Transfer Portal w IU Interest

[Feathery 4,005]

31 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

News flash? You’re strangely argumentative. Woodson’s play through the post style of play, in case you missed it, had our offense completely lacking in outside shooting— we’re one of the worst shooting teams in all of DI ball.
Newsflash? Really? Get a grip. his style is to play the ball through two forwards without wing play and without outside shooting guards. It’s 70’s ball. pretty much everyone here recognizes that his “style” of play is what is killing our ability to win. If you can’t see that maybe think about why we were so horrible this year. 

His offense also got a lot of open shots that players missed or passed up on bc they aren’t good shooters in game situations. A lot of people point to the Kenpom off efficiency being around 100 as poor offense. But a lot of it comes down to poor guard play. We beat the mid majors on the schedule by a larger margin, the. IU’s offense is around 50 with the same win loss record. 

[AH1971 1,446]

2 minutes ago, Feathery said:

His offense also got a lot of open shots that players missed or passed up on bc they aren’t good shooters in game situations. A lot of people point to the Kenpom off efficiency being around 100 as poor offense. But a lot of it comes down to poor guard play. We beat the mid majors on the schedule by a larger margin, the. IU’s offense is around 50 with the same win loss record. 

Any good offense starts and stops with quality guard play regardless of the system, the style, or the pace in which you play. Bottom line. You have to have guys who can make shots. Hate to rag on some of the guys but our guards just flat sucked last year. And that burden falls on Woodson and it’s something he appears to be addressing this offseason. But this call for doom and gloom next year because of the “system” or the “style” or because “two bigs” irrespective of what happens in the portal is just lazy analysis. 

[str8baller 5,072]

2 hours ago, Feathery said:

We beat the mid majors on the schedule by a larger margin, the. IU’s offense is around 50 with the same win loss record.

Sure, but the flip side of that coin--and the bad news--is that we way over performed in the W/L dept relative to our efficiency metrics. We should've probably been in the 15-16 win range per something like kenpom. 

 

So it's easy to say blow out the lesser teams on our schedule except we almost lost some of those or were in dog fights well into the second half.  Saying we should have blown them out is like saying we should have just not got blown out by uconn, auburn and Purdue. It is what it is.  

 

So I think the point some are trying to get across is that you can land Rice, Ballo and Carlyle and jump into the top 50 in offense and defense but that may put you more in the realm of a bubble team like Oklahoma or Ohio state. It doesn't necessarily give you an offense like Arizona or uconn. Those two aren't even alike.  How some can confuse what those teams are doing with what Woody does is beyond me... especially since we played and got our butts kicked by both in the last two years.  

If the point is, Rice,  Carlyle and Ballo put us back into the realm of bubble team status, or maybe better, then I think most agree. A lot of unknown variables could still shift that one way or another, but until proven otherwise Woodys style of play isn't one of those unknowns for me.

[Feathery 4,005]

2 hours ago, str8baller said:

Sure, but the flip side of that coin--and the bad news--is that we way over performed in the W/L dept relative to our efficiency metrics. We should've probably been in the 15-16 win range per something like kenpom. 

 

So it's easy to say blow out the lesser teams on our schedule except we almost lost some of those or were in dog fights well into the second half.  Saying we should have blown them out is like saying we should have just not got blown out by uconn, auburn and Purdue. It is what it is.  

 

So I think the point some are trying to get across is that you can land Rice, Ballo and Carlyle and jump into the top 50 in offense and defense but that may put you more in the realm of a bubble team like Oklahoma or Ohio state. It doesn't necessarily give you an offense like Arizona or uconn. Those two aren't even alike.  How some can confuse what those teams are doing with what Woody does is beyond me... especially since we played and got our butts kicked by both in the last two years.  

If the point is, Rice,  Carlyle and Ballo put us back into the realm of bubble team status, or maybe better, then I think most agree. A lot of unknown variables could still shift that one way or another, but until proven otherwise Woodys style of play isn't one of those unknowns for me.

So if IU won more than the metrics would indicate, then one could argue that’s good coaching. lol. 
 

Nobody and I mean nobody is saying IU is going to be UConn or Arizona. What people are saying is the most dominant team in the country plays with 2 bigs. The arguably best team on the west coast plays with 2 bigs as well.  Those teams offenses are very good to elite. The idea that IU is going to suck bc they have 2 bigs is just emotional IU fan hate towards Woody. And I say that as someone who would have supported a change. 
 

Now for the not blowing out lesser teams. The debate point for me is X missed significant time and Cupps was starting and wasn’t ready for D1 basketball. He needs to physically develop. That made Galloway play a position he was also not ready for. It took time for Galloway to get where he needed to be in the PG role. That is why IU’s metrics sucked. Now there was an open scholarship that everyone was clamoring to be used on a guard and that’s on Woody.

