What Can IUBB do to Revive Your Excitement/Confidence?

[Golfman25 4,793]

3 hours ago, craigyv88 said:

My only expectations or aspirations at this time are to beat Purdue, be competitive night in and night out, and just be in the tournament regardless of seed.  Just those things alone would restore excitement and confidence for me, but they have been tough to come by.

I’m not on the fire Archie train yet and I would like for him to succeed, but to throw out a name just for fun, how about the coach that beat us last night?  That may sound like being a prisoner of the moment but I was a proponent of Chris Collins getting a hard look when the job was open in 2017 and he had just taken NW to the tournament for the first time ever.  He has a solid coaching pedigree and background having spent 13 years as an assistant at Duke prior to getting the NW job, and his father was a long-time coach in the NBA.  And, if you throw out last year where NW’s rotation was primarily freshman/sophomores and a lacrosse player, his win pct at Northwestern is not all that different than Archie’s at IU (.520 vs .571) and he has a tournament victory in the past four seasons, something that can’t be said about CAM or CTC.   NW has also lost a lot of close games in recent years so that win pct could easily be a bit better.  His teams have an identity on offense and play hard.

Finally, Collins is an underrated recruiter with strong ties to the Chicago area that date back to before his time at NW.  Robbie Beran, Miller Kopp, and Pete Nance were all 4-star recruits and 2021 commit Casey Simmons is as well.  NW also received consideration from top-5 national prospect Pat Baldwin Jr and Collins was involved in some big-time recruitments while at Duke.

Not saying we need to pull the plug on Archie and throw big money at Collins ASAP, but he has always intrigued me as a coaching prospect and always struck me as a better coach than what he’s  given credit for.

I like Chris too.  He's handcuffed at NW and they just spanked MSU and us.  The dude has forgotten more basketball than Archie knows.  He grew up with some of the best players/coaches ever to play basketball -- early MJ and Tex Winter.  Son of a coach and played/coached under K.  It's a pretty good resume.  Although, my hunch is he'll bail for the Duke job.    

[Golfman25 4,793]

Simple answer to the question.  Adopt the Princeton Offense, tonight.  At least is something of an offensive philosophy, which is more than they have now.    :) 

[TheWatShot 13,364]

We've heard Tom Allen speak to the team after games this season. Why don't we ever hear Archie Miller talk to his team? Would it put everyone to sleep? Is Archie just a dick and doesn't want anyone in the locker room? 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,994]

Yeah, this Priller/fanbase back and forth isn’t ideal. I can see both sides of argument. The coach needs to put a better product on the court. Recruit better players that can mostly live up fanbases expectations. Players that are successful get godlike treatment so it’s not just about singular wins and losses. I garner my issues towards the coach over the player, 100%.


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[TheWatShot 13,364]

36 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

 

IU fans supported terrible teams for Crean’s first three years because they went out and played hard every night. 

This is going to veer slightly off topic, but no, they didn't. There were plenty of games in Years 2 and 3 where the team just mailed it in. The home loss to Iowa where we scored 43 points comes to mind. "Has Tom Crean lost another team?" was an annual thread title that even made an appearance during Zeller's freshman year. I think our fans have selective memories when it comes to those teams because the following two seasons were so much better. That doesn't excuse some of the performances we've seen in this era, but Crean's teams most certainly did not play hard every night. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,994]

We've heard Tom Allen speak to the team after games this season. Why don't we ever hear Archie Miller talk to his team? Would it put everyone to sleep? Is Archie just a dick and doesn't want anyone in the locker room? 

I like seeing the Tom Allen stuff because it works for PR but I don’t think it’s a necessary task of the coach to be able to give PG pre or post game talks the public can hear.

On that note, the more telling signs have been the senior nights or lack thereof. Very interested to see if the kids Archie recruited respond to him better or even thank him. I’m not sure he’s been acknowledged yet.


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[Hoosierfan2017 19,944]

28 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

This is going to veer slightly off topic, but no, they didn't. There were plenty of games in Years 2 and 3 where the team just mailed it in. The home loss to Iowa where we scored 43 points comes to mind. "Has Tom Crean lost another team?" was an annual thread title that even made an appearance during Zeller's freshman year. I think our fans have selective memories when it comes to those teams because the following two seasons were so much better. That doesn't excuse some of the performances we've seen in this era, but Crean's teams most certainly did not play hard every night. 

Oh sorry that’s my bad then

[NashvilleHoosier 3,636]

59 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Culture and player development. Archie isn’t great at either of those. Allen is. 

