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Class of '66 Old Fart

Coronavirus and Its Impact

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1 minute ago, maharkn said:

Only thing I am worried about is people stupidity. Stay home don't go to walmart because you are bored. Don't bring your kids to walmart. I work at wal-mart and all day everyday it's people coming in just to buy one or two things and they are bringing their kids in and then I will see them again the next day doing the same thing. We are essentially just killing each other and not caring

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It's certainly not the only thing I worry about, but 1000% agree with you on that.  Was happy to see that it looks like Wal-Mart is now limiting the number of customers that can be in the store at one time.

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The U.S. numbers do not fall in line with flu numbers in either cases or deaths, especially considering that the amount of precautions that have occurred for the coronavirus.

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It's certainly not the only thing I worry about, but 1000% agree with you on that.  Was happy to see that it looks like Wal-Mart is now limiting the number of customers that can be in the store at one time.
Sort of. 5 people per 1000 square feet which in the small store I work in is still 550 people

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4 minutes ago, maharkn said:

Sort of. 5 people per 1000 square feet which in the small store I work in is still 550 people

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Do they not include employees in the count?  If not, that's a shame.

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9 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I’m not so sure of that. Our federal response is basically non existent. We have 50 different states with 50 different solutions.
 

They are dipping into federal stockpiles but without Rhyme or reason some states are getting more stuff than they asked for. Others are getting broken equipment. 
 

The hospital ships apparently are restricting who is allowed on. 

PPE is scarce yet they haven’t barred foreign sales or been proactive in mandating increased production. 
 

Which leaves the states on their own. Some have handled this well. California and Washington. Others not so much Louisiana and Florida.  
 

New York probably an average response so far. They should have shut down sooner. 

This is how the country's set up, though.  State's rights.  That dates back to the reason the US was settled in the first place.  I'm not trying to be combative, but the federal government's budget is filtered into 2 basic categories.  Mandatory spending (which is about 60% of the overall budget), and discretionary spending (about 35%), and the other 5% goes toward interest payments.

Mandatory spending is social security, medicare, medicaid, etc.  Those programs eat up about 90% of mandatory spending.

Of the discretionary spending (which is where stockpiles would come from), military / defense receives about 55% of that.  The budget is ~ $1.1 trillion in 2020.  So military gets ~ $650 billion, and it needs to.   By the time you add in international spending, transportation, things like farm subsidies/agriculture, housing benefits, veterans' benefits, environmental spending (for which lobbyists apply incredible pressure), etc., there's just not much room for "disaster preparation / pandemic preparation."   It's easy in hindsight to say what should have happened, but go talk to the lobbyists who said where the money should go.  Nobody lobbies for pandemic preparation because it hasn't happened like this in 103 years.  States hold responsibility for their citizens on this more than feds do.  The point is, funding simply hasn't been in the federal budget to build national stockpiles because many states have fallen short and it hasn't been a priority.  Easy to say now "it damned well should have been."  Well, we live and we learn.  And sometimes, the lessons suck.

We have barred international sales.  What we didn't do was take back the stuff we had already committed to send.   States aren't "on their own."  They're being held to their place in the constitution, and when they aren't prepared, they turn to the federal government to bail them out, and sadly, the federal government wasn't prepared any more than the states were.  Like I said before, that's not Trump's fault.  That's not Obama's fault.   It's systemic.   States are short on money in large part due to stupid tax breaks they give businesses for moving there.  Northern Indiana (via lobby to the state) did that years ago to attract the RV industry to Elkhart county and eventually had to build their part of the toll road because that was one way to re-coup the money they'd given away, and the RV folks all use that road.   That was smart.  Casinos were smarter, and Indiana's okay.  Not all states have done even that much, and others just have too much other spending (New York has a whole lot of entitlement programs and lots of pork, as an example), so they're not prepared either.  Some states are flat @$$ broke.  Indiana's had decent leadership, so we're not.  And we're generally prepared, not in need of as much federal aid.  New York?   A sh*t show.

The overall point is this pandemic was on nobody's radar, and the states have to blame themselves first.  Probably no one particular administration, but there was nobody in charge of "triage federal stockpile medical equipment to send to states in case of a pandemic that hits us in a blink of an eye."   It's unrealistic to think there would have been.  This was going to be a clusterbomb regardless of who was in the White House or running the NIH.

Oh, and COVID patients were accidentally taken to the ship in NY tocay, which is why they are now being careful about who gets on.   That's a clusterbomb, too.  Cuomo hasn't done well at all, despite his constant complaining about other people.

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Re:  states rights.....

it’s funny how many ‘state’s rights’ issues have been over ridden (not just by this administration, but historically) by executive order....yet when it comes to covid 19, it’s not a consideration.

