Shooting Data - We get good shots, but we're bad at shooting

[Hillsdale87]

Interesting chart from 5th Factor Plots (@5th_Factor, https://twitter.com/5th_Factor/status/1346602906762567680) that I saw going around Twitter yesterday. It seems to statistically reinforce what we've seen in games this season, especially against Maryland. We get good shots, but we're just so bad at shooting. This chart actually indicates that we have nearly the best shot selection in the country coupled with nearly the worst shooting in the country. Quite a combo.

This should be in every recruiting pitch to guards. There are easy points to be had in the offense. Hopefully Parker Stewart is an answer, but we still need more shooters.

[rcbowla]

Interesting chart from 5th Factor Plots (@5th_Factor, https://twitter.com/5th_Factor/status/1346602906762567680) that I saw going around Twitter yesterday. It seems to statistically reinforce what we've seen in games this season, especially against Maryland. We get good shots, but we're just so bad at shooting. This chart actually indicates that we have nearly the best shot selection in the country coupled with nearly the worst shooting in the country. Quite a combo.
This should be in every recruiting pitch to guards. There are easy points to be had in the offense. Hopefully Parker Stewart is an answer, but we still need more shooters.

Saw this last night, believe USPS shared it somewhere, and it is interesting but..... I could make the argument that we get such good looks for a reason and that being that we are terrible at converting them therefore the defense allows us to shoot them. The counter is seeing the lane clogged up regularly making the "easy" shots more difficult.

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[Hillsdale87]

17 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

Saw this last night, believe USPS shared it somewhere, and it is interesting but..... I could make the argument that we get such good looks for a reason and that being that we are terrible at converting them therefore the defense allows us to shoot them. The counter is seeing the lane clogged up regularly making the "easy" shots more difficult.

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I think that's likely a contributing factor, and that if we had elite shooters that the shot selection wouldn't look quite so good. But I think we would still be well above average because if teams have to key on outside shooting, then that frees up space in the post, making those plays more efficient. 

IMO it's a helpful chart because it provides focus for what needs to be fixed. Our defense is good. Archie may not be an offensive wizard, but the offensive system is good enough. Just need to get the shooters. He's had enough time to go after shooters and has failed to this point, so he needs to fix that.

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

The (shot) doctor said he's coming but you gotta.....

Good teaser and rumor starter don't you think?

Mo Creek @Mo_Creek

I will be in Bloomington, Indiana For A Little Bit This Summer #StayTuned

[Trish]

BUT ARCHIE CAN'T COACH OFFENSE!

 

The offense gives us great looks. Is the defense letting us shoot? Maybe a small percentage that's a factor, but we get great actions off screens, post up's, kick-outs, and sometimes even transition. 

Players have to finish the plays. Get in the gym with one of our 15 student managers and SHOOT!  

[HoosierAloha]

BUT ARCHIE CAN'T COACH OFFENSE!
 
The offense gives us great looks. Is the defense letting us shoot? Maybe a small percentage that's a factor, but we get great actions off screens, post up's, kick-outs, and sometimes even transition. 
Players have to finish the plays. Get in the gym with one of our 15 student managers and SHOOT!  

There is truth in this but Archie has to bring in the shooters to make the shots if he wants to keep his job.

A lot more people would have a hard time dissing Archie’s offense if we actually had shooters making shots.


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[Trish]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

There is truth in this but Archie has to bring in the shooters to make the shots if he wants to keep his job.

A lot more people would have a hard time dissing Archie’s offense if we actually had shooters making shots.


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I agree with this. Things would be much more enjoyable for everyone if we could hit shots and win of course. Things are different if we do those. We're probably ranked and competing in the top 4 of the B1G. 

 

[Josh]

1 hour ago, Treesh said:

BUT ARCHIE CAN'T COACH OFFENSE!

 

The offense gives us great looks. Is the defense letting us shoot? Maybe a small percentage that's a factor, but we get great actions off screens, post up's, kick-outs, and sometimes even transition. 

Players have to finish the plays. Get in the gym with one of our 15 student managers and SHOOT!  

I've seen you post quite a few times that our players aren't spending enough time practicing on their own at Cook Hall.  Do you have knowledge of this?  Or is it just an assumption? 

[Trish]

35 minutes ago, Josh said:

I've seen you post quite a few times that our players aren't spending enough time practicing on their own at Cook Hall.  Do you have knowledge of this?  Or is it just an assumption? 

I wish I had direct knowledge of this, but it's an assumption. 

I think our shot mechanics are pretty darn good for a majority of players on the team. It's my most reasonable solution to improving our shooting! Archie can't spend entire practices in shooting lines, teams get limited instruction time per week. 

I wonder how many players are like Leal?

 

LEAL SHOOTS THE BASKETBALL

 

[ebridges24]

4 hours ago, Free Jurkin! said:

Interesting chart from 5th Factor Plots (@5th_Factor, https://twitter.com/5th_Factor/status/1346602906762567680) that I saw going around Twitter yesterday. It seems to statistically reinforce what we've seen in games this season, especially against Maryland. We get good shots, but we're just so bad at shooting. This chart actually indicates that we have nearly the best shot selection in the country coupled with nearly the worst shooting in the country. Quite a combo.

This should be in every recruiting pitch to guards. There are easy points to be had in the offense. Hopefully Parker Stewart is an answer, but we still need more shooters.

Not surprised by this.

[ebridges24]

3 hours ago, Free Jurkin! said:

I think that's likely a contributing factor, and that if we had elite shooters that the shot selection wouldn't look quite so good. But I think we would still be well above average because if teams have to key on outside shooting, then that frees up space in the post, making those plays more efficient. 

