Tired of the fire CTC threads

[Andrew-_-44 25]

I know this is a place for expressing opinions but it really irks me that everyone is so quick to jump on the "fire Tom Crean" bandwagon. The man brought us up from some of the darkest hours in program history and had two successful, fun-to-watch teams in back-to-back years. His players are, for the most part, extremely solid academic performers, they seemingly have good team values, and they don't run their mouths about anyone or anything, they mostly let their playing do the talking. And now, one year after losing 5 of the top 7 players from a year before that earned an outright B10 title and a #1 tourney seed, you guys are calling for his head. Yes, he certainly is not the best in-game coach, but he recruits great young men and sincerely wishes the best for them, both during their time at indiana and after. We were expected to suffer a lot from our losses last year, and clearly we did, but even then we STILL had a slight possibility of making the tourney going into our last game against Nebraska, and that is quite remarkable.

That appearance was not conceived, but the season still saw us produce another NBA lottery pick, several academic all-B10s, great games against Michigan and Wisconsin (finally) and witness a great season from yogi and the development and emergence of some younger players. This was a young team that will still be very young next year, and we truly owe it to Crean not to give up on him after just one mediocre year. Give him at least one more year before even thinking about whether or not he is on the hot seat, because he has done more for this university than 95% of coaches do for theirs.


BtownBanners

[JSHoosier 19,817]

I've already expressed my thoughts numerous times, and most of my concerns are not based on this one WTF year.  And, no, there is no way this season can be considered 'mediocre'.  It was a disaster, an unmitigated failure, a dumpster fire.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,932]

I know this is a place for expressing opinions but it really irks me that everyone is so quick to jump on the "fire Tom Crean" bandwagon. The man brought us up from some of the darkest hours in program history and had two successful, fun-to-watch teams in back-to-back years. His players are, for the most part, extremely solid academic performers, they seemingly have good team values, and they don't run their mouths about anyone or anything, they mostly let their playing do the talking. And now, one year after losing 5 of the top 7 players from a year before that earned an outright B10 title and a #1 tourney seed, you guys are calling for his head. Yes, he certainly is not the best in-game coach, but he recruits great young men and sincerely wishes the best for them, both during their time at indiana and after. We were expected to suffer a lot from our losses last year, and clearly we did, but even then we STILL had a slight possibility of making the tourney going into our last game against Nebraska, and that is quite remarkable. That appearance was not conceived, but the season still saw us produce another NBA lottery pick, several academic all-B10s, great games against Michigan and Wisconsin (finally) and witness a great season from yogi and the development and emergence of some younger players. This was a young team that will still be very young next year, and we truly owe it to Crean not to give up on him after just one mediocre year. Give him at least one more year before even thinking about whether or not he is on the hot seat, because he has done more for this university than 95% of coaches do for theirs. BtownBanners

And yet, another Crean thread. Ironic.

[Andrew-_-44 25]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="55915" timestamp="1396152688"]I've already expressed my thoughts numerous times, and most of my concerns are not based on this one WTF year. And, no, there is no way this season can be considered 'mediocre'. It was a disaster, an unmitigated failure, a dumpster fire.[/quote]
Compared to what we had 3+ years ago I'd say this season was mediocre. You can hardly expect a successful season after losing that much production and relying on one returning starter, one true big man, no outside shooting, a bunch of freshmen, and the only other player with real experience being an under-recruited swing man that came off the bench his entire career.
If JH had stepped up, we could have won 2-3 more games, but really that is the only huge disappointment of the season.


BtownBanners

[Hovadipo 55,016]

These threads are becoming a little much.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[JSHoosier 19,817]

Compared to what we had 3+ years ago I'd say this season was mediocre. You can hardly expect a successful season after losing that much production and relying on one returning starter, one true big man, no outside shooting, a bunch of freshmen, and the only other player with real experience being an under-recruited swing man that came off the bench his entire career.
If JH had stepped up, we could have won 2-3 more games, but really that is the only huge disappointment of the season.


BtownBanners

Do I really have to break it down for the 1,000th time?  Fine here goes.

 

Failing to make the NIT isn't mediocre, it's a failure.  Mediocre is making the tournament and losing in the first or second round, you know the majority of Tom Crean's Marquette career.  He also had 2 McDonald's AAs and couldn't make the NIT, when that happens you failed miserably.  This team had enough talent to make the tournament, with a 68 team field that should be an absolute minimum expectation.  Plus 3 of the last 4 teams have under achieved, but I won't get into that again.

 

Yes, this team was young but it's not an excuse.  Why?  First there was no team improvement on the year, individual yes but not as a team.  This team was the same the last game as the first.  Plus when they have 30 games under their belts the young bit doesn't hold water.  Besides, the team was young because classes haven't been balanced, which is part of recruiting so the youth is Crean's fault 100%.  It was also poorly constructed because shooters are vital to his system and there were no shooters, again that's recruiting and it's his fault.

 

It doesn't matter where the program was when he took over.  The rebuild is over and expectations shift.  It's no longer "look where we were" it's "what can he do going forward".  At IU the expectations should be to contend for the B1G every year, make the tournament every year and make deep runs contending for a title every few years.  Tom Crean has been a head coach for 15 years and his track record is no where near that, he's never established any consistency and he's only won his conference twice in those 15 years.  Aside from one year that looks more like a fluke all the time he hasn't shown himself to be a good coach.  At this point he is what he is.  Yes, he seems to get good kids and academics have been more of a focus.  That's great, it's part of it.  At the end of the day the biggest part of his job is to win, and his flaws as a coach have cost us wins in the past and will cost us wins in the future.

