IUBB vs Maryland - 2/24/22 @ 7:00 on FS1

[RaceToTheTop 26,313]

3 minutes ago, yogisballin said:

Said this 6-7 weeks ago and got blasted for it


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You didn't get 'blasted for it" -- statistics were provided to show that the statement wasn't true.  The ball movement may be better but it's not resulting in more points.  Again, against Maryland he went to the bench with foul trouble in the first half and IU scored 10 points in 9 1/2 minutes of play.  For the year, with him on the court, IU has outscored their opponents by 10.4 points per 100 possesions, with him off the court IU has outscored their opponents by 7.1 points per 100 possessions.

[MikeRoberts 7,196]

15 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

You didn't get 'blasted for it" -- statistics were provided to show that the statement wasn't true.  The ball movement may be better but it's not resulting in more points.  Again, against Maryland he went to the bench with foul trouble in the first half and IU scored 10 points in 9 1/2 minutes of play.  For the year, with him on the court, IU has outscored their opponents by 10.4 points per 100 possesions, with him off the court IU has outscored their opponents by 7.1 points per 100 possessions.

Are there stats like you mention that are bigten games only? 
I ask as TJD has looked like an All-American against sub-par teams in the pre-season and a 3rd team all-bigten player against better competition 

[Free Jurkin! 1,507]

We won the game we all wanted against Purdue.  We don’t win if TJD doesn’t get in foul trouble and plays big minutes.  
 
The offense looks a lot better with TJD on the bench and it’s not hard to explain.  The CMW offense is predicated on 1 in and 4 out.  That’s just his offensive philosophy.
 
We can debate on wether that’s a TJD problem or a CMW problem but it’s not a good fit.  This is why I keep saying our record will be better next year without him.  It’s not all on TJD but that’s just how I see it.  I also think some of our current players will continue to develop and we have a stud coming in and I’m sure we will kick around the portal.  If we don’t have a better record next year I will have no problem admitting I’m wrong.
 

 
 
 

I agree that we were better against Purdue without TJD, but that was pretty unique to the matchup. We weren't going to get a lot inside with the way TJD plays against a 7'4" center, and TJD was too small to stop him on defense. It was better to try to spread them out, and fortunately we were hitting 3s. But most teams don't have a giant at center.

I'm frustrated with the lack of development by TJD just like everyone else. He's never developed a jump shot, which could actually put some pressure on guys like Edey and Cockburn that are a mismatch for him. He hasn't gotten better at the line. He's not good with his right hand, and he still misses too many easy ones around the rim. And yet he's still one of the best players in the conference. IU does not have another guy that they can give the ball to and expect to score when nothing else is working. For a team that struggles to score, that's pretty valuable. Until IU has a number of consistent outside shooters and/or guys that can beat defenders off the dribble, they're not going to be better without TJD


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[JSHoosier 20,462]

The offense may move better without TJD but having a big like that can benefit the guards a lot, good guards and no big isn't a good combo either.  Problem is our guards can't shoot and TJD hasn't developed to pressure the likes of Cockburn or the giants little brother always has.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,896]

9 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

You didn't get 'blasted for it" -- statistics were provided to show that the statement wasn't true.  The ball movement may be better but it's not resulting in more points.  Again, against Maryland he went to the bench with foul trouble in the first half and IU scored 10 points in 9 1/2 minutes of play.  For the year, with him on the court, IU has outscored their opponents by 10.4 points per 100 possesions, with him off the court IU has outscored their opponents by 7.1 points per 100 possessions.

Folks were talking about how “good” the offense looked against Maryland in the first half when we scored a whopping 13 points in more than 10 minutes without him.

For whatever reason Trayce has become the whipping boy for a lot of posters and they keep pushing the absurd narrative of us being better without him. They also ignore the defensive side of things where Trayce is leading the Big Ten in blocks. We have the best defense in the conference and he’s a huge part of it. 

[MikeRoberts 7,196]

40 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Folks were talking about how “good” the offense looked against Maryland in the first half when we scored a whopping 13 points in more than 10 minutes without him.

For whatever reason Trayce has become the whipping boy for a lot of posters and they keep pushing the absurd narrative of us being better without him. They also ignore the defensive side of things where Trayce is leading the Big Ten in blocks. We have the best defense in the conference and he’s a huge part of it. 

We’re better all around with him.

it’s not his fault we force it into him on every possession and then stand around and pass up open shots and have very few guys that can create 

also, while I really like Race, I don’t like those two playing together. Having two bigs under the hoop makes guard penetration impossible.

