Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[HoosierHoopster 6,680]

3 hours ago, AH1971 said:

We didn't shoot a lot of 3's the last two years because we had one player in the lineup each of those years capable of making 3's on any kind of volume. Purdue played through the post with two bigs on the court last year and still shot a lot of 3's because they had three players on the perimeter capable of making a high volume number of 3 point shots. This isn't hard to understand. Nobody played through the post more than Purdue last year. 

That’s just false. We have shot by numbers at the bottom of Div I every year under Woodson. Not, not that many, it’s not, not that many - it’s bottom of all Div I ball. You just make excuses. This is what Woodson has been, a coach who insists on playing through the post. He’s been quoted saying he doesn’t consider the 3 ball that important. What’s not hard to understand is that he has deliberately ignored the arc. What the question now is, is whether he’ll change that approach now that there’s no question we have ample outside shooting. And btw, Bako can shoot. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,680]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

And who were supposed to be our volume three point shooters last season?

1. Mgbako
2. ...??
3. ...??
4. ...??

The roster construction sucked big-time. Adding Goode, Carlyle, Hatton, and hopefully Rice as players that at a minimum at least need to be guarded at the three point line was critical.

Doesn’t work Stu. No excuse for bottom of all DI ball, that’s ridiculous. 

[AH1971 1,415]

25 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

That’s just false. We have shot by numbers at the bottom of Div I every year under Woodson. Not, not that many, it’s not, not that many - it’s bottom of all Div I ball. You just make excuses. This is what Woodson has been, a coach who insists on playing through the post. He’s been quoted saying he doesn’t consider the 3 ball that important. What’s not hard to understand is that he has deliberately ignored the arc. What the question now is, is whether he’ll change that approach now that there’s no question we have ample outside shooting. And btw, Bako can shoot. 

What is false? That IU lacked 3 point shooters last year? Tell me where I’m wrong? Mgbako was a solid shooter and attempted 153 three’s as a freshman, 2nd most of any freshman in the conference. But who else on the team should have been shooting more three’s last year? Whatever nonsense retort you’re about to send, I could easily make the argument the team should have actually been shooting less. The idea that Galloway, Gunn, etc should have been shooting more from the perimeter is just flat out absurd. 
 

And I love how you continue to dodge the notion that Purdue played through the post every time down last season, as if playing through the post is some forbidden or unwritten rule. I’m guessing you don’t even know what “playing through the post” means, it most certainly doesn’t mean whatever you’re implying.

[AH1971 1,415]

23 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Doesn’t work Stu. No excuse for bottom of all DI ball, that’s ridiculous. 

Answer the question. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,680]

37 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

What is false? That IU lacked 3 point shooters last year? Tell me where I’m wrong? Mgbako was a solid shooter and attempted 153 three’s as a freshman, 2nd most of any freshman in the conference. But who else on the team should have been shooting more three’s last year? Whatever nonsense retort you’re about to send, I could easily make the argument the team should have actually been shooting less. The idea that Galloway, Gunn, etc should have been shooting more from the perimeter is just flat out absurd. 
 

And I love how you continue to dodge the notion that Purdue played through the post every time down last season, as if playing through the post is some forbidden or unwritten rule. I’m guessing you don’t even know what “playing through the post” means, it most certainly doesn’t mean whatever you’re implying.

The only guy here dodging anything is you. There are numerous college teams with mediocre outside shooting who shot far more on volume than IU, because, news flash to Woodson’s (apparently your) 70’s bball mindset, more 3’s almost always beats more 2’s because, golly, basic math. Why don’t you look up how many shots PU took since you’re so enamored of PU-Edey ball (the guy who B1G refs allowed to elbow everyone down). Your argument is dead in the water. I don’t know what playing through the post means?? Yeah, you’re a joke. Count me out of further meaningless discussion witb you. Life’s too short.

[AH1971 1,415]

8 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

The only guy here dodging anything is you. There are numerous college teams with mediocre outside shooting who shot far more on volume than IU, because, news flash to Woodson’s (apparently your) 70’s bball mindset, more 3’s almost always beats more 2’s because, golly, basic math. Why don’t you look up how many shots PU took since you’re so enamored of PU-Edey ball (the guy who B1G refs allowed to elbow everyone down). Your argument is dead in the water. I don’t know what playing through the post means?? Yeah, you’re a joke. Count me out of further meaningless discussion witb you. Life’s too short.

Dodge and attack. Typical but expected.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,754]

Woody didn’t shoot enough 3s or crash the offensive glass. Maybe we should have done more of both. We were one of the biggest teams in the country 3-5. We were also one of the softest teams. Missed 3s are offensively rebounded at a much higher rate than the crap we were trying to do.

Just an overall frustrating team that did a lot wrong. Woody hamstrung himself with talent evaluation and recruiting. But I still wonder what it could have looked like a different, more free philosophy from a hungry team that crashed the glass.

CJ Gunn, Cupps, Xavier Johnson all missed evaluations by our staff to contribute what we needed from them. Crazy to miss that much. 2 of the guys are in the gym with them every day. Stunning.


