Woodson and the HT on his new roster

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

Fun with numbers

Purdoodoo
4 with most minutes shot 44% on 3.2 3PA in 21.1 MPG

UConn
4 with most minutes shot 37.9% on 5.5 3PA in 31.4 MPG

Tenessee
4 with most minutes shot 34% on 3.5 3PA in 29.2 MPG

Iowa State
4 with most minutes shot 27% on 1.3 3PA in 23.4 MPG
(note their starting 5 only played 22.5 MPG)

NC State (probably closest example to IU)
4 with most minutes shot 30% on 1.7 3PA in 22.1 MPG
(note their starting 5 only played 24.9 MPG)

IU
4 with most minutes shot 33.3% on 1.4 3PA in 28.7 MPG
(note their starting 5 played 32.2 MPG)

Lack of guard play for IU definitely played into the lackluster season but the style of play contributed
 

[IUFAN1976 2,782]

6 hours ago, Adillac said:

Maybe improved guard options this year will make the difference. 

I would love to see us play a 3 guard lineup sometimes!  

[IUFAN1976 2,782]

5 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Ballo and Galloway need to become much better FT shooters to be on the floor end of game crunch time. 

That is definitely true though!  The entire needs to improve that category 

[AH1971 1,446]

1 hour ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I would love to see us play a 3 guard lineup sometimes!  

Will see it plenty of times next season.

[DChoosier 7,857]

3 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Fun with numbers

Purdoodoo
4 with most minutes shot 44% on 3.2 3PA in 21.1 MPG

UConn
4 with most minutes shot 37.9% on 5.5 3PA in 31.4 MPG

Tenessee
4 with most minutes shot 34% on 3.5 3PA in 29.2 MPG

Iowa State
4 with most minutes shot 27% on 1.3 3PA in 23.4 MPG
(note their starting 5 only played 22.5 MPG)

NC State (probably closest example to IU)
4 with most minutes shot 30% on 1.7 3PA in 22.1 MPG
(note their starting 5 only played 24.9 MPG)

IU
4 with most minutes shot 33.3% on 1.4 3PA in 28.7 MPG
(note their starting 5 played 32.2 MPG)

Lack of guard play for IU definitely played into the lackluster season but the style of play contributed
 

Lack of guard play impacted style of play.  Any team with half a brain didn’t worry about our guards on the perimeter with Cupps predominantly not even looking towards the basket and Trey raining in threes at a 26% clip. And if they needed relief we could bring in Gunn…LOL None of us liked it but what would we have done as coaches with the perimeter play we had while having Ware and MR at the 4/5? And yes, lack of guard play is totally on Woodson and the staff for not filling a glaring need.

Against consistently better competition, ie during Big Ten season vs ooc, , MM shot 38% from the three which was really nice progress to see from a freshman.  Hopefully that continues, or even gets better, next season. It’s 110% on Woody to open things up, play the style he claims he wants to play, with the addition of the guards, Goode, Tucker and a sophomore MM. Will Woody adapt/change with the talent will be one of the most interesting things to watch this season.

[IUFAN1976 2,782]

47 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Will see it plenty of times next season.

I don’t have confidence that Woodson will do that plenty of times next season.  In his 3 years, he’s not done it plenty of times in past.  Besides having more guards, what makes you think he will do it plenty of times next season?  

[Stuhoo 79,705]

2 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I don’t have confidence that Woodson will do that plenty of times next season.  In his 3 years, he’s not done it plenty of times in past.  Besides having more guards, what makes you think he will do it plenty of times next season?  

Besides having “more guards?”

How about having far better guards. The year he had one high-level guard we were a top 20 team.

[AH1971 1,446]

16 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I don’t have confidence that Woodson will do that plenty of times next season.  In his 3 years, he’s not done it plenty of times in past.  Besides having more guards, what makes you think he will do it plenty of times next season?  

What do you mean? The back court last year was Trey Galloway, Gabe Cupps, Anthony Leal, CJ Gunn, and Xavier Johnson for half a season. The fact that anyone seriously believes that Woodson should have played MORE 3 guard sets is truly astounding. 
 