[lillurk 3,823]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

We’re better all around with him.

it’s not his fault we force it into him on every possession and then stand around and pass up open shots and have very few guys that can create 

Also when he’s engaged on defense he’s the best option at the 5. I like the Race/Geronimo lineups but they trade away some rim protection for smoother switching

[IUFAN1976 3,513]

2 hours ago, Free Jurkin! said:

I agree that we were better against Purdue without TJD, but that was pretty unique to the matchup. We weren't going to get a lot inside with the way TJD plays against a 7'4" center, and TJD was too small to stop him on defense. It was better to try to spread them out, and fortunately we were hitting 3s. But most teams don't have a giant at center.

I'm frustrated with the lack of development by TJD just like everyone else. He's never developed a jump shot, which could actually put some pressure on guys like Edey and Cockburn that are a mismatch for him. He hasn't gotten better at the line. He's not good with his right hand, and he still misses too many easy ones around the rim. And yet he's still one of the best players in the conference. IU does not have another guy that they can give the ball to and expect to score when nothing else is working. For a team that struggles to score, that's pretty valuable. Until IU has a number of consistent outside shooters and/or guys that can beat defenders off the dribble, they're not going to be better without TJD


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I think we are all disappointed with the fact that TJD hasn’t developed the things you pointed out.  If he had, this offense would flow much better with him in the lineup instead of being predictable.

[HoosierHoopster 7,233]

37 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

We’re better all around with him.

it’s not his fault we force it into him on every possession and then stand around and pass up open shots and have very few guys that can create 

Agree, I don’t think people are really saying we’re better without TJD (haven’t read through the thread though), it’s that we’re forcing the O through him and not running actual inside-out or opening up the lane by spread or the wing with more shooting. The offense becomes predictable and because Kopp doesn’t put it on the floor well guarding the limited shooting we show is often easy.

There’s no question we lose that PU game but for TJD’s foul trouble. It wasn’t just that Rob went off it was Rob and X’s guard game with shooting that PU couldn’t handle. And we just beat MD for that matter with a guard game - shooting and movement, along with both Race and TJD inside, it’s balance, not just standing outside and watching TJD attacking the basket.

[Stuhoo 81,803]

During the Maryland game I was encouraged by how the coaching staff used, but did not overuse Trayce’s talents in the second half.

[BGleas 7,917]

1 hour ago, MikeRoberts said:

We’re better all around with him.

it’s not his fault we force it into him on every possession and then stand around and pass up open shots and have very few guys that can create 

also, while I really like Race, I don’t like those two playing together. Having two bigs under the hoop makes guard penetration impossible.

Completely agree. I remember Baylor last year, they essentially played a 41 offense with their 5 basically running around setting ball screens all possession. 

Mark Vital was their 4 and he would mostly spot up in the corner. Vital, built similar to Race, was an even worse 3pt shooter then Race, but it still worked to space the floor for their dynamic guards and wings. 

Of course our guards and wings aren't nearly as talented as Baylor's from last year, but my point is that Woodson came in talking about wanting to play a 41 offense, but he sort of abandoned it since neither TJD or Race can shoot reliably. 

I don’t think he needs to a abandon it though, and I thought we actually went to it against Maryland to an extent and it worked well. We didn't have Race all the way in the corner, but I saw an adjustment where Race was more in the short corner as opposed to on the block and it created more space for XJ in the PnR with TJD. 

I'd love to see Woodson move the offense this way with it based around a 41 set up running through XJ and TJD in the PnR game, as opposed to running the offense through TJD and Race on the block. 

I definitely don't think we're better without TJD. But, I do think we're better running a more spread offense and getting our guards and wings much more involved and then going to our bigs through PnR. 

[MikeRoberts 7,196]

18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree. I remember Baylor last year, they essentially played a 41 offense with their 5 basically running around setting ball screens all possession. 

Mark Vital was their 4 and he would mostly spot up in the corner. Vital, built similar to Race, was an even worse 3pt shooter then Race, but it still worked to space the floor for their dynamic guards and wings. 

Of course our guards and wings aren't nearly as talented as Baylor's from last year, but my point is that Woodson came in talking about wanting to play a 41 offense, but he sort of abandoned it since neither TJD or Race can shoot reliably. 