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8 hours ago, Old Friend said:

This is how the country's set up, though.  State's rights.  That dates back to the reason the US was settled in the first place.  I'm not trying to be combative, but the federal government's budget is filtered into 2 basic categories.  Mandatory spending (which is about 60% of the overall budget), and discretionary spending (about 35%), and the other 5% goes toward interest payments.

Mandatory spending is social security, medicare, medicaid, etc.  Those programs eat up about 90% of mandatory spending.

Of the discretionary spending (which is where stockpiles would come from), military / defense receives about 55% of that.  The budget is ~ $1.1 trillion in 2020.  So military gets ~ $650 billion, and it needs to.   By the time you add in international spending, transportation, things like farm subsidies/agriculture, housing benefits, veterans' benefits, environmental spending (for which lobbyists apply incredible pressure), etc., there's just not much room for "disaster preparation / pandemic preparation."   It's easy in hindsight to say what should have happened, but go talk to the lobbyists who said where the money should go.  Nobody lobbies for pandemic preparation because it hasn't happened like this in 103 years.  States hold responsibility for their citizens on this more than feds do.  The point is, funding simply hasn't been in the federal budget to build national stockpiles because many states have fallen short and it hasn't been a priority.  Easy to say now "it damned well should have been."  Well, we live and we learn.  And sometimes, the lessons suck.

We have barred international sales.  What we didn't do was take back the stuff we had already committed to send.   States aren't "on their own."  They're being held to their place in the constitution, and when they aren't prepared, they turn to the federal government to bail them out, and sadly, the federal government wasn't prepared any more than the states were.  Like I said before, that's not Trump's fault.  That's not Obama's fault.   It's systemic.   States are short on money in large part due to stupid tax breaks they give businesses for moving there.  Northern Indiana (via lobby to the state) did that years ago to attract the RV industry to Elkhart county and eventually had to build their part of the toll road because that was one way to re-coup the money they'd given away, and the RV folks all use that road.   That was smart.  Casinos were smarter, and Indiana's okay.  Not all states have done even that much, and others just have too much other spending (New York has a whole lot of entitlement programs and lots of pork, as an example), so they're not prepared either.  Some states are flat @$$ broke.  Indiana's had decent leadership, so we're not.  And we're generally prepared, not in need of as much federal aid.  New York?   A sh*t show.

The overall point is this pandemic was on nobody's radar, and the states have to blame themselves first.  Probably no one particular administration, but there was nobody in charge of "triage federal stockpile medical equipment to send to states in case of a pandemic that hits us in a blink of an eye."   It's unrealistic to think there would have been.  This was going to be a clusterbomb regardless of who was in the White House or running the NIH.

Oh, and COVID patients were accidentally taken to the ship in NY tocay, which is why they are now being careful about who gets on.   That's a clusterbomb, too.  Cuomo hasn't done well at all, despite his constant complaining about other people.

If something is affecting all 50 states it’s not a states issue it’s a federal one. It’s the whole reason we have a federal government. . 

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Yep.  As recently as the 1980's, there was overlap.  The furthest left republicans overlapped with the furthest right democrats and we could govern in the middle.   That's not true now. 
Not to make this a political narrative, but a large group of people in politics drifted away to a place where political power and agenda trumped (no pun intended) what works in a representative republic dependent on capitalism.   And with no common ground (I believe, for example that there isn't one thing on which Jerry Nadler and Pete Sessions would ever agree.   And that's a problem.  They will always fight each other, and not for the American people, but for their ideology.  Neither ideology is absolutely correct, but I favor one over the other because I'm pro-capitalism/anti-big government, and when I see what's happening right now in the private sector, I am validated in MY opinion.   But that's my opinion.  
The problem is there will always be a gap in income and class; but much of that depends on things like risk, education, and work.  Some does not, and some have benefitted from abuse of the system, greed, etc.  That is true, so absolutely some changes need to be made, but until there are term limits, it won't happen.  I heard a suggestion yesterday for a 1-term, 6 year presidency and 1-term 4 year senate seats to go along with 2 year house seats which could be no longer than 2 terms.   I sort of liked it.  
I need the love button for this post

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8 hours ago, Old Friend said:

The overall point is this pandemic was on nobody's radar, and the states have to blame themselves first.

Singapore and other countries in Asia made no secret that they were taking significant steps in January.  China clearly tried to cover some of this up but scenes of the Wuhan lockdown, hazmat suits, bleach spraying in public places and overwhelmed hospitals were widely shown in the US press in February.  I would argue that our national response should have started 2-4 weeks before it finally kicked in.

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I suggest you do your research about all the other powers that be with regard to "downplaying" the virus.  Pretty much everyone downplayed it.    
Yep. This tweet was from the WHO in mid january



These are headlines across the country in Feb early March 81686caa8938ff837e8f6b9c7c209970.jpg

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1 minute ago, triple said:

Singapore and other countries in Asia made no secret that they were taking significant steps in January.  China clearly tried to cover some of this up but scenes of the Wuhan lockdown, hazmat suits, bleach spraying in public places and overwhelmed hospitals were widely shown in the US press in February.  I would argue that our national response should have started 2-4 weeks before it finally kicked in.

