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Magnanimous

Has Archie said anything?

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29 minutes ago, hoosierbgh said:

No, actually it's far more perceptive and thought out than the reactionary takes he so frequently posts and he's absolutely correct. Archie has every right to express himself or not about any issue he chooses. He doesn't need to join the virtue signaling mob just because some get off on telling others how they should feel or demonstrate those feelings. 

Personally, I'd much rather see Archie concentrate on supporting his players than do a PR stunt like Calipari, one that seems less sincere and more of a calculated move designed to help him find more kids to exploit. Better to be silent and sincere than to corrupt a tragedy into a chance for personal gain.

You're conveniently leaving out the part where he said "ALL of these celebrities, coaches, athletes and companies are just doing PR stunts..." which is simply  miserable and completely short-sighted. Of course Archie has the right to speak out or choose not to, make a statement, or talk to his players in private. But to suggest that by saying something publicly is just "joining a virtue signaling mob" is also very short-sighted. Some people are virtue signaling, yes. Some are doing PR stunts. But the majority speaking out just have a larger platform and are saying and doing what millions of others who just don't have a similar platform are saying and doing as well. To suggest its ALL PR stunts or just a virtue signaling mob is, putting it nicely, short-sighted. 

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1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Interesting, and a point of discussion well made. 

I think my problem with Loaded's post was that he said that ALL public figures who were speaking out were doing so as a PR stunt. Do some speak out to be, as you say "virtue signaling?" I believe so. But, just because some may do that does not mean that public leaders cannot speak out when they feel the need to go on the record with their thoughts.

So Tom Allen (for instance) has a long history of publicly leading on interpersonal issues he believes in. When a national monster-sized issue that is directly related to his lifelong thoughts is open for discussion, his public take is not a PR stunt in any way in my opinion.

That's the problem with reactionary takes; they lose all context and disparage those who are truly invested in improving society from their corner of it.

 

Fair enough. I would point out though that those like Tom Allen, who is certainly not the only one, live it every day. It is great that they choose to speak out when they feel the need to but ultimately it is their actions when the spotlight is not on them that speak the loudest. I would also point out that no one has argued that anyone shouldn't speak out if they felt the need to, only that they don't have to. 

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Im sure Archie has had discussions with his team and staff about the ongoing issues in our country. I don’t think a public statement is needed to be made. I think a lot of it seems superficial at times and we all know Archie doesn’t BS when it comes to anything. He’s a very private person. He’s done something behind the scenes. 
 

That being said, a lot of AD, coaches, and players have done a great job at voicing their concerns and issues on this topic. 

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4 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

You're conveniently leaving out the part where he said "ALL of these celebrities, coaches, athletes and companies are just doing PR stunts..." which is simply  miserable and completely short-sighted. Of course Archie has the right to speak out or choose not to, make a statement, or talk to his players in private. But to suggest that by saying something publicly is just "joining a virtue signaling mob" is also very short-sighted. Some people are virtue signaling, yes. Some are doing PR stunts. But the majority speaking out just have a larger platform and are saying and doing what millions of others who just don't have a similar platform are saying and doing as well. To suggest its ALL PR stunts or just a virtue signaling mob is, putting it nicely, short-sighted. 

Let's not be too pedantic, you're fixating on his hyperbolic use of "all" to discredit his entire point, which is a valid one. We'll never know exactly what the percentage of sincere people to those with ulterior motives is but it's not even relevant. It is no fairer to judge the motives of those that choose not to speak publicly than it is to judge the motives of those that do. It is important that Archie, and by extension anyone else, has the right but not the requirement to comment publicly or not as they see fit. It is even more important that those like Tom Allen continue to live it regardless of commenting publicly. IMO, too many people are focused on who is or isn't saying what, that the real message is getting lost. 