Yeah, to @Golfman25's point, you're kind of contradicting yourself here. We're being held back by the administration, who should just hire someone and let them cheat, yet you acknowledge that our (far less attractive, far less supported, far less historically relevant) football program can be successful under the same administration under a coach who instills a great culture and player development? 

I asked about this earlier but I'm not fully following what people are referring to when its insinuated that our struggles in basketball start with the administration. Is that really what people mean? The administration prefers someone who runs the program clean, and therefore, it's understood that you cannot be a successful program in college hoops unless you indeed cheat? 

[LamarCheeks 16,988]

I haven't read through this thread -- and really don't want to -- but I'm simply answering the question posed in the title: What can IU BB do to revive your excitement/Confidence? 

My response: Go unbeaten and win an NCAA title! 



 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,944]

48 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Yeah, to @Golfman25's point, you're kind of contradicting yourself here. We're being held back by the administration, who should just hire someone and let them cheat, yet you acknowledge that our (far less attractive, far less supported, far less historically relevant) football program can be successful under the same administration under a coach who instills a great culture and player development? 

I asked about this earlier but I'm not fully following what people are referring to when its insinuated that our struggles in basketball start with the administration. Is that really what people mean? The administration prefers someone who runs the program clean, and therefore, it's understood that you cannot be a successful program in college hoops unless you indeed cheat? 

Archie is a decent coach but he’s not elite. If he was an elite coach then culture/player development could get us where we want to be. But, he’s not that. When you’re not an elite coach, and your administration won’t let you play in the gray area like other schools do, then you’re fighting an uphill battle. If IU let Archie operate like his brother does at Arizona I think Archie could get us similar results. 

If I am being honest, I really don’t know how exactly Tom Allen has done it. I don’t pay as much attention to football out of season as I do basketball, so idk what all Allen has been doing in the off seasons to get us where we are. It’s nothing short of a miracle to have IU football in the position that we’re in today. I was not a fan and thought he was way too goofy, but he has shut me up. Whatever he’s doing is working. I’d love for Archie to do the same, but I’m not seeing it.  

[Stuhoo 76,162]

12 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Archie is a decent coach but he’s not elite. If he was an elite coach then culture/player development could get us where we want to be. But, he’s not that. When you’re not an elite coach, and your administration won’t let you play in the gray area like other schools do, then you’re fighting an uphill battle. If IU let Archie operate like his brother does at Arizona I think Archie could get us similar results. 

If I am being honest, I really don’t know how exactly Tom Allen has done it. I don’t pay as much attention to football out of season as I do basketball, so idk what all Allen has been doing in the off seasons to get us where we are. It’s nothing short of a miracle to have IU football in the position that we’re in today. I was not a fan and thought he was way too goofy, but he has shut me up. Whatever he’s doing is working. I’d love for Archie to do the same, but I’m not seeing it.  

I have a pretty fair idea what Tom Allen is doing right. At the risk of oversimplifying:

He is inspiring the living daylights out of his staff and his team.

 

[Trish 11,417]

7 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

We didn’t make the dance last year. It’s not Archie’s fault that the tournament got canceled, but it is his fault that we went 9-11 in the conference. We’ve finished worse in the conference each of his three years so far. We’ve went from t-6th to 9th to t-10th. There was no need for a complete rebuild when Archie took over. Our team wasn’t great but we didn’t have terrible players either. We landed Romeo, which should have ended the rebuild right there, but we missed the tournament with him too. Tom Allen has freaking IU football in the top 10 in the nation. Archie Miller can’t even get IU in the top ten of our own conference. 
 

Do I want to sit through another rebuild? No. But I also don’t want to sit through another bad year like the past three. If Archie can’t get the job done, and he sure hasn’t looked like he can get the job done so far, then firing him and hiring a new coach will be the only answer. He’s in a worse position in year 4 than Tom Crean was, and Crean actually had to do a complete rebuild. All of Archie’s recruiting momentum is gone. He has whiffed on target after target in the 2021 class. I see no reason not to expect next year to be more of the same mediocrity. 
 

And if it’s not the NBA where coaches can step right in and succeed, why have we seen other coaches do that? Chris Mack made the tournament in his first season at Louisville and then went 15-5 and finished second in the ACC in his second season. It seems like IU is the only place where multi-year rebuilds are the norm. 

Fair points and of course the only solutions would be to win or to fire him. Well didn't Chris Mack compared to Archie's first year at Indiana? I mean go ahead and take a look at Indiana's roster Archie's first year. 

https://iuhoosiers.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/2017-18

That's a pretty sorry roster. This was the roster Crean was going to come into the year with.. including no Romeo the following year if CTC would've been retained. 

