Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[OKHOOSIER 1,951]

24 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Exactly why I didn't want to go this route for next season. Just like everyone said he needed to hit a home run in the 24 recruiting. Well we struck out.

Now we have to hit a HR in the portal. If we hit a single or double it's just not good enough. 

The pro-woody crowd is acting like we are the only team that is a logical option for the best players and conveniently ignoring the fact that good teams will be filling holes while also having a roster of HS recruits. Also acting like cash money records is the end all be all. It certainly wasn’t for Liam, Queen, Boogie, Love, Timberlake, Ledlum, or knecht. We had huge guard minutes and money to give away last year, and they all said no. And I am supposed to believe they were afraid of X and Gallo? absolute nonsense.  This is going to be a disaster. I was talking myself into maybe being a tournament team with Liam. Without? Bleak. 

[Chris007 43,453]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

Big miscalculation to think those upset by that comment are in large numbers. For every 1 that is there are multiples ready to take those tickets and cheer. 

Only reason to think Assembly Hall would be empty is lack of wins. Which it would be regardless of any comments if losing ensues. 

I think you are correct season ticket holders are very smart people. They're not giving up their tickets because we're giving a former player one more year. But I do believe they will sell a lot of them next year and I think most of them don't care to who. I've talked to multiple people who plan to keep their tickets and try to make their money back off of them. Most of these people are people who donate around 10-30K a year. They're pulling back their donations and won't travel to any road games. Now will they change their mind, very possible but that was what they were saying on Monday when asked. 

[Golfman25 4,957]

5 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Big miscalculation to think those upset by that comment are in large numbers. For every 1 that is there are multiples ready to take those tickets and cheer. 

Only reason to think Assembly Hall would be empty is lack of wins. Which it would be regardless of any comments if losing ensues. 

We'll see.  

[ib4iu 350]

14 minutes ago, KNOBYDOX said:

If mr stays and we get a new big, how does our offense change for the better ?

It doesn’t. But that has nothing to do with MR and all to do with we haven’t had a coach that can teach offense since Crean. 

[Chris007 43,453]

4 minutes ago, OKHOOSIER said:

The pro-woody crowd is acting like we are the only team that is a logical option for the best players and conveniently ignoring the fact that good teams will be filling holes while also having a roster of HS recruits. Also acting like cash money records is the end all be all. It certainly wasn’t for Liam, Queen, Boogie, Love, Timberlake, Ledlum, or knecht. We had huge guard minutes and money to give away last year, and they all said no. And I am supposed to believe they were afraid of X and Gallo? absolute nonsense.  This is going to be a disaster. I was talking myself into maybe being a tournament team with Liam. Without? Bleak. 

Every kid will have to decide to go to a bubble team like IU for more money upfront or go to a proven school that will make the tourney and make more money that way. 

[AH1971 1,415]

7 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

There is zero evidence that Miracle Mike can get that done.  Money or not.  

TJD (by all the highlights, killing it in the NBA) and Ware about to go -- yet another NBA prospect decides he would rather go to Maryland of all places than follow in their footsteps.  Money didn't keep him.

24 hours after it's announced the coach is coming back, your 5*, NBA prospect, says later boys.   Money didn't keep him.  

Struck out on all the other high level high school prospects.  Money did jack squat there.  

We have had 6 transfers in -- the two best:  Ware and X.  Kopp and Walker where plus additions, but not difference makers.  So now I am to believe we are going to do what no other program has done -- land 5-6 of the top 50 or so portal transfers because we have money.  I'll believe it when I see it.  

Biz Professor Waldman taught me something while I was at IU.  When starting a business, money can be a curse.  It allows you to buy out your problems, not solve them.  We are there fellas.  

Assuming MR and MM return, primary emphasis should be the continued upward trajectory development of those two. MR and MM should both be able to average 16+ next year. You need a combo guard who can score from all 3 levels and share ball-handling duties with Galloway (this will be your target that you $$$$ at) and then a high volume/high make 3 point shooter to play along side.

Transfer CG

Galloway

High Volume/High Make 3 pt shooter

MM

MR

That's a highly competitive starting lineup who can score.

From there you need to bring in a rim protecting 5, a versatile 4 who can defend, and another 3 point specialist who can come off the bench. That's a realistic outlook that you can expect from the portal this offseason.

