Do Not Fire Mike Woodson

[Scotty R 2,127]

7 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Suggest you stay out of the Do Not Fire Mike Woodson thread if you can’t handle somebody with a differing opinion

I am on your side right now and don't understand why you keep arguing with these people. They aren't changing their minds just like your not changing your mind

[TheWatShot 13,609]

2 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Maybe top coaching candidates don't want to coach here and be under the pressure of our fan base. It looks s obvious these blue bloods are having trouble hiring  elite coaches when they have openings. For the most part hiring a coach is going to be crap shoot because you aren't getting a no doubt home run hire.

 

I'll never forget people wondering how UK was going to find an elite coach when they gave up on Billy Gillispie after just two years, because who would want to coach under that kind of pressure? All they did was get the best recruiter of the modern era, and were foolish enough to get rid of him after 15 years because he suddenly wasn't getting the #1 class every season. 

[Scotty R 2,127]

Just now, TheWatShot said:

I'll never forget people wondering how UK was going to find an elite coach when they gave up on Billy Gillispie after just two years, because who would want to coach under that kind of pressure? All they did was get the best recruiter of the modern era, and were foolish enough to get rid of him after 15 years because he suddenly wasn't getting the #1 class every season. 

And now they just hired a coach who has never won a tournament game

[AH1971 1,415]

1 minute ago, TheWatShot said:

I'll never forget people wondering how UK was going to find an elite coach when they gave up on Billy Gillispie after just two years, because who would want to coach under that kind of pressure? All they did was get the best recruiter of the modern era, and were foolish enough to get rid of him after 15 years because he suddenly wasn't getting the #1 class every season. 

Lol Billy Clyde was a drunk without a contract. It wasn’t hard. But that same fan base just ran off his successor and ended up with their 5th or 6th candidate.

[HoosierHoopster 6,717]

9 hours ago, Scotty R said:

Some people wanted Archie gone after his first game

Some people had vision. :)

[Hoosierfan2017 20,745]

23 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

You ever think the reason why IU is getting the Archie Miller’s and Mike Woodson’s of the world is because the coaching retention sucks?? I’d love to hear who you think IU is going to get once Woodson is gone? Especially someone who is going to win overnight since you know, you can tell a coaches future trajectory all within a year or two…BeCAuSE NiL.

IU kept Crean for 9 years, including his first 3 years during which he was able to lose as much as possible without any criticism from the fan base. How many years should he have gotten to prevent IU from losing candidates because of “sucky coaching retention”?

[AH1971 1,415]

13 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

IU kept Crean for 9 years, including his first 3 years during which he was able to lose as much as possible without any criticism from the fan base. How many years should he have gotten to prevent IU from losing candidates because of “sucky coaching retention”?

He had a massive rebuild his first 3 years, that was universally accepted. He proceeded to win the B10 twice and go to three S16’s over the course of the next 6 seasons. He was fired a year removed from winning a B10 title after a season in which he lost his best player to injury. And this fan base thought we were getting Billy Donovan lol.

[Scotty R 2,127]

14 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

IU kept Crean for 9 years, including his first 3 years during which he was able to lose as much as possible without any criticism from the fan base. How many years should he have gotten to prevent IU from losing candidates because of “sucky coaching retention”?

By year 3 I heard a lot of people wanting him gone. Also there was a difference between the administration being patient and the fans being patient. If it were up to the fans all of these coaches would have been gone with in the first 3 years.

[Schreckbagger 620]

We’re on our 5th coach since the turn of the century….
Name another program in the country who has consistently won at a respectable level with a comparable turnover rate as Indiana in said time frame? You can’t because they don’t exist. IU has a terrible turnover rate when it comes to coaching retention. Don’t kid yourself.

7th coach actually.

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[go iu bb 5,446]

3 hours ago, Scotty R said:

Actually 6 because DD was officially the HC to end that season 

Actually 5 because DD was just an interim HC. 

[go iu bb 5,446]

3 hours ago, AH1971 said:

You ever think the reason why IU is getting the Archie Miller’s and Mike Woodson’s of the world is because the coaching retention sucks?? I’d love to hear who you think IU is going to get once Woodson is gone? Especially someone who is going to win overnight since you know, you can tell a coaches future trajectory all within a year or two…BeCAuSE NiL.

lol. Miller was hired right after Crean who IU kept for 9 years. At that point, it was a combined 15 seasons between the two coaches after Knight who were fired for not winning. IU wasn't (and still isn't) firing coaches too quickly for not winning.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,862]

By year 3 I heard a lot of people wanting him gone. Also there was a difference between the administration being patient and the fans being patient. If it were up to the fans all of these coaches would have been gone with in the first 3 years.

