Big Ten Coach of Year Prediction

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

It amazes me that people look at least season and blame the coach. That is so easy to do; it's a lot harder to analyze why IU won 17 games. IU was something like 2-7 in 1 possession games. Some look at it and blame the coach, because that's obvious and easy. But doesn't it seem probable that players made mistakes? We were in a position to win a lot of games. The only game that was downright awful was Purdue and they shot infinitely better that day than at any other game last season. Again, these aren't excuses but rather the reality yet some only hear it as an excuse. I guess they think they are Bobby Knight Jr. or something.

 

In 2008, no one knew what would happen to IU basketball. No one knew if it would ever come back. It's not back in the sense of being a national title contender year after year, but did you expect that to happen overnight? 7 years seems like a long time but it's not even two recruiting cycles. The first recruiting cycle included quite a few bad players but I guess Crean should have coached a few more inches onto Danny Moore.

 

BGleas is correct; there's no debating what people in basketball think of Tom Crean. It seems only the down home IU folk think he's some kind of basketball dimwit. The man didn't get here by accident. We're lucky he stayed after the first year. He could have left.

 

IMO a lot of the dislike or whatever you want to call it comes from really superficial things that have little to nothing to do with coaching basketball. Things like his hair, his skin, his body language, etc. You'd have to be really stupid to factor those things in.

 

I really don't get griping about the lack of posts; this is all about the perimeter. We struggled a year ago because our perimeter players weren't Big Ten players other than Yogi. Stan was a freshman and showed flashes, but again... lost close games because of freshman mistakes. People criticize his offense but I don't know if I've seen better offense than 2011-13. Crean knows he's up against it because of the down home fans; but he usually performs pretty well in that situation. Personally, I think IU is going to be a hell of a team by the end of the season. It's one of the best backcourts in the country by the end of the year.

[mdn82 25,501]

It amazes me that people look at least season and blame the coach. That is so easy to do; it's a lot harder to analyze why IU won 17 games. IU was something like 2-7 in 1 possession games. Some look at it and blame the coach, because that's obvious and easy. But doesn't it seem probable that players made mistakes? We were in a position to win a lot of games. The only game that was downright awful was Purdue and they shot infinitely better that day than at any other game last season. Again, these aren't excuses but rather the reality yet some only hear it as an excuse. I guess they think they are Bobby Knight Jr. or something.

In 2008, no one knew what would happen to IU basketball. No one knew if it would ever come back. It's not back in the sense of being a national title contender year after year, but did you expect that to happen overnight? 7 years seems like a long time but it's not even two recruiting cycles. The first recruiting cycle included quite a few bad players but I guess Crean should have coached a few more inches onto Danny Moore.

BGleas is correct; there's no debating what people in basketball think of Tom Crean. It seems only the down home IU folk think he's some kind of basketball dimwit. The man didn't get here by accident. We're lucky he stayed after the first year. He could have left.

IMO a lot of the dislike or whatever you want to call it comes from really superficial things that have little to nothing to do with coaching basketball. Things like his hair, his skin, his body language, etc. You'd have to be really stupid to factor those things in.

I really don't get griping about the lack of posts; this is all about the perimeter. We struggled a year ago because our perimeter players weren't Big Ten players other than Yogi. Stan was a freshman and showed flashes, but again... lost close games because of freshman mistakes. People criticize his offense but I don't know if I've seen better offense than 2011-13. Crean knows he's up against it because of the down home fans; but he usually performs pretty well in that situation. Personally, I think IU is going to be a hell of a team by the end of the season. It's one of the best backcourts in the country by the end of the year.

I have to disagree with a few things here. If any organization with high expectations not just IU fails, then it falls on leadership. You talk about execution by the players, but isn't that a direct representation of the preparation from the coaching staff? I don't think he should get fired, but the kids not executing are the ones he brought in. The turmoil was again caused by players he recruited. It sucks being I charge, but he is absolutely responsible for the play on the court and their actions off of it. IMO


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[BGleas 7,880]

I have to disagree with a few things here. If any organization with high expectations not just IU fails, then it falls on leadership. You talk about execution by the players, but isn't that a direct representation of the preparation from the coaching staff? I don't think he should get fired, but the kids not executing are the ones he brought in. The turmoil was again caused by players he recruited. It sucks being I charge, but he is absolutely responsible for the play on the court and their actions off of it. IMO


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I understand your overall point, and yes ultimately in the big picture the success of the program will determine if Crean is still here. But yes, sometimes execution is the players fault. Not everything that happens is the coaches fault just because he's the one in charge. 

[mdn82 25,501]

I understand your overall point, and yes ultimately in the big picture the success of the program will determine if Crean is still here. But yes, sometimes execution is the players fault. Not everything that happens is the coaches fault just because he's the one in charge.

