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Class of '66 Old Fart

(2026) - Anthony Thompson to O$U

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1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

And I think that those that see Thompson as only looking for a payday have a little tunnel vision.

  • Sure, money is going to be a part of it. When a player who is a good student pops for IU instead of Harvard, where coach Amaker is a proven, excellent coach? That's in some part a money play too. So if Thompson is getting a few hundred thousand extra for what he perceives to be his one year in college, that's significant. That could be all the money a player gets before a significant injury.
  • Also significant? Diebler can take credit for developing Sensebaugh, EJ Liddell, and Jamison Battle into NBA forwards. Devries does not have that.
  • And, along with more money and more NBA players to cite, Diebler also has the incontrovertible fact that OSU is the home school that friends and family can get to; his home town is a two hour drive from Columbus. It's five and a half hours from Bloomington.

In summary? It's not who you 'don't get', it's who you get that matters.

All I am saying if what I have read is true and that he liked the IU program and staff better that makes someone think he chose OSU because of money. This thinking just doesn't make sense to me because you would think a player would go to a place they like and are comfortable with.

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43 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

As you said, the key is winning. That fixes a lot of issues. Cignetti has proved that on the football side. Now he's getting serious interest from quality kids. 

Our basketball side is mired in the dregs of NOT winning. Crean won some but he was manic. Archie was a doorknob, both personality- and coaching-wise. Woodson was a total s#!t show - he had top-10 talent and was lucky to be middle of the pack in conference. The kids today don't remember Indiana basketball as a winning or even quality program. Hopefully DeVries fixes that. The signs that I've seen so far show that it's a distinct possibility. His "money ball" approach seems workable at this point, but we have to see how it plays out. Winning will fix it, and the first step is not being a joke of a program. 

If you build it, the money (and kids) will come. Cignetti has shown us the way.

 

"Money Ball" approach, but with a healthy, almost top tier budget.

That's the winning formula.

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1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

DeVries will need to alter his approach after this offseason.  Either target realistic kids or up the budget

Maybe he will have to do that. Still too early in my opinion to say one way or the other his recruiting approach his a success or failure.   For me it’s more likely that fans will need to change their approach on following recruiting.   In the old days it was relationships, relationships, relationships.  Coaches put in crazy amount of time and effort with kids as they entered high school just to give the staff the best chance to land kids they want.   Staffs would recruit a kid for 4 plus years to get a kid in their program that would be seen as a building piece for the future.   Coaches knew it would be more likely a kid would stay with their program instead of sitting out a year to transfer elsewhere if it didn’t work out.   Nowadays coaches have a lot more options when it comes to building their program.  Recruiting misses are less impactful now than they were back then.   Do I miss the old way?  Yep.  I miss following a kid as a sophomore in high school and knowing if IU lands him he will be a big part of the program down the road and not worrying if he will transfer after 1 year.  That route is still available but it’s more likely nowadays you spend 3 + years recruiting a kid and him bailing after 1 year in.    Personally I’ve adjusted my way of following recruiting.  I don’t invest much of my time following out of state high school kids anymore.  Someone will eventually have to say yes to IUs NIL and staff whether it’s other top rated high school kids or transfers.  That money just won’t sit unused.  My guess is a domino effect will happen with high school recruiting.   IU will offer more money for kids holding out until the spring and will land some good kids 

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Money is the main driver imo. It is what it is. 

And that's life. I just lost my best young associate here, she was a key rising attorney on her way to partnership at my firm, but Big Law came calling and she's gone for more money. i hate it, but I can't really blame her. Would be interested to know what the money difference was here.

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1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

"Money Ball" approach, but with a healthy, almost top tier budget.

That's the winning formula.

I think roster construction is the most important aspect in coaching today. Last 4 years shows you that you can't just put a team of talented players but don't fit together and expect to win big.

 

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I think we can safely say IU has robbed Peter (the basketball program) to pay Paul (the football program) at the moment. This is probably a very good decision for the university overall and no one should complain given which sport drives revenue. However, it means DeVries will have to learn make do with less resources than any past coach.

I will not be surprised if he achieves this, but it probably means NIL for top tier recruits is out of reach right now as many in media have hinted at. DeVries will have to make do with secondary recruits and portal that fit his system which is fine.