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[AH1971 1,415]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

CJ Gunn, Cupps, Xavier Johnson all missed evaluations by our staff to contribute what we needed from them. Crazy to miss that much. 2 of the guys are in the gym with them every day. Stunning.

Cupps was a true freshman who played way too much out of necessity. Way too early to make that call for Gabe. Similarly to Gunn who just didn’t progress fast enough from freshman to sophomore year. Staff messed up not getting a lead/ball dominant guard in the portal last offseason. That issue has been addressed and then some this offseason.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,754]

Cupps was a true freshman who played way too much out of necessity. Way too early to make that call for Gabe. Similarly to Gunn who just didn’t progress fast enough from freshman to sophomore year. Staff messed up not getting a lead/ball dominant guard in the portal last offseason. 

Cupps long term might be ok but I watched 10 games of his from HS and told the board he wasn’t ready to meaningfully contribute as a Freshman. And people kept coming at me with Braden Smith comparisons. My point was/is Cupps shouldn’t have even played last season and him getting 20 minutes means he was over evaluated too.

Staff messed up everywhich way from Sunday. Gunn kept shooting jumpers where he would never square up prior to shooting. That never got corrected. We let Bates walk, who wasn’t great but FAR better than Gunn. We were supposedly going after Reeves which would have been huge but to not get him and rely on Cupps, X, Gunn was a failure from jump.

It’s whatever, but all the Woody Crodies saying we couldn’t get good guards because of X and Gallo just aren’t serious people.




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[AH1971 1,415]

7 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Cupps long term might be ok but I watched 10 games of his from HS and told the board he wasn’t ready to meaningfully contribute as a Freshman. And people kept coming at me with Braden Smith comparisons. My point was/is Cupps shouldn’t have even played last season and him getting 20 minutes means he was over evaluated too.

Staff messed up everywhich way from Sunday. Gunn kept shooting jumpers where he would never square up prior to shooting. That never got corrected. We let Bates walk, who wasn’t great but FAR better than Gunn. We were supposedly going after Reeves which would have been huge but to not get him and rely on Cupps, X, Gunn was a failure from jump.

It’s whatever, but all the Woody Crodies saying we couldn’t get good guards because of X and Gallo just aren’t serious people.




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Right, which is why I said Cupps played out of necessity. I’m guessing the future outlook on Cupps is different had he only played 9-10 mpg which I’m sure was the goal at the start of the season.

To your last paragraph, I agree with you. But how many people have actually said this? A handful? Woodson very clearly tried to get guys like Love, Dingle, Knecht, etc just didn’t happen. 

[IUFAN1976 2,746]

8 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Right, which is why I said Cupps played out of necessity. I’m guessing the future outlook on Cupps is different had he only played 9-10 mpg which I’m sure was the goal at the start of the season.

To your last paragraph, I agree with you. But how many people have actually said this? A handful? Woodson very clearly tried to get guys like Love, Dingle, Knecht, etc just didn’t happen. 

It didn’t happen because Woody failed!  But he done his job!  LMAO!

[IUFAN1976 2,746]

8 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Cupps long term might be ok but I watched 10 games of his from HS and told the board he wasn’t ready to meaningfully contribute as a Freshman. And people kept coming at me with Braden Smith comparisons. My point was/is Cupps shouldn’t have even played last season and him getting 20 minutes means he was over evaluated too.

Staff messed up everywhich way from Sunday. Gunn kept shooting jumpers where he would never square up prior to shooting. That never got corrected. We let Bates walk, who wasn’t great but FAR better than Gunn. We were supposedly going after Reeves which would have been huge but to not get him and rely on Cupps, X, Gunn was a failure from jump.

It’s whatever, but all the Woody Crodies saying we couldn’t get good guards because of X and Gallo just aren’t serious people.




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We recruited over Gallo this year and I think he would have been ok with it last year too!  That was just an excuse used by the Woody fan club, lol!  Personally, I think Woody and staff gave up because Woody’s attitude is, if you don’t want to play for me or IU, I don’t want you!  He didn’t seal the deal!

[Stuhoo 79,256]

48 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

We recruited over Gallo this year and I think he would have been ok with it last year too!  That was just an excuse used by the Woody fan club, lol!  Personally, I think Woody and staff gave up because Woody’s attitude is, if you don’t want to play for me or IU, I don’t want you!  He didn’t seal the deal!

I really don't think Woody was afraid to "recruit over" anyone with our guards last year. 

Instead, I think Woody vastly overestimated the abilities of the guards he had, and suffered because of that.

[iu eyedoc 1,782]

12 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Dodge and attack. Typical but expected.

There is no excuse, no explanation, no reasoning that could ever justify IU  occupying this territory  among not a single other power 5 school. The shooters were Woodrow's, the coaching and training was Woodrow's, the game plan was Woodrow's.

His off season laziness resulted in what was seen last season, has he changed his ways after last seasons disaster?  Short term it seems so, but I doubt he had an epiphany at 66 years old that he will now be a tireless recruiter every off season. 