I agree wholeheartedly that chasing the highest rated portal targets and throwing money at them is going to end up being a recipe for disaster. You need to construct a roster with guys that all fill different roles.  

[RaceToTheTop 24,782]

37 minutes ago, ib4iu said:

Here is the problem I have with the transfer portal. We all wanted so badly Jordan Dingle who ended up at St. John’s and Nicholas Timberlake who ended up at Kansas. We didn’t really have any legitimate chance at any of the other top ones. 
 

Dingle - 24.8mpg, 11.2pts, 30.8% 3pt

Timberlake - 14mpg, 4.6pts, 28.9% 3pt

I realize we didn’t get Caleb Love or Dalton Knecht and those would have been the top 2 difference makers for our team. My point is though, IU has to land quite literally the very best C, PG, SG, and SF in the portal of MM doesn’t come back to have any chance of success next season. And if the best we can get is at the Timberlake/Dingle level, then there won’t be many wins next year either. And as much as it might drive me crazy to watch, we need a Caleb Love type that can create their own shot. We know Woody won’t be creating plays for them. 

Portal may produce more knowns that incoming freshman, but it is still a crap shoot.  Could say you are playing craps with one die already thrown.  When you look at the Ivy League transfers of Dingle, Ledlum, and Ryan Langborg I don't think anyone would have guessed that Langborg would be the highest scorer of the three after transferring.

 

[OKHOOSIER 1,951]

1 minute ago, AH1971 said:

Assuming MR and MM return, primary emphasis should be the continued upward trajectory development of those two. MR and MM should both be able to average 16+ next year. You need a combo guard who can score from all 3 levels and share ball-handling duties with Galloway (this will be your target that you $$$$ at) and then a high volume/high make 3 point shooter to play along side.

Transfer CG

Galloway

High Volume/High Make 3 pt shooter

MM

MR

That's a highly competitive starting lineup who can score.

From there you need to bring in a rim protecting 5, a versatile 4 who can defend, and another 3 point specialist who can come off the bench. That's a realistic outlook that you can expect from the portal this offseason.

I agree wholeheartedly that chasing the highest rated portal targets and throwing money at them is going to end up being a recipe for disaster. You need to construct a roster with guys that all fill different roles.  

Luckily combo guards and wings that can shoot the three aren’t traditionally coveted by every team in the offseason. This should be easy peasy. 

[Stuhoo 79,265]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Every kid will have to decide to go to a bubble team like IU for more money upfront or go to a proven school that will make the tourney and make more money that way. 

And getting kids that are primarily motivated by money is not the best recipe for team culture.

[jumpshot53 130]

I have to admit, I'm a flip-flopper.  I wasn't going to watch, I didn't care if MSU would beat us, but the game pulled me in.  I was having fun, cheering for my team and happy for our guys...and happy for our coach.  Their speeches didn't bother me,  I'm kind of surprised Liam is getting so much criticism.  I would be too tongued tied in front of thousands of people, and thousands watching from home to be an eloquent speaker.  Liam didn't bother me,  I don't think he was arrogant, I think he might have used better wording,  but he is at IU to play basketball, not give speeches.  He's a good kid from all reports, so I hope people lay off him.

Woodson didn't bother me either.  He knows he's being attacked from so many now.   Right or wrong, he has the right to defend himself,  just like we all do.  The bigger they are, the harder they fall, so if he fails at this job,  that will be his forever legacy.  I just want our team to win and I want the best person to make that happen.  Speaking of Dusty....lol...I heard a rumor that he wasn't ready to leave his job just yet.  Could that be a reason why no change was made this year at IU?  

If we lose the first game this week,  I'll probably be back on here calling for Woodson's head.  Being an IU fan is HARD!

[HoosierCoop 3,884]

5 minutes ago, JimmerNoe said:

I’m going to try to stay positive because honestly it’s happier and healthier lol. One thing I will say about Malik is that he made a huge leap physically this offseason. Additionally he showed he has no problem shooting the three when it’s open. Maybe this summer he takes another leap and is the best big in the BIG. I don’t feel like we would be overpaying based on his trajectory if he made top tier money. As we’ve all discussed, something’s gotta give strategy wise but I would be comfortable with MM and MR being towards the top of our pay scale. They would get it elsewhere.

I would say that I agree that you need to go top to retain MR and MM.