IU simply doesn't have the money or resources to support both programs at top notch right now it appears and almost all the NIL and Rev Share money is going to football. This puts Thompson and other top recruits price out of reach right now for most part.

Its the reality in new world of college sports. Until IU has 80-100K football seat stadiums filled each week, only OSU and Michigan have the deep NIL money to outbid for both. Indiana simply does not with so much support behind football and winning more than one or two of these recruiting battles for blue chippers is not viable until football delivers even more money to athletic budget.

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11 minutes ago, Aaron said:

I think we can safely say IU has robbed Peter (the basketball program) to pay Paul (the football program) at the moment. This is probably a very good decision for the university overall and no one should complain given which sport drives revenue. However, it means DeVries will have to learn make do with less resources than any past coach.

I will not be surprised if he achieves this, but it probably means NIL for top tier recruits is out of reach right now as many in media have hinted at. DeVries will have to make do with secondary recruits and portal that fit his system which is fine.

IU simply doesn't have the money or resources to support both programs at top notch right now it appears and almost all the NIL and Rev Share money is going to football. This puts Thompson and other top recruits price out of reach right now for most part.

Its the reality in new world of college sports. Until IU has 80-100K football seat stadiums filled each week, only OSU and Michigan have the deep NIL money to outbid for both. Indiana simply does not with so much support behind football and winning more than one or two of these recruiting battles for blue chippers is not viable until football delivers even more money to athletic budget.

This is where all the evidence has been leading.  Genuinely makes you wonder how DDV feels about it.  He came to Indiana to get access to those players you can’t get at WV.  So far, we aren’t proving that to be very effective.  Dolson is doing great at his job, and I’m sure he’s in discussion with DDV about what the expectations are.  Resources have jumped at many schools and ours is steady.  Our advantage is lessened. This is what I’ve been saying for a while now.  A curious situation IUBB finds itself in. 

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CDD probably feels fine.  I doubt his resource allocation changed since he signed seven months ago.  Until I hear otherwise that’s likely the case given Scott seems to stick to his word on NIL promises.

He’s been given enough resources to build here — #10 to #20 in the country, something in that range.  More than he had a WVU, probably quite a bit more since he left there.  If he does a good job this season he’ll get more.  He’s got to impress the fans to get more NIL, and that really means Cook, Simon, Ned, Andy, and maybe a few others.

I think Scott is doing a good job increasing our NIL and allocating it.  Biggest question for IUBB right now is if CDD can be a very good coach here and make the tourney this year without much drama.  If he does that everything will start falling into place.

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34 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

This is where all the evidence has been leading.  Genuinely makes you wonder how DDV feels about it.  He came to Indiana to get access to those players you can’t get at WV.  So far, we aren’t proving that to be very effective.  Dolson is doing great at his job, and I’m sure he’s in discussion with DDV about what the expectations are.  Resources have jumped at many schools and ours is steady.  Our advantage is lessened. This is what I’ve been saying for a while now.  A curious situation IUBB finds itself in. 

If DeVries is the coach we think he is, he will work around these constraints just fine with players who fit his system such as Sisley who are not blue chippers and win big with that. The best coaches such as Painter have done this just fine.

IU has decent money, just not an infinite amount that schools with 80-100k football stadiums do. Teri Moren has had to deal with similar up and down through her career and with some adjustments appears to be on her way. 

The best way for our basketball programs to thrive is for fans to show up and cause the football stadium to need 75k seats or more seats. This goes for 8 win teams also. I have said many times us Hoosier fans are our own worst enemy and have a terrible habit of not showing up unless a team is the elite of the elite.

The situation with women's basketball is a problem every Hoosier fan needs to note. IU won 20 games last year and went to tournament, but because they were not ranked, they lost several thousand season ticket holders and now season ticket base stretches to entryway instead of nearly all main level. Iowa on other hand had similar season last year to IU and has once again sold out the whole arena.

If us as fans want to see every sport continue to thrive and money to be there across board, it means showing up in big numbers when you have a solid postseason team and not just an elite team. While all fan bases have this fairweatherness, my experience is we as Hoosier fans are particularly front running compared to pier schools for whatever reason and have the knowledge to say this with relative certainty. 