I don’t think he needs to a abandon it though, and I thought we actually went to it against Maryland to an extent and it worked well. We didn't have Race all the way in the corner, but I saw an adjustment where Race was more in the short corner as opposed to on the block and it created more space for XJ in the PnR with TJD. 

I'd love to see Woodson move the offense this way with it based around a 41 set up running through XJ and TJD in the PnR game, as opposed to running the offense through TJD and Race on the block. 

I definitely don't think we're better without TJD. But, I do think we're better running a more spread offense and getting our guards and wings much more involved and then going to our bigs through PnR. 

Watching that X drive to the hoop for the slam is a good example of what getting our bigs out of the lane can do to open things up for others.

The lane was wide open which is very rarely the case

[BGleas 7,917]

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

Watching that X drive to the hoop for the slam is a good example of what getting our bigs out of the lane can do to open things up for others.

The lane was wide open which is very rarely the case

Absolutely! I think it also helps with XJ's decision making when he attacks. He had more space Thursday when attacking off the PnR and he made much better decisions on when to go score, when to drop it off to the bigs and when to kick out. 

As you said, it was just less crowded. 

[IUFAN1976 3,513]

43 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree. I remember Baylor last year, they essentially played a 41 offense with their 5 basically running around setting ball screens all possession. 

Mark Vital was their 4 and he would mostly spot up in the corner. Vital, built similar to Race, was an even worse 3pt shooter then Race, but it still worked to space the floor for their dynamic guards and wings. 

Of course our guards and wings aren't nearly as talented as Baylor's from last year, but my point is that Woodson came in talking about wanting to play a 41 offense, but he sort of abandoned it since neither TJD or Race can shoot reliably. 

I don’t think he needs to a abandon it though, and I thought we actually went to it against Maryland to an extent and it worked well. We didn't have Race all the way in the corner, but I saw an adjustment where Race was more in the short corner as opposed to on the block and it created more space for XJ in the PnR with TJD. 

I'd love to see Woodson move the offense this way with it based around a 41 set up running through XJ and TJD in the PnR game, as opposed to running the offense through TJD and Race on the block. 

I definitely don't think we're better without TJD. But, I do think we're better running a more spread offense and getting our guards and wings much more involved and then going to our bigs through PnR. 

One thing that you didn’t point out that it helped with is when TJD set a pick for X and once he turned the corner, it allowed him and Trayce to both go downhill and that puts a lot of pressure on the D and allows X to make a decision to take it to the hoop, toss it up for Trayce or pass it out to a wing.  It seemed to work a lot in the 1st half of the Syracuse game but we haven’t seemed to use effectively since until the Maryland game.  I like that offense myself, it gets X & Trayce going downhill and that plays to their strengths.

I hope we see it more in the upcoming games, but it only works if Race moves away from the basket 

[HoosierHoopster 7,233]

Related, when Galloway is back, hopefully tomorrow, i would love to see him used baseline like how Troy was used offensively. There are similarities to their games, both explosive “downhill” to the rim, Galloway has shown a strong baseline drive to a reverse dunk, he should be poised for it regularly 

[Chris007 45,739]

How about a lineup next year of X, JHS, Galloway, Geronimo, Race.

Bates, Leal, Gunn, & Banks, Duncomb 2nd team. I’m sure I’m missing some.

[Hoosierfan1901 6,412]

5 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

How about a lineup next year of X, JHS, Galloway, Geronimo, Race.

Bates, Leal, Gunn, & Banks, Duncomb 2nd team. I’m sure I’m missing some.

Yea, me, smh, give me some respect

[IU Scott 2,375]

9 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

How about a lineup next year of X, JHS, Galloway, Geronimo, Race.

Bates, Leal, Gunn, & Banks, Duncomb 2nd team. I’m sure I’m missing some.

Hopefully we will pickup a couple in tbe transfer portal.  I have not seen enough from JG to just put him in the starting lineup unless he developed over the summer lime Johnnie Davis had.  Also need a backup PG for the second unit.

[Chris007 45,739]

3 minutes ago, Hooserfan1901 said:

Yea, me, smh, give me some respect

X, & Race are 15 pt guys, Galloway improves to 8 a game, Geronimo is close to 8-10, Bates too. That’s solid.

[IUc2016 7,121]

Just now, Chris007 said:

X, & Race are 15 pt guys, Galloway improves to 8 a game, Geronimo is close to 8-10, Bates too. That’s solid.

Need some true size, but yes I would be pretty happy with that roster