Help me with this, then.

1)  The entire month of January, Trump was a little busy dealing with an impeachment hearing brought by people whose sole purpose was to say "he will always be impeached."   The significance of his being involved in that scam can't be ignored.   He also had to deal with every other responsibility a president has.

2)    Presidents have advisers and experts for a reason.   Public health is no different, and as a matter of fact, probably MOST important.  You've heard the Steve Jobs quote, right?   It's attached if you haven't. 

3)   Trump placed a travel ban from China on January 31st

4)   On February 17th (17 days later)  Dr. Fauci said the threat to the US was "low."

5)   How is it not revisionist history and absolute hindsight to say now "we should have acted sooner?"

6) Trump was called a racist and xenophobe when he DID act; mainly by people who are critical of him NOW for not acting sooner.

So help me.  The man can do no right.  Presidents don't get elected because they know everything.  They get elected because they can bring people together to get things done.  Whatever you think of Trump, he has gotten things done.  Especially in this situation.  But...the left and the media have changed their tune on him.  From "Trump is a racist for banning travel from China" to "Trump is incompetent because he didn't act sooner!"

See the other attachment.  Trump was supposed to act sooner based on what information?

Jobs.jpeg

Coronavirus.jpg

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48 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

If something is affecting all 50 states it’s not a states issue it’s a federal one. It’s the whole reason we have a federal government. . 

Sort of revisionist.   Indiana got it March 6th.  There had been a ban on travel from China in place for 5 weeks by then.  It didn't affect all 50 states at first, and about halfway through that time frame, Dr. Fauci said the risk was low.

If is only now affecting all 50 states, but that doesn't change that Andrew Cuomo (as an example) was told in 2015 he would need 18,000 ventilators in case of an emergency, but only had 2,000.   He blew it off and said to ration what they had.  So is that Barack Obama's fault?  He was president at the time.    States are responsible for themselves.  Indiana is not bankrupt because we've done a good job managing finances.   Other states have not.  The federal government does not exist as a watchdog nor a babysitter.  They are a safety net, but that doesn't mean they are supposed to fill 100% of a state's needs.  They fill the gaps.

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4 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Sort of revisionist.   Indiana got it March 6th.  There had been a ban on travel from China in place for 5 weeks by then.  It didn't affect all 50 states at first, and about halfway through that time frame, Dr. Fauci said the risk was low.

If is only now affecting all 50 states, but that doesn't change that Andrew Cuomo (as an example) was told in 2015 he would need 18,000 ventilators in case of an emergency, but only had 2,000.   He blew it off and said to ration what they had.  So is that Barack Obama's fault?  He was president at the time.    States are responsible for themselves.  Indiana is not bankrupt because we've done a good job managing finances.   Other states have not.  The federal government does not exist as a watchdog nor a babysitter.  They are a safety net, but that doesn't mean they are supposed to fill 100% of a state's needs.  They fill the gaps.

It’s even a federal issue for a month now with little to no federal response.  
 

It’s not being a babysitter, watchdog or safety net at the moment so not sure your point. 
 

And thinking you have to wait for the virus to get to a state before taking charge of the situation is like waiting for the sun to rise to see if it’s going to provide you light. 
 

Bush and Obama had national pandemic plans. They both sure seemed to think this was a federal issue 

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Do they not include employees in the count?  If not, that's a shame.
Employees do not count in that number

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8 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Help me with this, then.

1)  The entire month of January, Trump was a little busy dealing with an impeachment hearing brought by people whose sole purpose was to say "he will always be impeached."   The significance of his being involved in that scam can't be ignored.   He also had to deal with every other responsibility a president has.

2)    Presidents have advisers and experts for a reason.   Public health is no different, and as a matter of fact, probably MOST important.  You've heard the Steve Jobs quote, right?   It's attached if you haven't. 

3)   Trump placed a travel ban from China on January 31st

4)   On February 17th (17 days later)  Dr. Fauci said the threat to the US was "low."

5)   How is it not revisionist history and absolute hindsight to say now "we should have acted sooner?"

6) Trump was called a racist and xenophobe when he DID act; mainly by people who are critical of him NOW for not acting sooner.

So help me.  The man can do no right.  Presidents don't get elected because they know everything.  They get elected because they can bring people together to get things done.  Whatever you think of Trump, he has gotten things done.  Especially in this situation.  But...the left and the media have changed their tune on him.  From "Trump is a racist for banning travel from China" to "Trump is incompetent because he didn't act sooner!"

See the other attachment.  Trump was supposed to act sooner based on what information?

I've bit my tongue and can't do it any longer, especially on your first point.  That "scam" was about a textbook violation of the Impoundment Control Act of 1974, he broke the law when he withheld Congressionally approved funding.

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