Loyalty will need to run deeper for this to work and it means not going down to 35-40k fans a game in football if IU wins 8 games a yr as happened towards end of Mallory era. Until Hoosier fans change their behavior to support good and not great teams as other schools do, the administration is rightfully going to be leery to add many more seats to the football stadium.

Its time for all IU sports fans to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they can support a yearly postseason squad that is not highly ranked? Until the answer is an unequivocal yes from more casual followers, the school will lag behind many in the Big Ten money wise with peaks and valleys in performance as we see now across many programs at IU.  

I am not talking to diehards on this board, but this is the bottom line. Until casual IU fans change their behavior to match similar schools when it comes to support and attendance, the money is going to be behind others in conference.

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Probably some chicken or the egg here... it's a lot easier to support a team that's having a down year or two when the program has a recent history of winning. IU has not had that in either major sport for decades.

The good news is Cig just signed an extension and DDV seems like a very capable CBB coach. So both programs should be operating at a much higher standard for a sustained period soon.

When it all clicks, hopefully a sleeping giant with plenty of money is awakened. Until then... the staffs will continue grinding it out and making the most of the resources we do have (not like we're the little sisters of the poor).

It's not a realistic ask to get casual fans to change their behavior for a program(s) that's not winning. Football has turned the corner. Let's hope basketball does the same. I don't think it will take much for grassroots support to tick up, but people need to see it to believe it most of the time.

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2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I don’t really care.  No reason to give a huge payday to a kid who has yet proven he can play at the college level.  
 

Rather spend our money on Transfers 

Save up the money for football transfers, imo. We have a national title level football coach. To sustain it he needs all the money he can get. No reason to pay money toward a basketball program that has stunk for the great part of the last quarter century. If Devries exceeds expectations then we can talk about allocating some to basketball, but football needs everything right now imo. 

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5 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Probably some chicken or the egg here... it's a lot easier to support a team that's having a down year or two when the program has a recent history of winning. IU has not had that in either major sport for decades.

The good news is Cig just signed an extension and DDV seems like a very capable CBB coach. So both programs should be operating at a much higher standard for a sustained period soon.

When it all clicks, hopefully a sleeping giant with plenty of money is awakened. Until then... the staffs will continue grinding it out and making the most of the resources we do have (not like we're the little sisters of the poor).

It's not a realistic ask to get casual fans to change their behavior for a program(s) that's not winning. Football has turned the corner. Let's hope basketball does the same. I don't think it will take much for grassroots support to tick up, but people need to see it to believe it most of the time.

There is no "Chicken and Egg" here with fans. The casual fans at IU have been their own worst enemy far more so than at most other equivalent programs.

IU was a bowl team consistently every year for a decade and stopped showing up later in era. That is a big part of what tanked the Mallory era. If the 50k that showed up in the late 80's continued in the early 90's Mallory would have retired rather than being fired. No other program had fan attendance drop off the way IU did despite winning seasons throughout early 90's.

IU Fans will have to prove this Mallory era has taught us something. Whether football is the next 'emerging super power' as Cignetti claims or the next Iowa under Ferentz, fans will have to show they can fill Memorial Stadium in either scenario. While Hawkeye fans may grumble about Ferentz at times, they still show up across the board and sellout every week. Whether Cignetti makes us the next Ohio State or Iowa, fans will have to show up similarly in big numbers and so far I am not sold our supporters will support anything but an Ohio State level program. Fan bases' casuals will need to prove to the administration they are better then in the past and early returns from women's basketball after nearly a decade of success show little has changed.

Hopefully football being football will be different, but until our fan base becomes less front runner and matches others, this will always be a concerned in the back of many peoples mind in the administration.  

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32 minutes ago, Aaron said:

If DeVries is the coach we think he is, he will work around these constraints just fine with players who fit his system such as Sisley who are not blue chippers and win big with that. The best coaches such as Painter have done this just fine.

IU has decent money, just not an infinite amount that schools with 80-100k football stadiums do. Teri Moren has had to deal with similar up and down through her career and with some adjustments appears to be on her way. 

The best way for our basketball programs to thrive is for fans to show up and cause the football stadium to need 75k seats or more seats. This goes for 8 win teams also. I have said many times us Hoosier fans are our own worst enemy and have a terrible habit of not showing up unless a team is the elite of the elite.

