IUBB vs #2 Kansas - Saturday, 12.16.23 @ 12:30 on CBS

[Chris007 61,484]

1 minute ago, HoosierHoopster said:

But we have some guys who can hit the 3. Just because they're not hitting well so far generally this season doesn't mean they can't shoot. We need the staff to encourage and set up outside shots as part of our offense. Imo, that is not happening, and that is part of the problem with connecting.

I guess I don't see the same thing. I feel like Mack, maybe Ware can shoot it. I don't feel comfortable with anyone else. Gunn can hit it but he takes a lot of bad ones, Cupps is not there yet, Malik no way and Trey is struggling. But JMO

[HoosierHoopster 8,096]

49 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

He is FAR from a complete basketball player but IMO we're not really seeing Mack be put in the best position to thrive. Team success comes first (obviously) but he is the best bet at getting a perimeter threat going. I'd like to see him get more kick outs from Reneau - he could probably get at least 2-5 every game from what I've seen. Mack needs to be better about when to catch and shoot vs put it on the floor too of course. If the shots fall great, if they don't, they're usually at least close enough we give ourselves a chance at an offensive rebound. To me it looks like he is playing afraid to make a mistake/get called out for shot selection. Turning him loose from 3 like we did the first half of the Auburn game  would let him play a little more up and down the court, get into a good rhythm..

I see things similarly. Why aren't we running sets to get him shots and encourage it? Why aren't we playing inside-out ball? We have a couple of excellent forwards who at times draw the double-team, we could easily be a team that spreads the O better by better incorporating an outside shooting game. 

[HoosierHoopster 8,096]

Just now, Chris007 said:

I guess I don't see the same thing. I feel like Mack, maybe Ware can shoot it. I don't feel comfortable with anyone else. Gunn can hit it but he takes a lot of bad ones, Cupps is not there yet, Malik no way and Trey is struggling. But JMO

Mack in particular, X when he's back, Trey (struggling but can't just forget last season, he should start to hit better), Ware

[Uspshoosier 53,629]

1 minute ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Mack in particular, X when he's back, Trey (struggling but can't just forget last season, he should start to hit better), Ware

Not sure on Galloway starting to hit better.  Last year was the outlier year in my opinion.   He was never known as a shooter in high school.   3 of his years in college look the same while one of them sticks out like a sore thumb.   Wished those numbers were reversed but they are not 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,236]

8 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I guess I don't see the same thing. I feel like Mack, maybe Ware can shoot it. I don't feel comfortable with anyone else. Gunn can hit it but he takes a lot of bad ones, Cupps is not there yet, Malik no way and Trey is struggling. But JMO

Cupps needs to be shooting 7 a game. He'll never get there if he doesn't start. Reneau need to be shooting at least 2. Especially if he's open. Ware probably 4 a game. Galloway if he's open. Mack needs to shoot like 9 a game.

[Hoosier987 2,625]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

But what I don't understand is if we suck at shooting 3's, then why would we want our guys to take more of them. Believe me, I want a team that shoots at least 25 a game. But I look at our roster and can't think of anyone I want just hoisting up reckless 3's

Well said. Which goes back to the way this team was poorly constructed.

With that said - and even though they don't have high percentages so far -  I would like to see MM (more plays run for him) and Cupps shoot more threes. We know these guys can shoot. I remember seeing Cupps make a ton in a row (maybe 15) at HH

[Hoosier987 2,625]

16 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Not sure on Galloway starting to hit better.  Last year was the outlier year in my opinion.   He was never known as a shooter in high school.   3 of his years in college look the same while one of them sticks out like a sore thumb.   Wished those numbers were reversed but they are not 

Agreed. Galloway has disappointed this season so far....but his shots aren't even close. He's throwing up so many legit bricks he could be a brick mason. Galloway should look to drive and or pass before shooting threes.

[HoosierHoopster 8,096]

23 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Not sure on Galloway starting to hit better.  Last year was the outlier year in my opinion.   He was never known as a shooter in high school.   3 of his years in college look the same while one of them sticks out like a sore thumb.   Wished those numbers were reversed but they are not 

I'm not fully sure either, but I don't think an entire year of shooting particularly the year immediately prior can just be disregarded as an outlier. It's still early, if we're running sets for shooting, instead of just telling them they can shoot if it's what's available (which is my working assumption on what I'm seeing), shooting should improve, imo.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,013]

Not sure on Galloway starting to hit better.  Last year was the outlier year in my opinion.   He was never known as a shooter in high school.   3 of his years in college look the same while one of them sticks out like a sore thumb.   Wished those numbers were reversed but they are not 

In my opinion he {Galloway} and his backup {Gunn} are our teams biggest flaw on offense. He is just absolutely broken shooting the ball. I like him as our non shooting PG as much as Cupps and maybe even as much as X or more. But then we need a true shooting guard 2 and we don’t have that. That position has been the ultimate letdown. PG too though. The 3 spot has been kinda bad too, especially on defense but I feel good with Mgbako shooting the rock.