I think that is why we rarely see a coach fired the first time he has a crap season. Two bad seasons in a row would be hard to overcome at IU. I put a lot of blame on him both good and bad last year. If Vic doesn't improve that greatly the prior year we have Vic last year. It was obvious as soon as Cody came back he was gone after his soph season. Ultimately a lot of failure we had on the court is a direct result of the amount of turnover we have on this team. No continuity last year and to me a lot of that starts at the top.


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[BGleas 7,880]

I think that is why we rarely see a coach fired the first time he has a crap season. Two bad seasons in a row would be hard to overcome at IU. I put a lot of blame on him both good and bad last year. If Vic doesn't improve that greatly the prior year we have Vic last year. It was obvious as soon as Cody came back he was gone after his soph season. Ultimately a lot of failure we had on the court is a direct result of the amount of turnover we have on this team. No continuity last year and to me a lot of that starts at the top.


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That's a different discussion though. I agree with what you've said completely in this post. 

 

Though, I've always felt what really hurt last years team wasn't so much the youth (though it was a real issue) and roster continuity, it was the ineptitude of the 2011 and 2012 classes outside of Zeller and Yogi. In an ideal scenario, last years team is led by Yogi, Hollowell, Perea, and even Ethrington and Abel (if he had stayed), but in reality only one of those guys gave us anything at all. We should not have been counting on Williams, Stan and Gordon last year, they should have been role players off the bench, not starters logging major minutes. 

 

Losing Zeller, VO, Hulls, Watford, etc. were huge losses, but the remaining guys from the 2011 and 2012 classes should have been the replacements, not counting on basically all freshmen. The real issue is that our 2011 and 2012 classes were virtually 1-man classes. 

 

There's definitely a lot of blame for that on Crean. 

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

I'm with you on this one Shortspacequickness ! Anyone who watched the games last year has to admit we did not have a backcourt ready to play at a high level of basketball.  There was a tremendous shortage of good ballhandlers and shooting. Any Coach would have struggled with that team.  That is not the case this year! 

 

What cannot and should not happen is a repeat of last year.-- We have the talent and depth now.  I will forgive last season but this year is on Coach!   Now--let's go get W's!

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I didn't mean to imply there is no responsibility on the coaching staff; rather, there is quite a bit. But I don't expect the staff or Crean to be perfect. Like others have said, he kind of developed players too well...

 

Misses in recruiting are going to happen. It isn't like putting on that jersey makes a difference. It's going to happen, and it will continue to happen. But couple all of those things together and you get what we had to deal with last year.

 

I'm just baffled that people think Crean's seat should be extremely hot. Who in the hell are we to say you can't do such and such at IU? He's done more in two seasons than anything in a generation. Isn't that worth something? I wasn't around for the earliest Knight teams, but this program is not what it used to be. I don't know why Indiana fans can't accept that. I think removing Crean from the equation (unless you can get a Donovan, Pitino, etc.) would only drive the program further into irrelevance. JMHO.

[BGleas 7,880]

It's not what it used to be right now, but with the right leadership it can and should get back to that. If you, or the fan base and a whole, doesn't believe that then we have a problem.

Do you really think Indiana can't get back to being a top program? Look at Aabama, they see down for a long time, then they got the right coach and all of the sudden they're dominant again.

I didn't mean to imply there is no responsibility on the coaching staff; rather, there is quite a bit. But I don't expect the staff or Crean to be perfect. Like others have said, he kind of developed players too well...
 
Misses in recruiting are going to happen. It isn't like putting on that jersey makes a difference. It's going to happen, and it will continue to happen. But couple all of those things together and you get what we had to deal with last year.
 
I'm just baffled that people think Crean's seat should be extremely hot. Who in the hell are we to say you can't do such and such at IU? He's done more in two seasons than anything in a generation. Isn't that worth something? I wasn't around for the earliest Knight teams, but this program is not what it used to be. I don't know why Indiana fans can't accept that. I think removing Crean from the equation (unless you can get a Donovan, Pitino, etc.) would only drive the program further into irrelevance. JMHO.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

It's not what it used to be right now, but with the right leadership it can and should get back to that. If you, or the fan base and a whole, doesn't believe that then we have a problem.

Do you really think Indiana can't get back to being a top program? Look at Aabama, they see down for a long time, then they got the right coach and all of the sudden they're dominant again.
 

No, I absolutely think it can be dominant again. There's no question about that all things considered. Without a doubt. It's my opinion that Crean is doing a tremendous job weathering the storms on the way to getting back to being a top 5 program.