He’s going to play more 3 guard lineups this year because he has:

A) quality guards, as in multiple 

B) actual back court depth 

This isn’t hard people. Coaches run stuff tailored to their strength and personnel. You don’t put an option QB in shotgun and have him throw 50 times a game downfield. 
 

Trey Galloway would have started for a handful of B10 teams last year as a 4th of 5th option but I’m not sure Leal, Cupps, Gunn, etc crack the rotation at any other B10 school last year. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,811]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Besides having “more guards?”

How about having far better guards. The year he had one high-level guard we were a top 20 team.

But we still shot on volume from the outside at the bottom of DI. JHS was a midrange guy. What we need to see is Woodson wake up to the current century and open up the perimeter game. What he absolutely could do this season is play inside - out, use the shooters we now have on volume— not just a Kopp style shoot now and then but spread the floor with guys inside and kickouts and actions so the perimeter is, on volume, a real part of our O. It doesn’t have to be, and won’t be, a Crean-style let it rain, but unless we’re using the outside shooting as a good part of the O we will lose to the teams, especially in March, who do.

[str8baller 5,043]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Besides having “more guards?”

How about having far better guards. The year he had one high-level guard we were a top 20 team.

And still got toasted on defense by any other team with good guards who could shoot and play with pace. Are these new guards better on defense too? Better then XJ and Gallo whom they replace? 

 

We know Woody can make the tourney and get run out the gym in the first weekend. Are we expecting better than that? 

[TTT 895]

Since IU gave raise to Woodson for making tournament two seasons ago, his illustrious NBA experience, support IU gave him for this upcoming season, $6,000,000 or so NIL money, his revamped roster, and his lecture to the IU fans…I expect IU men’s basketball to win regular season big ten championship, big ten tournament championship, and march madness national championship…and I don’t care how many games IU men’s basketball lose or what the win loss record is for 2024-2025.

The championships would take care of win loss record.

[AH1971 1,446]

11 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

But we still shot on volume from the outside at the bottom of DI. JHS was a midrange guy. What we need to see is Woodson wake up to the current century and open up the perimeter game. What he absolutely could do this season is play inside - out, use the shooters we now have on volume— not just a Kopp style shoot now and then but spread the floor with guys inside and kickouts and actions so the perimeter is, on volume, a real part of our O. It doesn’t have to be, and won’t be, a Crean-style let it rain, but unless we’re using the outside shooting as a good part of the O we will lose to the teams, especially in March, who do.

It's a chicken and the egg situation. We didn't shoot a lot of volume out on the perimeter because IU didn't have good enough perimeter shooting to begin with. 10 more 3 point attempts last year is 10 less shots between Reneau and Ware. Would have been a disaster. Ballo is not a high volume post player. Rice, Carlyle, Mgbako, Goode are much higher volume guys than any lineup combination we could have used last year and will reciprocate as such regardless if IU plays two bigs or not.  

[HoosierHoopster 6,811]

39 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

It's a chicken and the egg situation. We didn't shoot a lot of volume out on the perimeter because IU didn't have good enough perimeter shooting to begin with. 10 more 3 point attempts last year is 10 less shots between Reneau and Ware. Would have been a disaster. Ballo is not a high volume post player. Rice, Carlyle, Mgbako, Goode are much higher volume guys than any lineup combination we could have used last year and will reciprocate as such regardless if IU plays two bigs or not.  

The thing is, it's not a chicken and egg situation. When we had Kopp there was no real difference in volume of 3's. And Bako was shooting 38% in conference last year but Woodson still wasn't running sets or actions for outside shots and the volume never changed.

The proof will be in the pudding, this year. You can say we didn't shoot a good volume of 3's (at least above the bottom of ALL D1 ball, lol), but this year will be the test of that. Let's see what Woodson does now. There will be no excuse for not using the perimeter this year, a lot more. I hope he does, if he doesn't, we'll lose against the better teams down the road.

[AH1971 1,446]

9 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

The thing is, it's not a chicken and egg situation. When we had Kopp there was no real difference in volume of 3's. And Bako was shooting 38% in conference last year but Woodson still wasn't running sets or actions for outside shots and the volume never changed.