The situation with women's basketball is a problem every Hoosier fan needs to note. IU won 20 games last year and went to tournament, but because they were not ranked, they lost several thousand season ticket holders and now season ticket base stretches to entryway instead of nearly all main level. Iowa on other hand had similar season last year to IU and has once again sold out the whole arena.

If us as fans want to see every sport continue to thrive and money to be there across board, it means showing up in big numbers when you have a solid postseason team and not just an elite team. While all fan bases have this fairweatherness, my experience is we as Hoosier fans are particularly front running compared to pier schools for whatever reason and have the knowledge to say this with relative certainty. 

Loyalty will need to run deeper for this to work and it means not going down to 35-40k fans a game in football if IU wins 8 games a yr as happened towards end of Mallory era. Until Hoosier fans change their behavior to support good and not great teams as other schools do, the administration is rightfully going to be leery to add many more seats to the football stadium.

Its time for all IU sports fans to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they can support a yearly postseason squad that is not highly ranked? Until the answer is an unequivocal yes from more casual followers, the school will lag behind many in the Big Ten money wise with peaks and valleys in performance as we see now across many programs at IU.  

I am not talking to diehards on this board, but this is the bottom line. Until casual IU fans change their behavior to match similar schools when it comes to support and attendance, the money is going to be behind others in conference.

Indiana has to compete with more options than Iowa.  Quite a bit of our alumni base is in Indianapolis and Chicago.  You have a football program that got good and is cashing in, which means it is more expensive to support them.  The Colts just got better.  The Pacers went to the finals last year.  You got Caitlin mania that is in Indy now.  You still have the basketball program.  Chicago has a bunch of professional teams as well.  It is a much more competitive sports environment in Indiana and in the cities where we drop quite a bit of our alumni base.

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5 minutes ago, Aaron said:

There is no "Chicken and Egg" here with fans. The casual fans at IU have been their own worst enemy far more so than at most other equivalent programs.

IU was a bowl team consistently every year for a decade and stopped showing up later in era. That is a big part of what tanked the Mallory era. If the 50k that showed up in the late 80's continued in the early 90's Mallory would have retired rather than being fired. No other program had fan attendance drop off the way IU did despite winning seasons throughout early 90's.

IU Fans will have to prove this Mallory era has taught us something. Whether football is the next 'emerging super power' as Cignetti claims or the next Iowa under Ferentz, fans will have to show they can fill Memorial Stadium in either scenario. While Hawkeye fans may grumble about Ferentz at times, they still show up across the board and sellout every week. Whether Cignetti makes us the next Ohio State or Iowa, fans will have to show up similarly in big numbers and so far I am not sold our supporters will support anything but an Ohio State level program. Fan bases' casuals will need to prove to the administration they are better then in the past and early returns from women's basketball after nearly a decade of success show little has changed.

Hopefully football being football will be different, but until our fan base becomes less front runner and matches others, this will always be a concerned in the back of many peoples mind in the administration.  

Those last 3 Mallory years stunk. Hell yes we stopped showing up. The game was shifting quickly in the early/mid 90s and Mallory didn’t adjust. His style ran its course and it was boring AF. It was time but IU didn’t have a great plan and just didn’t care it seems. 

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Just now, IUCrazy2 said:

Indiana has to compete with more options than Iowa.  Quite a bit of our alumni base is in Indianapolis and Chicago.  You have a football program that got good and is cashing in, which means it is more expensive to support them.  The Colts just got better.  The Pacers went to the finals last year.  You got Caitlin mania that is in Indy now.  You still have the basketball program.  Chicago has a bunch of professional teams as well.  It is a much more competitive sports environment in Indiana and in the cities where we drop quite a bit of our alumni base.

That is totally fair, but Indiana has by far the largest IU fan base with 200k alone around Indianapolis. That is more than enough to fill a 75k football stadium weekly. OSU, Michigan, and Wisconsin compete with similar sports menu and still filled the stadium for years with less than perfect results.

The main reason the Mallory era fell apart while Alvarez started two decades of solid winning, is Wisconsin supported their winning teams throughout his tenure while IU did not with Mallory at end. Proof will be in pudding whether an Iowa like type program created by Cignetti can sustain the support of other pier schools. Until we see it, the administration will be leery to make football stadium bigger and IU will be behind money wise.