 

EDIT:  And before it gets brought up again, Cal/UK last year is an awful comparison.  They won the title the year before, went to the Final Four the year before that and the Elite 8 prior to that.  Cal had also been to the Elite 8 a couple of times before he ever got to UK.  He has far more equity built up than Crean does.  Where's Cal this year?  Oh yeah, the elite 8 again.

[NotTheReal HoosierHoopster 67]

We all agree Crean gets another year. By then, Crean will have made 15 million dollars. Have you made that much in seven years? I haven't.

Let's can the Crean did this out of the goodness of his heart
stuff. He wanted another challenge and to further his career and get paid.

Time to produce. Que the GlenGary Glen Ross scene ;)

[Geometry Hoosier 1,151]

Never mind.

[SilverAtlanta 69]

When the team underperforms, you can expect negativity and as you said, "this is a place for expressing opinions". If you don't like some of those opinions don't read threads that express the opinions that make you unhappy. Until then expect people to voice their displeasure on boards devoted to expressing opinions, otherwise get used to differing points of view.

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

Just a note. I understand that there are those posters who are tired of hearing it. The problem with this thread is that by complaining about it like this, you've left the opening for opposing opinions to argue exactly what you don't want to hear. Here's a idea. Instead of this thread, which is going to be about the same, do we have any posters who would like to start some threads in areas of interest to them, that would give members something to discuss besides CTC? I don't care much what its about. The OT forum is pretty much wide open area. Start a thread, history, literature, WCW, Martian style gymnastics, etc. That's one way. Another way is just don't read them and respond to the fire CTC threads. There is only so much the mods are going to due to control the nature of discussion here, and there is a large contingent of IU fans that are extremely unhappy with the coaching staff. It is going to be discussed.

 

That being said, already in this thread, some posters felt the need to respond with exactly the arguments that the OP is complaining about. Which means this thread is going to be exactly what he is complaining about. It was fair game, he opened the can of worms. Sometimes you just have to let it go somewhere.

[BlueDevil 8,655]

[attachment=673:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1396181472.130258.jpg]

Smh

[KingPG21 6,582]

It isn't remarkable that we almost made the tourney. What is remarkable is that we missed the tournament when 68 teams make it in, and that we couldn't even make the NIT

[BlueDevil 8,655]

[quote name="KingPG21" post="55959" timestamp="1396184275"]It isn't remarkable that we almost made the tourney. What is remarkable is that we missed the tournament when 68 teams make it in, and that we couldn't even make the NIT[/quote]

Essentially finishing somewhere in the 100s

[KingPG21 6,582]

Essentially finishing somewhere in the 100s

Essentially yeah. Which we should be past these kinds of years, but again it appears we are not. 

[Andrew-_-44 25]

[quote name="SilverAtlanta" post="55954" timestamp="1396180538"]When the team underperforms, you can expect negativity and as you said, "this is a place for expressing opinions". If you don't like some of those opinions don't read threads that express the opinions that make you unhappy. Until then expect people to voice their displeasure on boards devoted to expressing opinions, otherwise get used to differing points of view.[/quote]

I don't mind reading the stuff, I'm just disturbed by how un-trusting you all are of Crean, especially after people loved him up until the Cuse game. Maybe I should have titled the thing "Disturbed by the fire CTC talk" instead of "tired of..."


BtownBanners

[Gahoosierfan 272]

If TC is fired after next season, which will be a repeat of this season, no other top 30 program will go after him . He will be one of those guys that goes down to a lower level program the way Davis did. It was a mistake to hire him. I think he got hired because our AD thought none of the top names would be interested in IU after the melt down caused by AD Doninger and  Coach Davis. Crean is a recruiter and not a coach. That should be his role at some other school. We need a top guy. What about Bennet at UVA?

     I have long thought IU suffered from structural problems with governance. 9 of the 12 trustees on the board are appointed by the governor, which means they are basically political suck ups with limited ability to manage a massive university system. They would have a hard time running a hot dog stand on a good day. Their lack of ability translates itself down the line through bad management choices like Herbert and Doninger. This makes it hard to raise up the institution. Do you think places like UW, UM, MSU, etc have our level of management?

[BlueDevil 8,655]

[quote name="Andrew-_-44" post="55963" timestamp="1396185109"]I don't mind reading the stuff, I'm just disturbed by how un-trusting you all are of Crean, especially after people loved him up until the Cuse game. Maybe I should have titled the thing "Disturbed by the fire CTC talk" instead of "tired of..."


BtownBanners[/quote]

Okay but what has coach done to earn anyone's trust lately? Just a question not trying to come at you.

[LIHoosier 25,811]

Another day, another 'Fire Crean' thread.

Another day, another 'Give Crean a break' thread.

 

http://youtu.be/eZbtAFq7dP8

[schoosier 3,451]

I don't mind reading the stuff, I'm just disturbed by how un-trusting you all are of Crean, especially after people loved him up until the Cuse game. Maybe I should have titled the thing "Disturbed by the fire CTC talk" instead of "tired of..."BtownBanners

Loved is such a strong word and imo not remotely close to how I have ever felt about him. You have to add legitimate banners before that term would even be close to possible.

[HoosierSadaseci 2,258]

Essentially finishing somewhere in the 100s

Which apparently some fans seem to be okay with that...even if they did consider this a rebuilding year we should still be in some kind of post season tournament.