FWIW, I’ve been here for years and I don’t think I’ve ever seen USPS this level of frustrated with our team. That says something in itself.

ALL THIS SAID, I THINK WE PULL OFF THE MIRACLE TOMORROW. I hope.


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[HoosierHoopster 8,096]

21 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Cupps needs to be shooting 7 a game. He'll never get there if he doesn't start. Reneau need to be shooting at least 2. Especially if he's open. Ware probably 4 a game. Galloway if he's open. Mack needs to shoot like 9 a game.

More 3's than I would want but agree with the idea. Cupps can shoot, but he isn't shooting. Ware and BigMack, absolutely can / should shoot more.

End of the day what I would like to see / hope to see is a more diverse offense that incorporates the 3. We're not an outside shooting team, ok. But we can be a team that incorporates the 3 and plays inside out to open the floor more and keep the D honest.

It's also good for recruiting the guards and wings we need.

[Hoosier987 2,625]

9 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

In my opinion he {Galloway} and his backup {Gunn} are our teams biggest flaw on offense. He is just absolutely broken shooting the ball. I like him as our non shooting PG as much as Cupps and maybe even as much as X or more. But then we need a true shooting guard 2 and we don’t have that. That position has been the ultimate letdown. PG too though. The 3 spot has been kinda bad too, especially on defense but I feel good with Mgbako shooting the rock.

FWIW, I’ve been here for years and I don’t think I’ve ever seen USPS this level of frustrated with our team. That says something in itself.

ALL THIS SAID, I THINK WE PULL OFF THE MIRACLE TOMORROW. I hope.


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I think we're frustrated because we knew perimeter play was and is an obvious major glare/issue with this team. We had to go into this off-season getting legit perimeter play, no "ifs ands or butts.." and it wasn't done...and then we leave a scholarship open too. If we landed a bona-fide shooter, this team is different. As others have mentioned...we have an elite front court with a mid major back court.  CJ Gunn was never going to be the answer this year and I'm not sure he ever will be, so I hope we learn and prioritize shooting heavily moving forward. McNeeley is a start in the right direction.

[Uspshoosier 53,629]

10 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I'm not fully sure either, but I don't think an entire year of shooting particularly the year immediately prior can just be disregarded as an outlier. It's still early, if we're running sets for shooting, instead of just telling them they can shoot if it's what's available (which is my working assumption on what I'm seeing), shooting should improve, imo.

Its interesting to see the numbers on his shooting 

Freshman - 3 pt %- 18% and FT- 73%
Sophmore- 3pt%- 21%. and FT-65%
Junior- 3pt- 46%.          and FT-64%
Senior- 3pt- 13%            and FT- 56%

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,013]

Running sets or not, he is wide open. His shot has changed again. 

Trey Galloway

 

FT percentage

 

21-22. .650

22-23. .644

23-24. .560

 

This says everything. This is our 33mpg shooting guard. This is ridiculous. I can’t wrap my brain around this.

 

7’4” Edey shoots .759 on a gazillion attempts.

 

 

 

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[Hoosier987 2,625]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

 But… we have no options at the moment. 

Which is a big problem in itself.

[go iu bb 9,048]

1 minute ago, Ngw7183 said:

You could argue we have a Galloway problem and it isn’t even a team issue. His D hasn’t been very good either. But… we have no options at the moment. 

Yes, he hasn't been playing with the same energy and intensity of his first 3 years. It's most noticeable on defense.

[JSHoosier 22,186]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

I just read that Kansas ranks 320th in three-point attempts. I bet their message boards are even worse than ours. 

Unless they actively refuse to shoot a 3 they'll get plenty of looks against us.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,013]

You could argue we have a Galloway problem and it isn’t even a team issue. His D hasn’t been very good either. But… we have no options at the moment. 