 

I'm just saying, I think a lot of people have a false perception of what Indiana basketball can do in the current landscape of college basketball. It's a work in progress.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

This brings up an interesting question. Is it harder to win now in college basketball than it used to be? Is there more parity and talent spread out due to AAU ball etc? Are there more top schools in recruiting--especially in the Midwest? Thoughts?

[TheWatShot 13,505]

This brings up an interesting question. Is it harder to win now in college basketball than it used to be? Is there more parity and talent spread out due to AAU ball etc? Are there more top schools in recruiting--especially in the Midwest? Thoughts?

 

The mindset of players is definitely different. In the 1980's and 90's, kids valued and understood the importance of higher education and a college degree. They also knew that while a coach like Knight would put them through hell and back, they would become a better person because of it. There was also a certain nostalgic element of being able to reflect on your college days and championships won with teammates who practically became family to you. 

 

 

Today, it's all about making as much money as you can, as fast as you can and as soon as you can and doing whatever it takes to make that happen. Players also want to take the path of least resistance to make their coin. This is why a coach like Knight would never dominate today; 75% of his roster would transfer every year and elite players wouldn't want to spend their one year in college getting pushed to work hard and yelled at. 

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Thanks WatShot for answering--I agree and think it has changed too.  We have become a "me first" society instead of a "team first"  society. A lot of players not only go to a college where they feel they will be the main guy--but they also want promises they will be a starter, etc.  Loyalty to the home school team  isn't as strong as it once was either..... 

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Louisville, Kentucky, Xavier, Cincinnati, Michigan, Ohio State, Michigan State, Purdue, Illinois, Notre Dame, etc. Kids from Indiana just as soon will go to those schools as well as the national powers as they will to IU... media has changed everything. People don't want to believe it, but unless you're coming from an IU family kids don't really grow up dreaming to play for IU. They dream of playing for a lot of schools. They know every school. That hasn't always been the case.

 

BGleas has explained this very well in the past but it is very true; you can go the Kentucky model, the IU model, or the Wichita/whoever model. Teams like Butler and Wichita State keep teams together for four and five years. That gives them an advantage and evens the playing field. At IU, it is much more unknown. Trying to build a team takes time and you are set back when kids don't pan out, transfer for whatever reason, get bad advice and go pro, etc. Kentucky's model just can't be done most places because most coaches aren't Calipari and have top kids basically handed in your lap.

 

I like IU's model but it is very uncertain in the current climate of college basketball. It takes that perfect storm to have a really good team. For example, if Christian Watford had taken bad advice and left after his 27 point game against UK in 11-12 then maybe the 12-13 team isn't quite what it was. Or imagine Cody on last year's team with Noah. Or Noah on this year's team. They made very good decisions for themselves but it certainly wasn't good for IU.

 

It's the job of the coaching staff to manage these things. And the only way to do that is to recruit better players. Replacing Yogi is a big question mark and finding the next great inside player is a major question as well.

[BubbleKnuts 569]

The mindset of players is definitely different. In the 1980's and 90's, kids valued and understood the importance of higher education and a college degree. They also knew that while a coach like Knight would put them through hell and back, they would become a better person because of it. There was also a certain nostalgic element of being able to reflect on your college days and championships won with teammates who practically became family to you.


Today, it's all about making as much money as you can, as fast as you can and as soon as you can and doing whatever it takes to make that happen. Players also want to take the path of least resistance to make their coin. This is why a coach like Knight would never dominate today; 75% of his roster would transfer every year and elite players wouldn't want to spend their one year in college getting pushed to work hard and yelled at.

Boom. It's not that college basketball has changed so much, it's the weak minded generation that bring NCAAB down.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Boom. It's not that college basketball has changed so much, it's the weak minded generation that bring NCAAB down.


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Good god I hope you're joking with that weak minded generation comment.


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[TheWatShot 13,505]

Good god I hope you're joking with that weak minded generation comment.


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What was wrong with it? Not to derail the thread, but this country is getting dumber and softer every year. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

What was wrong with it? Not to derail the thread, but this country is getting dumber and softer every year.

Yeah? You have the stats to prove it? Is it my generation leading the country currently?


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[All_Hoosiers 873]

Every generation has its issues. Let's not act like this is first one to not be perfect. That's all I'll have to say about that.

Back on topic: *Insert another shoutout for my man Tim Miles*


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[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Tim is a solid pick AllHoosiers----I fear Nebra$ka is starting to follow the O$U model and putting that football money to good use. Sure helps buy top notch facilities and pay more for coaches.  Come on Wilson--turn that IU football program all the way around!

[TheWatShot 13,505]

Yeah? You have the stats to prove it? Is it my generation leading the country currently?


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I'm 25, so I'm probably not far off from your generation. I just think society is getting progressively dumber and more sensitive.