[AH1971 1,415]

3 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

There is no excuse, no explanation, no reasoning that could ever justify IU  occupying this territory  among not a single other power 5 school. The shooters were Woodrow's, the coaching and training was Woodrow's, the game plan was Woodrow's.

Still haven't answered the question. Who else did you want attempting more 3's? Galloway? Gunn? Galloway shooting 200 3's vs 100 3's is a better formula for winning? I'd love to hear the analysis behind that. 

[iu eyedoc 1,782]

43 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Still haven't answered the question. Who else did you want attempting more 3's? Galloway? Gunn? Galloway shooting 200 3's vs 100 3's is a better formula for winning? I'd love to hear the analysis behind that. 

Hard to say when you just repeatedly play a stagnant offense determined to pound it in the paint. Funny when you try to get shooters open with clean looks vs late desperation shot clock 3's, things change percentage wise. 

IU was awful at 3pt% but still 78 positions higher than their volume ranking. The only teams among the 271 schools to shoot less 3's with equal or better % were Texas State and Jackson state. Who else did you want attempting more 3's?

 

Not sure why you are surprised a team that ignored the 3 pt shot as a weapon would be bad at it. You reap what you sow.

Here is a list of the lowest ranking teams shooting the 3 as a % of all shots. Strangely a very similar list as those that shoot low volume and bad percentage and again, no other major program other than IU in sight.

As far as questions are concerned, please give even a single good reason Woodrow has been unable to recruit or bring in via portal, a single good 3 pt shooter in the three offseasons prior.

If Miles Rice continues to shoot 27.5% from 3 next season or Carlyle continues his sub par 3 pt shooting are you going to be exclaiming,   " Who else did you want attempting more 3's? " like a good Woodrow apologist?

 

I mean sure no one is expecting him to hang with Tarleton State, but...

[AH1971 1,415]

2 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Hard to say when you just repeatedly play a stagnant offense determined to pound it in the paint. Funny when you try to get shooters open with clean looks vs late desperation shot clock 3's, things change percentage wise. 

IU was awful at 3pt% but still 78 positions higher than their volume ranking. The only teams among the 271 schools to shoot less 3's with equal or better % were Texas State and Jackson state.

Not sure why you are surprised a team that ignored the 3 pt shot as a weapon would be bad at it.

Here is a list of the lowest ranking teams shooting the 3 as a % of all shots. Strangely a very similar list as those that shoot low volume and bad percentage and again, no other major program other than IU in sight.

As far as questions are concerned, please give even a single good reason Woodrow has been unable to recruit or bring in via portal, a single good 3 pt shooter in the three offseasons prior.

If Miles Rice continues to shoot 27.5% from 3 next season or Carlyle continues his sub par 3 pt shooting are you going to be exclaiming,   " Who else did you want attempting more 3's? " like a good Woodrow apologist?

So you still haven't answered as to who should have been shooting more 3's last year? Again, typical but expected. The offense was tailored to the personnel. You can't, or better yet, you refuse to answer the question because we both know the answer: bad shooting teams shouldn't shoot more. It's like saying a triple option team should pass 40 times a game. 

As far as the rest of your nonsense goes, I've said repeatedly that Woodson and the staff's misevaluation of Xavier Johnson and Trey Galloway as a lead guard was unacceptable. Not landing someone like Love or Knecht from the portal doomed last season. And yeah if Rice has a season long slump like he did the last 6-7 games of last year that tanked his average, probably in trouble. I don't see it happening though. Best part about freshman is that they become sophomores. Reneau and Ware took fantastic freshman to sophomore leaps under Woodson and I expect the same for Rice, Carlyle, and Mgbako. Woodson has addressed everything this offseason that this board has been bitching about: guard play and shooting. It does not matter what you run offensively if you don't have solid guard play. Myles Rice instantly becomes one of the best PG's in the B10 and if you dig deep enough into advanced stats, Carlyle shot the ball exceptionally well playing off ball, a role he'll most likely take next year. 

[AH1971 1,415]

22 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

As far as questions are concerned, please give even a single good reason Woodrow has been unable to recruit or bring in via portal, a single good 3 pt shooter in the three offseasons prior.

Kopp? Goode? 

[iu eyedoc 1,782]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Kopp? Goode? 

3 offseasons PRIOR. And I did forget Kopp, but I guess so did Woodrow, since instead of getting looks for the one capable 3 pt shooter he  has brought in, Kopp's volume, as a experience senior and senior+ and best 3point shooter on the team,  went down to lowest since being a snot nosed freshman.

[AH1971 1,415]

2 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

3 offseasons PRIOR. And I did forget Kopp, but I guess so did Woodrow, since instead of getting looks for the one capable 3 pt shooter he  has brought in, Kopp's volume, as a experience senior and senior+ and best 3point shooter on the team,  went down to lowest since being a snot nosed freshman.

JFC, you do realize Kopp took a reduced role to come here right? And his efficiency soared.