IMO it's a helpful chart because it provides focus for what needs to be fixed. Our defense is good. Archie may not be an offensive wizard, but the offensive system is good enough. Just need to get the shooters. He's had enough time to go after shooters and has failed to this point, so he needs to fix that.

Exactly, one benefits the other.

[HoosierAloha]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

I've seen you post quite a few times that our players aren't spending enough time practicing on their own at Cook Hall.  Do you have knowledge of this?  Or is it just an assumption? 

I couldn't tell you who is/was in Cook Hall the most.  However, I can tell you the times I was around Cook Hall I saw a lot of the players from the women's team coming and going.  That might have just been timing but almost every time I was there I saw the women's players.

[Jeff_Boy_Ardee]

I've seen you post quite a few times that our players aren't spending enough time practicing on their own at Cook Hall.  Do you have knowledge of this?  Or is it just an assumption? 

Is it anymore assumption than when you and others say Archie doesn’t emphasize or practice shooting or some phrase along those lines?


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[HoosierAloha]

58 minutes ago, Jeff_Boy_Ardee said:

Is it anymore assumption than when you and others say Archie doesn’t emphasize or practice shooting or some phrase along those lines?


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Whatever was/is or wasn't/isn't happening doesn't matter with these assumptions.  The bottom line is that our shooters aren't knocking down open shots that could relieve most of what is ailing us.  If Archie's emphasizing shooting during practice and we're still missing them...  If our players are getting tons of shooting on their own.. It doesn't matter.  What matters is them knocking them down when the lights come on.  Despite poor percentages I see glimpses.

The FT shooting has improved and has actually been the difference in the last few games.  A player (Hunter vs. Maryland, Durham vs. psu, Franklin vs. Ill, Galloway vs. NW) has stepped up and knocked down multiple threes with good to great percentages in the last handful of games.  We need the player that is open to knockdown the shot moving forward.  This will absolutely change the offense and force spacing for Race and Trayce to work inside.  If we ever get consistent shooting from our current guards we could be an upper half of the conference type team.  They just have to prove it. 

Against Maryland, there were at least 5 threes that rattled out, barely missed long or short that could have changed that game significantly.  The players have to 1) take good shots within the flow of the offense and 2) hit those shots to force defenses to guard out past the line. 

[schoosier]

It’s hard to coach shooting unless your Dick Baumgartner lol. Look him up but he was a shooting guru in his prime and “cleaned up” (his term)  a lot of pro players and others shots. Most of these players had a good shot at sometime in the careers to be fair. Dick used to sell a bball with a hand print on it and a circle for the off thumb to be placed. It works.

Shooting is about reps plain and simple. Just look at Larry Legend coming early before games and staying late afterwards. Has TJD improved his shooting this year? Al, Rob? I would say no. How about Race and Franklin? I would say yes but I’m not trying to throw shade on the others mentioned. I feel esp bad for TJD because he gets mugged every game since we cannot shoot.
 

While Archie cannot make his players practice shooting in their off time, he still recruited these players that really struggle at this part of the game. I do have other concerns with how much these players bulk up at IU and how this too can affect shooting as well as overall health like back issues. But overall coming out of high school, the coach at Indiana should have no questions whether a recruit is a good or great shooter or a project like Victor. For that look no further than our 5 million $ man.

[Stuhoo]

FWIW, I have no worries about added muscle hindering shooting—I believe that’s a complete myth.

Pretty sure LeBron can out shoot and out weight-lift any of them. For that matter, most all of the NBA can out shoot and out weight-lift any of them.

[Josh]

3 hours ago, Jeff_Boy_Ardee said:

Is it anymore assumption than when you and others say Archie doesn’t emphasize or practice shooting or some phrase along those lines?


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Well, I've never said that so I certainly can't comment on your deflection 

[Alford Bailey]

1 hour ago, schoosier said:

It’s hard to coach shooting unless your Dick Baumgartner lol. Look him up but he was a shooting guru in his prime and “cleaned up” (his term)  a lot of pro players and others shots. Most of these players had a good shot at sometime in the careers to be fair. Dick used to sell a bball with a hand print on it and a circle for the off thumb to be placed. It works.

Shooting is about reps plain and simple. Just look at Larry Legend coming early before games and staying late afterwards. Has TJD improved his shooting this year? Al, Rob? I would say no. How about Race and Franklin? I would say yes but I’m not trying to throw shade on the others mentioned. I feel esp bad for TJD because he gets mugged every game since we cannot shoot.
 

While Archie cannot make his players practice shooting in their off time, he still recruited these players that really struggle at this part of the game. I do have other concerns with how much these players bulk up at IU and how this too can affect shooting as well as overall health like back issues. But overall coming out of high school, the coach at Indiana should have no questions whether a recruit is a good or great shooter or a project like Victor. For that look no further than our 5 million $ man.

Met Dick and know his son, daughter and son in law well. My daughter attended a shooting clinic of his in Richmond. It was a true family affair with lots of relatives helping out.

[Alford Bailey]

Ive said this clear back to the Romeo days. We get good looks but we dont have guys who can hit them or the wrong guy is taking the shot. In short we get shots but its still not working.

[RaceToTheTop]

Honestly, the ball movement has been better this year than in the past.

And while I agree with AlfordBailey that in the past the wrong guy is taking the shot, we have one guy shooting 48% from three and the rest are bunched together in the mid 20s to mid 30s.  So the only guy that is a must from three is Franklin....and we need to keep in mind that he was a bad distance shooter last year and was 2 of 12 through 5 games.  Since he started hitting, he's been taking 6 threes per game and 12 1/2 shots per game (I didn't include the Maryland game since he barely played).

The guys who are the players we want shooting the ball are doing so -- TJD inside and Franklin on the perimeter.  At this point, the question is when Franklin is out, who is option #2 after TJD?  I have no clue.