Agree. For once our bigs, sans Sparks (who probably shouldn’t be playing) are good/competent free throw shooters. Cupps or Galloway would either be ok as a 10-15 minute guy off the bench. X, I can’t make up my mind. He’s hit or miss. Our guards overall leave so much to be desired. Ultimately that’s on coach. It’s terribly frustrating to waste a year with Ware/Reneau playing their butts off.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,236]

23 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

You could argue we have a Galloway problem and it isn’t even a team issue. His D hasn’t been very good either. But… we have no options at the moment. 

Throw Gunn in the starting lineup over him. What the hell do we have to lose at this point? Nothing is a better motivator than @$$ on bench.

[Stuhoo 88,419]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

Ok, decided to jump back in after seeing this back and forth. I just see the 3pt shot thing as a minor issue with the current version of the roster. Woody feels the same and is done with podcast guys and people like Coyle asking it every time. He didn’t want to go into it. Reminds me of a former coach who didn’t want to placate to the media.

- we gave up over 100 to Auburn. We are never, no matter how many 3s we shoot, going to outshoot teams with this roster. defense is much large issue.
- we can do the following with this roster - turn over less, turn them over, offensive rebound better, guard the 3 better, hit FTs. 

- there are multiple top 15 teams with low volume 3p shooting. Couple more per game isn’t going to change our outcome. Analytics can be improved in other ways than shooting 3pts. He is right. Make a few more and do other things better. 

- subbing patterns - yeah, probably rotated better but nobody complained when the same platoon won the Michigan game. Answer is in the middle and he will adjust. He did in prior years if you look at minute distribution as season progressed. 

They can hang with Kansas. Way different team than Auburn/Miami type. Get X back (I heard late Dec @Chris007 ??) but worse case early Big Ten and I think they will be fine. Matchup well with Purdue again as well. Easy to see path forward. 
 

hopefully all are healthy for this game so we have more energy to give. 

Completely agree.

Yes, it would be nice if we had more weapons from three, and more confident three point shooters.

But the primary problem is defense. I can’t think of one player on the team who has been consistently good on the defensive end. Maybe Banks or Ware. Cupps has been as good as can be expected for a freshman point, but that’s not enough.

Gunn, Gallo, Walker, and X have been good at times and pretty bad at times, Reneau has been poor, and Mgbako has been next-level awful.

[Home Jersey 15,367]

RE: "if we don't have a roster that can shoot the 3 well, why do some want to shoot more 3s?" 

As Hoopster pointed out... just because we generally haven't hit at a great percentage through 9 games as a team - first D1 games for Cupps and Mack - doesn't mean some guys can't shoot. Even the best of college shoots are usually pretty streaky from 3.

The difference between knocking down a jump shot in a live game vs shoot around/practice/scrimmage, is HUGE.

Speed, length, crowd noise, added pressure... You've got to have some heavy stones to step on the court and let it rip from deep - will your teammates agree that was the best shot? You're going to hear about it if not. Especially in our system... Woodson very clearly has stated his preference for 2s over 3s.  At the end of the day, to be a shooter you've got to be one confident S.O.B.

And the only way you're gonna find/develop a knock down shooter is by letting them build the confidence with real game reps. If they're actually a good shooter, over time, the percentages will go up. This is very normal - career %s go up all the time.

Within the season, how rapidly can we improve? Stands to reason best bet would be your younger guys with more upside. Cupps finally showed some offensive production vs. Auburn (only arguable silver lining I can think of...) and Mack is a 5 star who is only about to play in his 10th D1 game. Let's hope he's got a little something extra for Kansas considering his recruitment. 

Ware has looked straight up good from 3. I would like to see more wrinkles in the offense where he gets used on the perimeter. Xavier is a pretty good career 3PT shooter. Gallo - last year very well may have been an outlier, but at the same time, he's shown he has the ability. I think he's really a victim of our lacking backcourt depth more than anything. 

Malik and Banks have both shown flashes. Gunn has obviously terrible shooting/3%s but he hit 2 big ones from deep against Michigan and has shown great instincts as an on-ball defender... and if we're talking about upside WITHIN this season... we'd all better root for him to make them when he takes them (not arguing that CJ specifically needs to shoot more 3s). 

 

TL;DR: You need game reps to build the confidence to be a knock down shooter. Our system does not lend itself to that but in the grand scheme of things we've got way bigger problems than our 3PT%/volumes right now, IMO.

Let's clobber these suckers tomorrow. I can't stand Hunter Dickinson. Does GSW have a game tomorrow or can TJD make an appearance to haunt him one more time for memory's sake.