120+. 11 others averaged 110+. No team averaged less than 100.

84-85: Nuggets of course average 120. 11 others at 110+. No team under 102.

85-86: no team averaged 120 but 11 averaged 110+. 1 team lower than 100.

86-87: 12 teams at 110+. No one under 103.

87-88: 6 teams averaged 110+. 1 team under 100.

88-89: 9 teams at 110+. 1 team 100.

So far from 2010-11 to this season...

10-11: No teams over 110. 19 under 100.

11-12: Only 3 teams averaged more than 100. Nuggets at 104.1 was the highest. That's 27 teams under 100.

12-13: 11 over 100. 19 under.

13-14: 17 over 100. 13 under.

14-15: 1 team at 110.00. Golden State. 14 others over 100. Other half of the league under 100.

15-16: 2 teams over 110 this season. 21 others over 100. 7 under 100.

There are some stats... I'm not sure about the 90's. But defense is better now than in the 80's. I do know that.

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[mdn82 25,510]

Bird - Magic was the era before the last era. They didn't play defense other than some punches getting thrown. Defense has never been as emphasized as it is now. Real defense. Not hugging, holding, punching, shoving, tripping defense of the 90's.

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[mdn82 25,510]

Defense of the 90s... That is where you talked about the 90s.

[X-Hoosier 529]

Defense of the 90s... That is where you talked about the 90s.

And it was more physical unless you were playing MJ. You aren't allowed to touch MJ. Everyone knows that. MJ's highest scoring average though was in the 86-87 season where he averaged 37.1 ppg. He of course didn't do that in the 90's. But a lot more physicality was allowed. 80's was more showtime. Now you're seeing balance between offense and defense.

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[JaybobHoosier 11,843]

Honestly, I wrote out a very long and dickish rebuttal.  You are too young and immature to understand anything beyond what is in front of you.  You would not have understood anything I said.  Everything in your world is truth and fact.  Until you grow up while interacting with others, you will really be no fun to interact with when it comes to discussing the present, past, and future of this wonderful game that is older than 19 years.  You have 0 clue of what you are talking about in spite of your sureness of the game.  Bird-Magic era was not in the 90s.  You were wrong there.  They did not hug, hold, punch, shove, or trip in the 90s anymore than they do now due to players like MJ.  That is why there is not much difference between now and 1995 for scoring average.  As for Harden?  You keep saying he IS a 6th man.  No he is not.  That just shows your ignorance and what people complain when it comes to your responses.  You are too damn young to hold a civilized conversation.  You back nothing up with facts.  We all appreciate your opinion, but allow others to have theirs.  When they actually come to the table with facts, please to not act like a petulant child that needs to get the last word in of their opinion.  Or I am going to bend your ass over Jaybob's knee.  Just joking on the last part. 

Walk away, just walk away lol :)

[mdn82 25,510]

Walk away, just walk away lol :)

Lmao I threaten him with your knee and you are afraid something weird is going on.

[mdn82 25,510]

And it was more physical unless you were playing MJ. You aren't allowed to touch MJ. Everyone knows that. MJ's highest scoring average though was in the 86-87 season where he averaged 37.1 ppg. He of course didn't do that in the 90's. But a lot more physicality was allowed. 80's was more showtime. Now you're seeing balance between offense and defense.

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Watch some games from Pistons and Bulls series of the 80s. Or Celtics vs Sixers. Or Pistons vs Lakers. All of the 80s.