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7 minutes ago, hoosierbgh said:

Let's not be too pedantic, you're fixating on his hyperbolic use of "all" to discredit his entire point, which is a valid one. We'll never know exactly what the percentage of sincere people to those with ulterior motives is but it's not even relevant. It is no fairer to judge the motives of those that choose not to speak publicly than it is to judge the motives of those that do. It is important that Archie, and by extension anyone else, has the right but not the requirement to comment publicly or not as they see fit. It is even more important that those like Tom Allen continue to live it regardless of commenting publicly. IMO, too many people are focused on who is or isn't saying what, that the real message is getting lost. 

Alright, I award bonus points for the excellent use of the word pedantic. Fair points. I do agree that too many people are focused on who is or isn't saying something and not focusing on the actual message. But I also think, as with most things, words matter so much on a topic like this. Yes I'm fixating on the use of the word "all" b/c its very dangerous to use that word. It may seem trivial, but it can quickly lead to a dismissal of the entire subject and, like you are saying, the real message is lost. From there, we end up repeating the cycle over and over again. I'll stop there, as I know this thread could easily spin out of control. 

Also, maybe I'm missing something, but I felt the video the team did, with Archie closing it out at the end, was perfectly fine as a response/comment. I don't see that as him not commenting at all, simply b/c he didn't make his own personal statement. He chose to involve his team in an act of solidarity and togetherness, and likely had much deeper conversations in private. Perfectly fine in my opinion. 

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Interesting, and a point of discussion well made. 
I think my problem with Loaded's post was that he said that ALL public figures who were speaking out were doing so as a PR stunt. Do some speak out to be, as you say "virtue signaling?" I believe so. But, just because some may do that does not mean that public leaders cannot speak out when they feel the need to go on the record with their thoughts.
So Tom Allen (for instance) has a long history of publicly leading on interpersonal issues he believes in. When a national monster-sized issue that is directly related to his lifelong thoughts is open for discussion, his public take is not a PR stunt in any way in my opinion.
That's the problem with reactionary takes; they lose all context and disparage those who are truly invested in improving society from their corner of it.
 

And more power to Tom Allen. It’s a good thing. But I still thinks it’s a PR stunt, even if it’s one with good intentions. But he’s wanting to be seen and be seen doing something with good intention. And I don’t think he has any bad intent or is trying to fill his ego. But could just be to show he cares for his guys in his locker room.


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3 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Alright, I award bonus points for the excellent use of the word pedantic. Fair points. I do agree that too many people are focused on who is or isn't saying something and not focusing on the actual message. But I also think, as with most things, words matter so much on a topic like this. Yes I'm fixating on the use of the word "all" b/c its very dangerous to use that word. It may seem trivial, but it can quickly lead to a dismissal of the entire subject and, like you are saying, the real message is lost. From there, we end up repeating the cycle over and over again. I'll stop there, as I know this thread could easily spin out of control. 

Also, maybe I'm missing something, but I felt the video the team did, with Archie closing it out at the end, was perfectly fine as a response/comment. I don't see that as him not commenting at all, simply b/c he didn't make his own personal statement. He chose to involve his team in an act of solidarity and togetherness, and likely had much deeper conversations in private. Perfectly fine in my opinion. 

The part in bold is exactly the point I was largely trying to make, I just didn't do it as succinctly as you. Words should matter I agree but so does context and experience with the source. Unless you are speaking of a subset of people approaching one, "all" is rarely going to be the accurate way to describe them yet often people do so, ether for emphasis or because they tend to hyperbole. No, I don't think it's trivial at all, that is exactly the danger when someone communicates in hyperbole mo'st (I had to catch myself here as I was tempted to use "all" instead of most) of the time. In any case you're also correct in that the conversation has ran it's course.

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2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I certainly understand why Archie hasn’t commented. I feel like I have something to say on the topic. But I don’t want to make it about a white guy.  So I’m being supportive but saying very little.  

He has commented. He was the closing of the IU Basketball video. I also kind of view the video as a whole as Archie commenting. I obviously don't know who's idea the video was, but at the end of the day something like that would ultimately have to be greenlighted/approved by Archie. 

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3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

He has commented. He was the closing of the IU Basketball video. I also kind of view the video as a whole as Archie commenting. I obviously don't know who's idea the video was, but at the end of the day something like that would ultimately have to be greenlighted/approved by Archie. 