Again not talking to those on board and diehards, but until casual IU fans change their front running behavior to match other big ten schools, anything less then Cignetti and DeVries building an Ohio State and Michigan State respectively is a risky proposition to sustain at Indiana. This is where the problem with IU in general and money as a whole becomes relevant relative to other conference piers.   

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9 minutes ago, Victor said:

Those last 3 Mallory years stunk. Hell yes we stopped showing up. The game was shifting quickly in the early/mid 90s and Mallory didn’t adjust. His style ran its course and it was boring AF. It was time but IU didn’t have a great plan and just didn’t care it seems. 

Last 2 yrs in part stunk because winning teams in 1991, 1993, and 1994 drew 35k. IU was not invited to a bowl game in 94 precisely because of the fair weatherness of the last few seasons.

The drop off the last two years was a direct result of the administration pulling support after seeing fans not supporting winning teams as any other schools would in 1991-1994. Fans will have to prove that a 91-94 run can sell out now like any other school would. If it doesn't, expect a massive drop off that was seen in 95 and 96.

The 91-94 attendance was unacceptable for any school who wants to sustain a good football program and would happen in few other places. If fans show a 91-94 like run under Cignetti produces sellouts now rather than 35k at most, things will have changed. Until then, administration will worry about making the football stadium the size needed to compete with other schools revenue wise. 

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2 minutes ago, Aaron said:

There is no "Chicken and Egg" here with fans. The casual fans at IU have been their own worst enemy far more so than at most other equivalent programs.

IU was a bowl team consistently every year for a decade and stopped showing up later in era. That is a big part of what tanked the Mallory era. If the 50k that showed up in the late 80's continued in the early 90's Mallory would have retired rather than being fired. No other program had fan attendance drop off the way IU did despite winning seasons throughout early 90's.

IU Fans will have to prove this Mallory era has taught us something. Whether football is the next 'emerging super power' as Cignetti claims or the next Iowa under Ferentz, fans will have to show they can fill Memorial Stadium in either scenario. While Hawkeye fans may grumble about Ferentz at times, they still show up across the board and sellout every week. Whether Cignetti makes us the next Ohio State or Iowa, fans will have to show up similarly in big numbers and so far I am not sold our supporters will support anything but an Ohio State level program. Fan bases' casuals will need to prove to the administration they are better then in the past and early returns from women's basketball after nearly a decade of success show little has changed.

Hopefully football being football will be different, but until our fan base becomes less front runner and matches others, this will always be a concerned in the back of many peoples mind in the administration.  

Respectfully, Mallory never won 9 games at IU. Why would fans keep showing up when he never strung together more success than 2 back to back 8 win seasons and his tenure ended with a fizzle?

If anything, that shows the fanbase can support a team even during 8 win seasons like you said in a previous post. The Mallory era was not exactly exciting, even if it was better than IUFB historically at that time. Don't see the relevance of women's college basketball in this conversation. That's hardly a draw for even diehard fans. Sorry but it's true. And why would we expect that to look different, especially when we haven't sustained success at a high level there either? 

The question of fan support is a fair one and I'm also skeptical it's strong enough at this point to justify more football seating. But IMO it's not a matter of fans needing to prove to the admin "they are better than in the past." It's a matter of, can IU give fans something to believe in? The answer to that in football is absolutely yes. Unprecedented success. Need to sustain it. That's when behaviors will change.

We will see if/how/to what extent that transforms the football program and the AD's capacity to grow revenue. 

People won't just have an epiphany and start prioritizing IU sports, especially if they don't compete at a high level. They haven't in a long time until now. It's on IU to win back the hearts and minds of fans. Then they will vote with their feet. Good news is, looks like football and basketball have coaches capable of exciting the fanbase because they can win at a higher standard than we have in recent history/ever.

Now the admin needs to figure out how to sustain momentum and capitalize. Not an easy job. But I admire that Scott is investing heavily in football, taking the long term view of what's best for the athletic department. If things go according to plan, he will be a huge figure in IU history. 

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26 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Respectfully, Mallory never won 9 games at IU. Why would fans keep showing up when he never strung together more success than 2 back to back 8 win seasons and his tenure ended with a fizzle?