The argument for Rice, Carlyle, and Ballo isn’t that will get them to a top 50 offensive efficiency and a bubble team. It’s that it’s an immediate upgrade at the PG and one wing spot. And it’s a Center that doesn’t need the offense to play through him. Which should indicate a more guard oriented offense. Which circles back to UConn playing with 2 bigs and their guards can still get to the rim without it being overly congested. UConn only had a couple good shooters on the court and were in the 90-100 range in 3pt attempts (Purdue was like 270ish, 5 more per game), averaging 8 more attempts per game.
 

Besides Mgbako IU didn’t have anyone that I felt comfortable shooting the 3 at a high volume. He had the green light to shoot it and did. I’d expect in a guard focused offense under Woody, IU will increase their 3 point attempts bc the talent will be better in that area. Also, the guards we may be getting are also far superior at the free throw line. Which has been as big an issue than 3pt shooting imo. Freshmen to sophomore development should see Rice and Carlyle both at 34-36% 3pt shooters. They are good FT shooters and that translates well to 3pt % development. 
 

I think people have pitted themselves into a corner of wanting Woody gone so everything IU doesn’t is wrong and terrible. I’m in the camp of he is back, and we are going to play a 2 big system, so go get the players that can optimize that. 
 

Depending on how the rest of the roster fills out officially, will set expectations for next year. But I want a top class so that expectations is to be a top 25 team after Atlantis and to chase a conference title. We shall see how the Big Ten rosters fill out but the top teams are losing a lot of impact. 

[IU Prof 782]

6 hours ago, AH1971 said:

I can’t physically pinpoint an exact percentage but they ran several sets a game where the ball would go into Clingan in the post and they’d run very sophisticated off-ball action to either free up a shooter or have a free lane cutter to the basket. 

This is all correct. Unfortunately,  the bolded part is the key. And that's something that Woodson has never shown any ability or interest in implementing. Instead, he sticks shooters in the corner and has them stand there for the entire possession.

UConn ran an extremely complex and dynamic modern offensive system. IU plays through the post in a 1990s sense. Two completely different animals, to the point that analogizing them is offensive to what Hurley has implemented.

[IU Prof 782]

17 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Which circles back to UConn playing with 2 bigs and their guards can still get to the rim without it being overly congested. UConn only had a couple good shooters on the court and were in the 90-100 range in 3pt attempts (Purdue was like 270ish, 5 more per game), averaging 8 more attempts per game.

 

Except UConn didn't play 2 bigs. Karaban was the 4. Completely different player and skill set than Reneau.

[tyappleg 2,967]

7 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Now for the not blowing out lesser teams. The debate point for me is X missed significant time and Cupps was starting and wasn’t ready for D1 basketball. He needs to physically develop. That made Galloway play a position he was also not ready for. It took time for Galloway to get where he needed to be in the PG role. That is why IU’s metrics sucked. Now there was an open scholarship that everyone was clamoring to be used on a guard and that’s on Woody.. 

Just addressing this point, but X played in 4.5 out 7 games against what I would consider lesser teams last year.  We sucked in all of them.  Him being on/off the court didn't really matter. 

[IUCrazy2 2,351]

6 hours ago, Feathery said:

His offense also got a lot of open shots that players missed or passed up on bc they aren’t good shooters in game situations. A lot of people point to the Kenpom off efficiency being around 100 as poor offense. But a lot of it comes down to poor guard play. We beat the mid majors on the schedule by a larger margin, the. IU’s offense is around 50 with the same win loss record. 

If my aunt had nuts....

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,935]

36 minutes ago, tyappleg said:

Just addressing this point, but X played in 4.5 out 7 games against what I would consider lesser teams last year.  We sucked in all of them.  Him being on/off the court didn't really matter. 

That's over 1/3 of those mins he's not available for? That's a pretty significant %, imo. 

I'd argue "inability to establish continuity because of his injuries" was even more detrimental then the number of games/mins he was absent. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,935]

3 hours ago, str8baller said:

Sure, but the flip side of that coin--and the bad news--is that we way over performed in the W/L dept relative to our efficiency metrics. We should've probably been in the 15-16 win range per something like kenpom. 

 

So it's easy to say blow out the lesser teams on our schedule except we almost lost some of those or were in dog fights well into the second half.  Saying we should have blown them out is like saying we should have just not got blown out by uconn, auburn and Purdue. It is what it is.  

 

So I think the point some are trying to get across is that you can land Rice, Ballo and Carlyle and jump into the top 50 in offense and defense but that may put you more in the realm of a bubble team like Oklahoma or Ohio state. It doesn't necessarily give you an offense like Arizona or uconn. Those two aren't even alike.  How some can confuse what those teams are doing with what Woody does is beyond me... especially since we played and got our butts kicked by both in the last two years.  

If the point is, Rice,  Carlyle and Ballo put us back into the realm of bubble team status, or maybe better, then I think most agree. A lot of unknown variables could still shift that one way or another, but until proven otherwise Woodys style of play isn't one of those unknowns for me.