Think I missed that vid.

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6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Think I missed that vid.

I think the link is in this thread somewhere. Last week IU basketball posted a video to social media. It starts with Race Thompson (since he's from Minny), has bunch of other guys in it and then end with Archie Miller speaking. 

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10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I think the link is in this thread somewhere. Last week IU basketball posted a video to social media. It starts with Race Thompson (since he's from Minny), has bunch of other guys in it and then end with Archie Miller speaking. 

Oh wow missed that. Thought it was just a tweet with a pic. 

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I think the link is in this thread somewhere. Last week IU basketball posted a video to social media. It starts with Race Thompson (since he's from Minny), has bunch of other guys in it and then end with Archie Miller speaking. 

I thought it was perfect, all things considered.

Our society right now is just upside down. I went to schools that were majority, minority. I’ve always have had a soft spot for what African Americans have to deal with. I’ve always done everything in my power to educate and explain what they deal with, with people who don’t realize it.

What I don’t do is judge everyone by what they are doing or not doing on social media. It’s backwards. If all these people were living by this mantra in the past we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place. Anyway, I’m excited to see this issue gaining traction by those that don’t think issues exist. But importantly, this should not be an excuse for Illegal activities or “payback” type crimes.

It’s always been as simple as “treat others as you want to be treated”. Hopefully as a result of this more people will live by that code.


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22 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:


I thought it was perfect, all things considered.

Our society right now is just upside down. I went to schools that were majority, minority. I’ve always have had a soft spot for what African Americans have to deal with. I’ve always done everything in my power to educate and explain what they deal with, with people who don’t realize it.

What I don’t do is judge everyone by what they are doing or not doing on social media. It’s backwards. If all these people were living by this mantra in the past we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place. Anyway, I’m excited to see this issue gaining traction by those that don’t think issues exist. But importantly, this should not be an excuse for Illegal activities or “payback” type crimes.

It’s always been as simple as “treat others as you want to be treated”. Hopefully as a result of this more people will live by that code.


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I like your whole post doc, but I'll add a comment on the first part, which is the thread at hand.

 

I also thought Archie's video appearance was perfect, because it was very much in character with who Archie Miller is; no nonsense, not especially emotional, to the point, accurate. Substance over style. 

Tom Allen? Also true to his character -- full of passion and heartfelt intensity.

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In case anybody missed it (and it appears some have), here's the IU basketball video on racism/Black Lives Matter. 

And I think I've figured out the speakers (in order). If I've misidentified anyone, please feel free to correct me (as if you need my OK to  correct me -- LOL!). I was a little unsure of who followed Franklin. 

Race Thompson
Cooper Bybee 
Al Durham
Anthony Leal 
Mike Roberts 
Armaan Franklin
Michael Shipp
Trayce Jackson-Davis
Tom Ostrum
Rob Phinisee
Nathan Childress
Jacquez Henderson
Bill Comar 
Bruiser Flynt
Clif Marshall
Jerome  Hunter
Joey Brunk
Archie Miller

 

 

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2 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:


I thought it was perfect, all things considered.

Our society right now is just upside down. I went to schools that were majority, minority. I’ve always have had a soft spot for what African Americans have to deal with. I’ve always done everything in my power to educate and explain what they deal with, with people who don’t realize it.

What I don’t do is judge everyone by what they are doing or not doing on social media. It’s backwards. If all these people were living by this mantra in the past we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place. Anyway, I’m excited to see this issue gaining traction by those that don’t think issues exist. But importantly, this should not be an excuse for Illegal activities or “payback” type crimes.

It’s always been as simple as “treat others as you want to be treated”. Hopefully as a result of this more people will live by that code.


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I thought it was really well done too, because it was collaborative with the team. It would have been really easy for Archie to post some text image denouncing racism, as so many other coaches did. But no, he included his entire team/staff in a collaborative way and didn't make it about himself. True leadership. 

Though as with anything, the proof will be any steps they take beyond just making a video. 

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