Nonetheless, I'm not sold on the idea of Archie needing fired. Next year will be probably be the final examination of Archie as a whole. We'll be returning everyone minus Al. growth of Trey and Kristian will be critical. We'll see how the grad transfer turns out including our incoming freshman center, Logan. Things could be worse and yes we have the right to be upset. 

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

3 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Fair points and of course the only solutions would be to win or to fire him. Well didn't Chris Mack compared to Archie's first year at Indiana? I mean go ahead and take a look at Indiana's roster Archie's first year. 

https://iuhoosiers.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/2017-18

That's a pretty sorry roster. This was the roster Crean was going to come into the year with.. including no Romeo the following year if CTC would've been retained. 

Nonetheless, I'm not sold on the idea of Archie needing fired. Next year will be probably be the final examination of Archie as a whole. We'll be returning everyone minus Al. growth of Trey and Kristian will be critical. We'll see how the grad transfer turns out including our incoming freshman center, Logan. Things could be worse and yes we have the right to be upset. 

That roster was sorry yet it’s the only roster that was able to be .500 in big ten play.  And frankly our current roster is pretty much just as sorry.  

[Trish 11,417]

6 hours ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

This is supposed to be the year with TJD. After this year we almost certainly lose him and have no immediate replacement. I would say if we can't have moderate success this year it isn't looking any better next year and Archie will start to be on the hot seat. Lot of bball to play this year but based on what we've seen its hard to imagine this team being over .500 in the BIG. 

TJD isn't ready for the league. He's not even near the 1st round and at best he'd be a G-League / Camp invite player. He can't shoot, he still can't finish around the rim that he would need to in the league. Defensively he still has a ways to go guarding the little guys. 

Remember Morgan? Yeah he didn't even get drafted and he could play a little PG, shoot the 3 a little, and defend most positions in college. He worked hard in the G-League. Got the right fit with the right organization and now he's a rotational player for the Utah Jazz!

TJD will be back at Indiana next year. He loves Bloomington and IU. 

[Trish 11,417]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

That roster was sorry yet it’s the only roster that was able to be .500 in big ten play.  And frankly our current roster is pretty much just as sorry.  

I'd argue this team is more talented than that team, and way more disappointing. Hunter's injury, Rob not panning out, Al... I don't even know how to describe Al even more. 

Sometimes I wonder how Joey would help and or hurt us. 

[Uspshoosier 44,415]

6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

That roster was sorry yet it’s the only roster that was able to be .500 in big ten play.  And frankly our current roster is pretty much just as sorry.  

This is a case where looks are deceiving.  The B1G that year only got 4 teams in the tourney.   That roster went 9-9 in B1G play with 7 of those 9 wins coming against the bottom 5 teams with a combine B1G record of 21-69.   Best win in the B1G that year was against Penn St who went 9-9

The IU teams that finished under .500 in conference after that had way more impressive wins  in conference despite finishing under .500 

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

3 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

This is a case where looks are deceiving.  The B1G that year only got 4 teams in the tourney.   That roster went 9-9 in B1G play with 7 of those 9 wins coming against the bottom 5 teams with a combine B1G record of 21-69.   Best win in the B1G that year was against Penn St who went 9-9

The IU teams that finished under .500 in conference after that had way more impressive wins  in conference despite finishing under .500 

Which begs the question why all these other big ten teams are getting better faster

[Uspshoosier 44,415]

16 minutes ago, Treesh said:

TJD isn't ready for the league. He's not even near the 1st round and at best he'd be a G-League / Camp invite player. He can't shoot, he still can't finish around the rim that he would need to in the league. Defensively he still has a ways to go guarding the little guys. 

Remember Morgan? Yeah he didn't even get drafted and he could play a little PG, shoot the 3 a little, and defend most positions in college. He worked hard in the G-League. Got the right fit with the right organization and now he's a rotational player for the Utah Jazz!

TJD will be back at Indiana next year. He loves Bloomington and IU. 

TJD does love IU and Bloomington but if he comes back next year that would be the  biggest recruiting win in Archie’s time at IU.  From everything I have heard there is no chance he is back.  

[Golfman25 4,793]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Which begs the question why all these other big ten teams are getting better faster

Obvioulsy cheating.  

[NashvilleHoosier 3,636]

1 hour ago, Uspshoosier said:

TJD does love IU and Bloomington but if he comes back next year that would be the  biggest recruiting win in Archie’s time at IU.  From everything I have heard there is no chance he is back.  

This couldn’t wait until December 26th? All we wanted for....

kidding, of course