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[Scotty R 2,714]

6 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Trayce averaged 21/11 with 3 blocks in 35 mpg this past year. What do you want to wager that our starting 4 and 5 combined don’t average that production this upcoming season? 

Losing Trayce is an enormous loss but a lot of people seem to be underestimating it because “now Woodson gets to run the team offense he wants,” even though his approach to the portal this year says otherwise. 

I think Reneau and Ware will average double figures. I think Ware, Reneau and Sparks will average more than what TJD, Race and whoever backed them up last year.

[HoosierAloha 30,089]

11 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Trayce averaged 21/11 with 3 blocks in 35 mpg this past year. What do you want to wager that our starting 4 and 5 combined don’t average that production this upcoming season? 

Losing Trayce is an enormous loss but a lot of people seem to be underestimating it because “now Woodson gets to run the team offense he wants,” even though his approach to the portal this year says otherwise. 

I believe our 4 and 5 will get a combined 21/11 but probably in over 50 minutes. I do hope we snag a few good small wings in the portal to transition to a different offense. As it stands, we should at least be able to open up the lane a bit with Ware, Reneau, and Sparks being able to step out and not being as dominant as TJD 1' from the rim.

[Golfman25 6,068]

8 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

I think Reneau and Ware will average double figures. I think Ware, Reneau and Sparks will average more than what TJD, Race and whoever backed them up last year.

Any chance Ware takes more jump shots than TJD?  :)  

[Hoosierfan2017 22,618]

8 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

I think Reneau and Ware will average double figures. I think Ware, Reneau and Sparks will average more than what TJD, Race and whoever backed them up last year.

They’d have to average 12 ppg each to do that. It’s far more likely that none of the 3 average 12 ppg. But kudos on the eternal optimism. I’d think the past 20+ years of iubb would’ve killed that off 

[HoosierAloha 30,089]

10 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Hold up- you believe it “could be argued (which is another way of not really taking a stance)” that IU had much more talent even without X than most teams? And therefore it is coaching? - by the way, they still finished 2nd so what is your argument? They should have won the Big Ten without X if the coaching was good enough?  
 

“it could be argued” that Ohio St. Michigan and Michigan St. All had more than IU but all those coaches sucked more than Woody I guess. So Izzo and Holtman can coach either right?  Man, your coaching expectations are really high. So just like my other reply, how should we hire? 

Yes, IU arguably had as much talent as anyone in the Big 1.o last season. There is an argument that could be made that IU was the most talented team in the Big 1.o. What is my argument on finishing 2nd? Yes, IU finished T2 getting the third seed in the Big 1.o tourney in a down Big 1.o this past season. There was a way for IU to still win the Big 1.o without XJ but we reverted back to past seasons. You could put that on the players for getting all up in their feels or the coach for not correcting that last season and this season.

Those teams all had quite a bit of talent and it could be argued* they had more talent than IU. One has built up a little wiggle room with what he's been able to do over several decades, another has had a solid run to start his current tenure (wouldn't mine Woody having something similar for his first 4/5 seasons or until he moves on), and the other has a few Sweet 16s in the last couple of seasons.

So just like my other post, I would be perfectly happy with Woody stabilizing the program over the next handful of years before passing it on to the next coach to take us to the next level. I'm not sure expecting to finish towards the top of the Big 1.o each year and making the tourney is that high of expectations. I guess we could just keep reducing expectations until us just putting a team on the court would result in a packed Assembly Hall. I'm sure the administration would be happy with this.

Besides, it doesn't really matter what the coach does/doesn't do it's the fans fault we can't recruit the needed players.

[RaceToTheTop 27,464]

37 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I believe our 4 and 5 will get a combined 21/11 but probably in over 50 minutes. I do hope we snag a few good small wings in the portal to transition to a different offense. As it stands, we should at least be able to open up the lane a bit with Ware, Reneau, and Sparks being able to step out and not being as dominant as TJD 1' from the rim.

I have the Ware/Reneau projected at 23.4/12.2 for an over/under if they play 50 minutes next year (won't bore you with the calculations). Using Torvik's projected minutes per game which is 53.4, I have them projected to combine for 24.5/12.8.  Ware I have at 13.0 points and 6.7 rebounds if he plays the 27.6 minutes that Torvik projects, Reneau 11.5 and 6.1 if he plays the 24.8 that Torvik projects.

[RaceToTheTop 27,464]

25 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

Besides, it doesn't really matter what the coach does/doesn't do it's the fans fault we can't recruit the needed players.

At this point, I have no idea who you are trying to argue with since your sarcasm seems to be pointed at things people are only saying in your head.

[RaceToTheTop 27,464]

44 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

They’d have to average 12 ppg each to do that. It’s far more likely that none of the 3 average 12 ppg. But kudos on the eternal optimism. I’d think the past 20+ years of iubb would’ve killed that off 

FWIW, my projections -- if Ware plays 25 mpg, Reneau plays 25 mpg, and Sparks plays 20 -- would be a total of 31.8 points.  Torvik projects at those minute numbers they total 26.0 points if they play those minute totals.  Where Torvik and I differ greatly and why the numbers are so much different is that Torvik is predicting Galloway to be a have a much increased role in the offense -- average 12.1 points in about 31 minutes per game.  I project if he plays 31 minutes, he'll average 7.5, so the shots they are giving him I have more toward other players.

Of course this is all going to be subject to change depending on final roster.