The proof will be in the pudding, this year. You can say we didn't shoot a good volume of 3's (at least above the bottom of ALL D1 ball, lol), but this year will be the test of that. Let's see what Woodson does now. There will be no excuse for not using the perimeter this year, a lot more. I hope he does, if he doesn't, we'll lose against the better teams down the road.

Mgbako attempted 5 three pointers a game during the B10 season. Half of his shots were from the perimeter. That's the very definition of volume. It's guys like Cupps and Galloway who started 75% of the conference season who were low volume. They weren't low volume because we didn't run action for them, they were low volume because they either a) couldn't shoot (Galloway) or b) afraid to shoot (Cupps). There's your proof. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,811]

43 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Mgbako attempted 5 three pointers a game during the B10 season. Half of his shots were from the perimeter. That's the very definition of volume. It's guys like Cupps and Galloway who started 75% of the conference season who were low volume. They weren't low volume because we didn't run action for them, they were low volume because they either a) couldn't shoot (Galloway) or b) afraid to shoot (Cupps). There's your proof. 

It's like you're Mike Woodson's personal defender. You simply ignore that Woodson did not run sets or actions for perimeter shooting, and the team continued to shoot at the very bottom of DI ball. But you try to put that on Cupps and Gallo?? It's on the coach, his 3 years at IU have consistently shown he has his teams go inside and ignore the perimeter, and he himself has been quoted, several times, dismissing the importance of the three-point shot. You have no proof, at all, rather, you just ignore the obvious. I'll wait and see what happens this season, and if he finally gets around to having the team shoot a good volume of 3's, I'll be the first to congratulate him for waking up (Rip van Winkle).

[AH1971 1,446]

8 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

It's like you're Mike Woodson's personal defender. You simply ignore that Woodson did not run sets or actions for perimeter shooting, and the team continued to shoot at the very bottom of DI ball. But you try to put that on Cupps and Gallo?? It's on the coach, his 3 years at IU have consistently shown he has his teams go inside and ignore the perimeter, and he himself has been quoted, several times, dismissing the importance of the three-point shot. You have no proof, at all, rather, you just ignore the obvious. I'll wait and see what happens this season, and if he finally gets around to having the team shoot a good volume of 3's, I'll be the first to congratulate him for waking up (Rip van Winkle).

He doesn’t need a personal defender. Just silly to suggest that Mike Woodson needed to run more sets to free up poor shooters such as Galloway and Cupps. I’d maybe see your point if Galloway shot a lot better than 26% from 3 last year, but more shots for Cupps and Galloway and less for Reneau and Ware would have lead to an even worse season.

[OliviaPope40 6,445]

 

[J34 1,472]

One of the reasons our 3pt attempts were low, was due to Malik not passing out of double and triple teams. Very rarely did he see the pressure coming and kick it out for either an open perimeter shot, or a repost. I don't believe teams will have the luxury of doubling the post, without paying the price. 

[AH1971 1,446]

9 minutes ago, J34 said:

One of the reasons our 3pt attempts were low, was due to Malik not passing out of double and triple teams. Very rarely did he see the pressure coming and kick it out for either an open perimeter shot, or a repost. I don't believe teams will have the luxury of doubling the post, without paying the price. 

Yes and those double and triple teams came because you had guys like Galloway, Cupps, Gunn, etc sitting out on the perimeter who weren't a threat to shoot...like at all. If IU beat you by making 10+ 3 pointers you simply tipped your cap.

[IUFAN1976 2,782]

23 hours ago, AH1971 said:

What do you mean? The back court last year was Trey Galloway, Gabe Cupps, Anthony Leal, CJ Gunn, and Xavier Johnson for half a season. The fact that anyone seriously believes that Woodson should have played MORE 3 guard sets is truly astounding. 
 

He’s going to play more 3 guard lineups this year because he has:

A) quality guards, as in multiple 

B) actual back court depth 

This isn’t hard people. Coaches run stuff tailored to their strength and personnel. You don’t put an option QB in shotgun and have him throw 50 times a game downfield. 
 

Trey Galloway would have started for a handful of B10 teams last year as a 4th of 5th option but I’m not sure Leal, Cupps, Gunn, etc crack the rotation at any other B10 school last year. 

I am not just talking about last year, never mentioned that.  He has not played 3 guard lineups consistently or at all in his 3 years at IU