A couple of notes:

MR - Has the skill set and physicality to be a really effective 4.  However, the mental/IQ part of his game needs to drastically improve.  I think once he understands the game, the sky is the limit (i.e. not forcing through double teams, position passing to open shots, silly fouls, etc.)

MM - Is an extremely dangerous shooter as long as he doesn't have to create the shot. IMO, he lacks athleticism.  Things that he can work on is ballhandling (when he dribbles I cover my eyes), not creating a shot but rather create and opening (reading and playing off of screens), and ball IQ (he is a freshman and this will come).

Question:  Can our current coaching staff recognize and improve on these things?  I wish Vic would come back and be a mentor to these guys.

[RaceToTheTop 24,782]

10 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Not at all. It would have seemed like something was wrong if he didn't. In his eyes, it's only the fans who think he's bad at his job, not his boss. I'm guessing he's about to find out that Dolson doesn't think it's all roses though. 

Kind of funny how kathywithaC views it, isn't it?  LOL.

[KNOBYDOX 109]

11 minutes ago, ib4iu said:

It doesn’t. But that has nothing to do with MR and all to do with we haven’t had a coach that can teach offense since Crean. 

My question was not to criticize any player but instead the offense just to be clear 

Edited March 12 by KNOBYDOX

[AH1971 1,415]

6 minutes ago, OKHOOSIER said:

Luckily combo guards and wings that can shoot the three aren’t traditionally coveted by every team in the offseason. This should be easy peasy. 

How many teams coveted a Ryan Langborn last year? Or a Lance Jones? They're everywhere.

But yes if the plan is to go all-in on Bruce Thornton, Wade Taylor, and Jordan Pope we're going to be disappointed. 

[Hornsby 1,651]

Exactly why I didn't want to go this route for next season. Just like everyone said he needed to hit a home run in the 24 recruiting. Well we struck out.
Now we have to hit a HR in the portal. If we hit a single or double it's just not good enough. 

So are you saying mm is back now?

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[RaceToTheTop 24,782]

30 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

As I said, call them out for what you consider unacceptable behavior.  Something like not everything on Trilly's discord is true, etc. etc.  When you stand up and basically say fans are true or not based on whether they agree 100% with what your doing is BS.  Mike's going to find out very quickly who the "true" fans are playing to an empty AH if is little poker game comes up short.   

That's basically what I was alluding to.  I think most would agree there are some things that fans do that cross the line.  If you are going to throw a dig out, make it about the actions and not the person.  And don't make it vague.

[Home Jersey 6,249]

10 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

And getting kids that are primarily motivated by money is not the best recipe for team culture.

In other words, we're likely going to end up with some kids who consciously decided on IU without money being the sole factor. We're also likely to end up with some kids who decide because of the paycheck that IU is their best option. That's basically our main selling point right now along with minutes and playing for a coach with NBA contacts. Maybe it will be successful maybe it won't. Making sure we have the "right balance" will be key since we've left ourselves no other options. Hopefully a lot of learnings from last portal season. 

[Hornsby 1,651]

In other words, we're likely going to end up with some kids who consciously decided on IU without money being the sole factor. We're also likely to end up with some kids who decide because of the paycheck that IU is their best option. That's basically our main selling point right now along with minutes and playing for a coach with NBA contacts. Maybe it will be successful maybe it won't. Making sure we have the "right balance" will be key since we've left ourselves no other options. Hopefully a lot of learnings from last portal season. 

Plus as mentioned above the portal is very hit or miss. Timberlake barely plays and kansas and he was considered one of the top names available. That why you don't want all your eggs in the portal basket.

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[AH1971 1,415]

1 minute ago, Home Jersey said:

In other words, we're likely going to end up with some kids who consciously decided on IU without money being the sole factor. We're also likely to end up with some kids who decide because of the paycheck that IU is their best option. That's basically our main selling point right now along with minutes and playing for a coach with NBA contacts. Maybe it will be successful maybe it won't. Making sure we have the "right balance" will be key since we've left ourselves no other options. Hopefully a lot of learnings from last portal season. 

There will be plenty of players in the portal with local/regional connections that would jump at the chance to play at IU with NIL incentives. 

[RaceToTheTop 24,782]

30 minutes ago, Trish said:

Has Malik really gotten better or has his usage just increased without TJD? Same goes for Ware basically. 

Ware is much, much better than he was at Oregon.