And virtually in every position we’d have been better off. Can’t get much worse than suck.

I think the not hiring elite coaches gig had WAY more to do with the fact the administration wasn’t going to do what all the other teams were doing with NIL before NIL. Crean hinted to this fact over and over. Blame the fans all you want again, but coaches aren’t going to take a blue blood expectation school without a blue blood budget to compete.




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[IUCrazy2 2,324]

On 8/19/2024 at 8:49 PM, AH1971 said:

EXACTLY.

Which is why it’s stupid to declare a coach a failure after 3 years if he doesn’t instantly win and win big (more so talking Woodson here). 

I just think it’s hypocritical for the Fire Archie/Fire Woodson crowd after 2-3 seasons to sit there and say they would have given all this leeway to these current or future HoF coaches who had similar or worse resumes in the same time frame. But I understand there’s a narrative that needs driven home.

But cycling through coaches every 4-5 seasons because they don’t win at a high level overnight is only going to drive this program further and further into obscurity.

I think other things than just on court results have made people be a bit more judgemental of Woodson.  I am one of those and it hasn't all been on court for me.

[IUCrazy2 2,324]

16 hours ago, AH1971 said:

We’re on our 5th coach since the turn of the century….

Name another program in the country who has consistently won at a respectable level with a comparable turnover rate as Indiana in said time frame? You can’t because they don’t exist. IU has a terrible turnover rate when it comes to coaching retention. Don’t kid yourself.

Chicken or egg.  Consistently winning programs don't need to fire coaches because they are consistently winning.

[AH1971 1,415]

4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Chicken or egg.  Consistently winning programs don't need to fire coaches because they are consistently winning.

Do the fanbases of the consistently winning programs revolt after 2-3 seasons if there isn't overnight success? If you look at the some of the programs who have surpassed Indiana in regards to elite status since RMK (Baylor, Virginia, Villanova, etc) the answer is unequivocally no. It's going to take time for Indiana to become a perennially winner again, burning it down every few years at the rate IU has been doing it the last quarter century isn't helping. 

[IUCrazy2 2,324]

Just now, AH1971 said:

Do the fanbases of the consistently winning programs revolt after 2-3 seasons if there isn't overnight success? If you look at the some of the programs who have surpassed Indiana in regards to elite status since RMK (Baylor, Virginia, Villanova, etc) the answer is unequivocally no.

 

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39780451/villanova-ad-says-kyle-neptune-return-coach

Somebody forgot to inform the Villanova fanbase of these rules apparently....

[IUFAN1976 2,750]

16 hours ago, AH1971 said:

We’re on our 5th coach since the turn of the century….

Name another program in the country who has consistently won at a respectable level with a comparable turnover rate as Indiana in said time frame? You can’t because they don’t exist. IU has a terrible turnover rate when it comes to coaching retention. Don’t kid yourself.

Only because Sampson had issues.  There is no doubt in my mind that he would still be here if those issues hadn’t happened.  The rest is history!

[AH1971 1,415]

2 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

 

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39780451/villanova-ad-says-kyle-neptune-return-coach

Somebody forgot to inform the Villanova fanbase of these rules apparently....

Let me know when Villanova is on their 5th coach in 25 years

[IUCrazy2 2,324]

6 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Let me know when Villanova is on their 5th coach in 25 years

Now you are moving goal posts.  Hopefully for Villanova's sake they figure it out quicker than Indiana.  This idea that we are more tough on our coaches than other historically high performing programs is just a fallacy.  I am here to tell you that if Villanova hires 5 coaches in a row that either get caught in a cheating scandal or fail to produce results, they will be right there. 

The guy that replaced Wright is entering Year 3 and the fans are already chanting for him to be fired and not showing up to games.  Crean and Miller both failed spectacularly at their next stops.  Mike Davis took progressively worse jobs after he left Indiana.  The lack of results wasn't because fans or the school were too quick to pull the trigger.  All of those guys had fundamental flaws in their programs.

[Stuhoo 79,420]

One thing I am sure of:

As much as many of these posts look for comparable situations, every situation is unique.