[HoosierAloha 30,089]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

It was seeking understanding by the term competing. I associate the word with conference titles, Final Fours/nattys, or competing within a game. I would agree we were competing with being better than the previous season despite the hype and penning of a conference championship and Sweet 16 last summer. We didn't actually compete to hang anything in the Hall last season.

Even without knowing the entire roster my expectation for next season is not taking a step back. That can be different for different people. Unlike some, the Woody experiment can be a success if he stabilizes the program with good finishes in the Big 1.o, tourney appearances, and the program not falling off a cliff. Hopefully this puts IU in a much better place next time we go searching for a coach.

 

8 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I never said one thing about lowering expectations and for sure didn’t say a anything about the fans being at fault. That would be as crazy as thinking that you keeping high expectations has any effect on the administration smh. 

It is Year 2!! They lost “arguably” their most important player. They did not “arguably” have more talent than the rest. I already listed the teams that had more talent and with in your eyes “better coaches”’

It “could be argued” they overachieved given the talent and circumstances. 

So, even though you say you would be fine with Woody for 5 years, you don’t believe he is meeting expectations or will. So, who do you want as coach? 

Woah, you seem to be tossing some assumptions around all willy nilly.

Please quote me where I said I thought we had more talent than the rest of the Big 1.o. Arguably*, I never made the argument IU had more talent than the rest of the Big 1.o.

Please quote me where I said MSU, O$U, and Michigan had better coaches. I would love for Woody to win a natty or make the tourney 20 something years in a row like Izzo. I would be appreciative if Woody had IU consistently making the tourney like Holtmann did to start his tenure at O$U. I would even take a couple of Sweet 16s like Michigan.

Who I want and who we could pull are completely different things. Hopefully Woody can stabilize the program and some other magic can happen so when we go hunting for a new coach we have the ability to land someone who can take us to the next level.

Why would I think the administration would care about my [high] expectations. They're my [high] expectations. It's how I perceive the players and coaches to determine those [high] expectations.

When did just making the tourney become a high expectation?

[HoosierAloha 30,089]

2 hours ago, Scotty R said:

Well we finished second and lost in the second round so not to far off. Good for you but some people like being positive

 If we keep recycling coaches every few years then no it won't help anything. It seems like coaches come here and have recruiting.sicess for a couple of years but when the fans turn on the coach recruiting has gone down.

 

17 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

At this point, I have no idea who you are trying to argue with since your sarcasm seems to be pointed at things people are only saying in your head.

 

[RaceToTheTop 27,464]

28 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

 

so you are using an argument that another poster said in a discussion to someone that didn’t say that?  Just seems kind of silly to me.

[RaceToTheTop 27,464]

1 hour ago, Scotty R said:

I think Reneau and Ware will average double figures. I think Ware, Reneau and Sparks will average more than what TJD, Race and whoever backed them up last year.

I would disagree with that.  But I do think that 1-3 could average more than JHS,Gallo and Kopp did.  I think X outscores what JHS did, Gallo is around what Kopp did.  Third spot still to be determined.

[RaceToTheTop 27,464]

Ryan Langborn of Princeton commits to Northwestern.  Had a big NCAA tournament but outside of that was just an okay player.  For the season averaged 12.7 points, shooting 42/33.  In three years at Princeton averaged 10 points and shot 44/38.

[Scotty R 2,714]

5 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I would disagree with that.  But I do think that 1-3 could average more than JHS,Gallo and Kopp did.  I think X outscores what JHS did, Gallo is around what Kopp did.  Third spot still to be determined.

TJD 20.9 

Race 8.4 

Reneau 6.1 

Total 35.4

I feel like Ware, Reneau and Sparks should be close to that total 

[Honkyman 1,670]

12 hours ago, Woodson1980 said:

Banks was a very good shooter in highschool.

Banks may be a better 3-point shooter than Jordan Geronimo (2 for 5 versus 5 for 19), but he isn't a better perimeter shooter than Kopp (44.4% or 63 of 142 from 3).  Kopp has always been a primarily a 3-point shooter. Because he could reliably make 3-point shots, he forced opponents to guard him closely opening up the floor for TJD and JHS. Banks isn't that kind of player but it is the kind of player IU needs to play that position--the 3. On top of that, Banks like Geronimo, is not a particularly skilled ball handler. Obviously, he can improve his shooting and ball handling over the summer with lots of work. But not everyone is a Victor Oladipo.

[RaceToTheTop 27,464]

1 hour ago, Scotty R said:

TJD 20.9 

Race 8.4 

Reneau 6.1 

Total 35.4

I feel like Ware, Reneau and Sparks should be close to that total 

You moved the goal posts — last posts you said they would average more.

[Artie86 2,528]

I thought this was a thread about potential transfer portal players....? lol

[Joe_hoopsier 977]

44 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

You moved the goal posts — last posts you said they would average more.

So if they averaged 36, it would be both more and close.

Anybody got any more of them transfers?

[Scotty R 2,714]

53 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

You moved the goal posts — last posts you said they would average more.

Alright close 

Reneau 13.6

Ware 12.7 

Sparks 7.1 

Total 33.4 

My main point was that I feel if we are more balanced team and up grade the 2-4 positions we can still have a really good season. We still need to get some players in at the 2 and the 3 for that to come true.

[str8baller 6,086]

11 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

Apparently reading is a skill.  I'm not saying it was the thing to do.  But it was certainly 1 of two options. 

Yes, skill indeed. 
 

I’ll make this my last post on the subject and spell it out this time.  there weren’t two options. Only one. The illusion of a second option disappears upon inspection when one realizes how colossally misguided it would be.