Rice, Carlyle, Ballo, Tucker, Hickman/Conwell, TG, MR, MM 

Probably makes us the most talented team in the B1G. 

[Feathery 4,005]

42 minutes ago, tyappleg said:

Just addressing this point, but X played in 4.5 out 7 games against what I would consider lesser teams last year.  We sucked in all of them.  Him being on/off the court didn't really matter. 

Not totally disagreeing with you. I’ve said in previous posts that I never felt X was the answer. But he is a better PG than Cupps as a freshman and out of position Galloway. 

[Feathery 4,005]

15 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

If my aunt had nuts....

In today’s society your aunt could have nuts. Just sayin. 

[IH8PU 220]

1 hour ago, Feathery said:

I think people have pitted themselves into a corner of wanting Woody gone so everything IU doesn’t is wrong and terrible. I’m in the camp of he is back, and we are going to play a 2 big system, so go get the players that can optimize that. 
 

Depending on how the rest of the roster fills out officially, will set expectations for next year. But I want a top class so that expectations is to be a top 25 team after Atlantis and to chase a conference title. We shall see how the Big Ten rosters fill out but the top teams are losing a lot of impact. 

I am right there with you. I have stated more than a few times I don't like Woodson but he is here for another year and probably more. No matter how loud fans and couch coaches scream at him, he is going to play a 2 big system, that's all he knows and he knows more basketball than anyone does, just ask him. I agree with you "get the players that can optimize that".

Just think what a difference it would make with improved 3 point shooting, thus more of those taken. Improvement in free throws, they are FREE, you're wide open!!!!

Perimeter defense improvement -- I don't want to see a Penn Sate, Nebraska performance again behind the 3 point line. Guard your man!!

So like a few, maybe more, I still want to see IU win although that keeps Woodson on the bench longer. I'm old and tired of losing. Will it ever get back to RMK success, even with his down years? I doubt that will ever happen. Nothing says I cannot dream of annual March Madness without IU in a play-in game. Nothing says I cannot dream to see IU the second Saturday and beyond. Nothing says I cannot dream about fighting through January, February and the first week of March if needed to win a B1G Championship.

ALL of those things are possible!!

IF Woodson can some how do that then fine ... I can chose not to listen to his post game, pregame interview bs. I can by-pass Senior Night speeches again and I can totally ignore him ... IU winning will be NOT QUITE enough because I like seeing well coached teams.

So let's see what Year 4 brings for Mike Woodson. Let's see what this weekend brings and then Monday and Tuesday with his portal guest. Let see what happens when the IU 24-25 team meets for the first time for workouts. We will get a glimpse of what Mike Woodson has to work with and if he makes any changes in the Atlantis games against some decent P5 schools.

I don't like Mike Woodson (his attitude turned me) but I love when IU wins consistently.

[IU Prof 782]

14 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Rice, Carlyle, Ballo, Tucker, Hickman/Conwell, TG, MR, MM 

Probably makes us the most talented team in the B1G. 

I saw a recruiting star based analysis that said we were the most talented team in the B1G last year, and we all saw how that ended.

[Feathery 4,005]

47 minutes ago, IU Prof said:

Except UConn didn't play 2 bigs. Karaban was the 4. Completely different player and skill set than Reneau.

Except Karaban didnt play 40 minutes a game and the guys filling his role aren’t 3 pt threats at all. So while Karaban is a great stretch 4, they didn’t play that style exclusively. Their offense was still good without Karaban.  UConn is the standard and I’m not saying IU is UConn just the overblown  reaction to 2 bigs is just that, overblown. 

[IU Prof 782]

Just now, Feathery said:

Except Karaban didnt play 40 minutes a game and the guys filling his role aren’t 3 pt threats at all. So while Karaban is a great stretch 4, they didn’t play that style exclusively. Their offense was still good without Karaban.  UConn is the standard and I’m not saying IU is UConn just the overblown  reaction to 2 bigs is just that, overblown. 

What percentage of minutes did UConn simultaneously play two low post dominant bigs?

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,935]

1 minute ago, IU Prof said:

I saw a recruiting star based analysis that said we were the most talented team in the B1G last year, and we all saw how that ended.

So the group I listed wouldn't be? 

[Feathery 4,005]

2 minutes ago, IU Prof said:

I saw a recruiting star based analysis that said we were the most talented team in the B1G last year, and we all saw how that ended.

Roster construction is a big key to that. It’s a guards game and ours haven’t been good enough. Now add good guards to a a good front court and there could be something. 

[IU Prof 782]

Just now, btownqb said:

So the group I listed wouldn't be? 

Don't know yet, there's still a lot TBD. But the broader point is that a lack of talent hasn't been IU's biggest issue the last few years. Style and coaching has. So I'm not sure that group really moves the needle that much over prior years.

[IH8PU 220]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

So the group I listed wouldn't be? 

I think what he is trying to say is "we have heard that best in the B1G before as recently as this year with 47 stars, more than anyone and where was IU in the NCAAT ?"