If anything, that shows the fanbase can support a team even during 8 win seasons like you said in a previous post. The Mallory era was not exactly exciting, even if it was better than IUFB historically at that time. Don't see the relevance of women's college basketball in this conversation. That's hardly a draw for even diehard fans. Sorry but it's true. And why would we expect that to look different, especially when we haven't sustained success at a high level there either? 

The question of fan support is a fair one and I'm also skeptical it's strong enough at this point to justify more football seating. But IMO it's not a matter of fans needing to prove to the admin "they are better than in the past." It's a matter of, can IU give fans something to believe in? The answer to that in football is absolutely yes. Unprecedented success. Need to sustain it. That's when behaviors will change.

We will see if/how/to what extent that transforms the football program and the AD's capacity to grow revenue. 

People won't just have an epiphany and start prioritizing IU sports, especially if they don't compete at a high level. They haven't in a long time until now. It's on IU to win back the hearts and minds of fans. Then they will vote with their feet. Good news is, looks like football and basketball have coaches capable of exciting the fanbase because they can win at a higher standard than we have in recent history/ever.

Now the admin needs to figure out how to sustain momentum and capitalize. Not an easy job. But I admire that Scott is investing heavily in football, taking the long term view of what's best for the athletic department. If things go according to plan, he will be a huge figure in IU history. 

I don't totally disagree with much of this, but fans will have to show they can sell out with a constant 8-9 win team as other programs do. Until this happens, it is hard to sustain success. A good early test will be whether the team can sell out their non-conference games next yr like everyone else does who wins at this level regardless of opponent. 

Again, this is not a diehard fan issue, but one with the casuals who are far less supportive across board than other schools fans of similar stature.

I was with a casual IU fans this weekend who attended several women's games during the three best years and went to none last year and had no idea what happened. I have a friend in Iowa who is friends with Iowa fans and they still followed the women's team after last year to same level as Caitlin Clark era as well as all Iowa sports. This guy I was with made it imminently clear he is all in on football and expects to be Ohio State more or less going forward. I am skeptical he would follow a 7-9 win team.

While this guy was not representative of everyone, the attendance over different scenarios of success over the years across the board tells me far to many think like him compared to other fan bases. Not a criticism necessarily of him or others like him, but evidence points to a far bigger number of these type of people than you would like and its why stadium expansion remains a controversial topic and money continues to lag behind peers. 

Supposedly IU has largest living alumni base in world. While this is likely, true, sometimes the quality not the quantity is what matters and when it comes to quality, IU fans do not have the loyalty of others at times. I don't blame them given the mess Indiana has been across board everywhere but this is what IU is up against.

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30 minutes ago, Aaron said:

That is totally fair, but Indiana has by far the largest IU fan base with 200k alone around Indianapolis. That is more than enough to fill a 75k football stadium weekly. OSU, Michigan, and Wisconsin compete with similar sports menu and still filled the stadium for years with less than perfect results.

The main reason the Mallory era fell apart while Alvarez started two decades of solid winning, is Wisconsin supported their winning teams throughout his tenure while IU did not with Mallory at end. Proof will be in pudding whether an Iowa like type program created by Cignetti can sustain the support of other pier schools. Until we see it, the administration will be leery to make football stadium bigger and IU will be behind money wise.

Again not talking to those on board and diehards, but until casual IU fans change their front running behavior to match other big ten schools, anything less then Cignetti and DeVries building an Ohio State and Michigan State respectively is a risky proposition to sustain at Indiana. This is where the problem with IU in general and money as a whole becomes relevant relative to other conference piers.   

Another thing IU fans/Alumni can do is to try to get your companies to become corporate sponsors.  I am sure the sponsor level has gone up but from 2016-2022 the company I worked for supported IU this way.  We paid ~ $250k/yr and got 4 tix to all football and 8 basketball games plus some extra events.  I had trouble taking people to football games back then and basketball was not much better so I am sure the pricing has gone up.  But we got really good PR, in game program, on screens, I got to do the game ball thing, did a quick interview each year with someone from the radio team for a quick commercial promo.  It was well worth the $250k.

If anyone has an interest let me know and I can connect you with the guy who runs this.

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