Fred Glass Retiring

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

You two quit with the Beilein discussion. I'm trying to rally the troops and passing out pitchforks to storm the ivory towers of the BoT.
Focus people, focus.

I’m onboard. Why the hell would you try to lower the value of one of your biggest assets? Unreal. You can have success AND check and balances in place. It’s not NIT or Mad Man Knight. There’s a nice in between.


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[HoosierAloha 30,068]

You two quit with the Beilein discussion. I'm trying to rally the troops and passing out pitchforks to storm the ivory towers of the BoT.

Focus people, focus.

Deleted

 

 

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[Old Friend 8,389]

On 3/19/2019 at 8:11 AM, johnsoniu said:

Powerful and very influential member of the BoT. Has been for a long time. He's the last member of what I call the Revenge of the Nerds clan that were going to show us simpletons that Indiana University was so much more than Bob Knight and basketball.

Was instrumental in the hiring of Adam Herbert, which directly resulted in the horrible hiring of Sampson. I'm not going to argue him being a great coach and the silliness of his transgressions not even being illegal anymore. I fought that battle a decade ago, and the fallout is still being felt. The administration got what they wanted. 

Then he oversees the hiring of McKangaroo. Nothing like going from a president who's so involved that he insists we hire a coach that is in hot water with the NCAA to one that still thinks we need ladders in the Hall to get the ball out of the peach basket. Luckily, we started getting $$$ from the BTN so we could  dress up our facilities a little. Lipstick on a pig.

IUgradman catches a lot of grief on here, sometimes from me. But he is passionate and not entirely wrong. This administration made a conscious decision 20 years ago that no sport was bigger than the IU name, and Patrick Shoulders has been a big player in that administration for all 20 years. Revenge of the Nerds indeed.

This is pretty much spot on; so I won't insult you by adding anything of substance.     However, to add to Boot's question, not only is all of this true (and there's more to it, especially the part about the administration's conscious decisions; however this is a pretty spot on representation of the problem), is he does it with a smug arrogance I find completely offensive.  He seems to think he's the smartest and most entitled man in every room into which he walks.  Let's just say if you met the guy, it wouldn't take long to understand why he is viewed largely as an unlikable guy; and I love Dakich for hammering him every chance he gets.   You all can hate on Dakich all you want; however as it relates to the insides of IU, he's generally right.

[Old Friend 8,389]

3 hours ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

Seriously? Those 3 seasons were his first 3 and the cupboard was bare.

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I'll give you the first 2.  There was no reason....none...to be worse in year 3 than we were in year 2.   People that say Crean needed the 3 years would say he needed 8 if that were the narrative.   Crean is the guy who made excuses about "the first 3 years," and the blind loyalists drank the Kool Aid.  His BT record was worse year 3 than it was year 2; and he was already making excuses.   Tom Crean needs the best talent to win a game.   It is and was very rare for him to win when his talent wasn't quite matched up and he got out-coached all the time.

[Old Friend 8,389]

9 hours ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

Soooo Quinn Buckner and a bunch of people who have never picked up a basketball?

Why would the board of trustees at any university have multiple people who were basketball players?    Why is that relevant to a BoT?

[Old Friend 8,389]

10 hours ago, mdn82 said:

Revisionist and honestly wrong. He wouldn’t have done that here and he wouldn’t have lasted long enough to implement his system. He has never recruited stars. At IU when you aren’t winning instantly you have to be bringing in stars and Belein has never played the game needed to get the recruits he would/could here. We as fans would have forced a move five years into his tenure. Long before he put up wins he has at Michigan. He just wouldn’t work here. Our fans are not patient enough.


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Disagree.  Knight didn't bring in many "stars" either.  He won with a system.  He won with upper classmen.  He won with defense and offensive efficiency.   He won with kids who understand how to play basketball.   He won with those kids' toughness and leadership.  

Knight's system is Indiana's DNA.   Not instant winning and stars.   He didn't care one bit how many stars were by a kid's name.  Belien, from a basketball perspective, is as close to Knight as there is in college basketball.   What makes you say Indiana wouldn't have been patient enough?   As long as Indiana fans can see what a coach is trying to do and making progress; they'd have been plenty patient.  Especially when we had the opportunity to hire him....which - depending on what you believe - was when we fired Mike Davis.   I think Belein would have absolutely been embraced; especially following Davis and TELLING fans we're going to build this the right way.   I think that's exactly what people wanted to hear at that time, and when we went for "stars," it ruined the culture of this program and has not yet recovered.

[mdn82 25,510]

Disagree.  Knight didn't bring in many "stars" either.  He won with a system.  He won with upper classmen.  He won with defense and offensive efficiency.   He won with kids who understand how to play basketball.   He won with those kids' toughness and leadership.  
Knight's system is Indiana's DNA.   Not instant winning and stars.   He didn't care one bit how many stars were by a kid's name.  Belien, from a basketball perspective, is as close to Knight as there is in college basketball.   What makes you say Indiana wouldn't have been patient enough?   As long as Indiana fans can see what a coach is trying to do and making progress; they'd have been plenty patient.  Especially when we had the opportunity to hire him....which - depending on what you believe - was when we fired Mike Davis.   I think Belein would have absolutely been embraced; especially following Davis and TELLING fans we're going to build this the right way.   I think that's exactly what people wanted to hear at that time, and when we went for "stars," it ruined the culture of this program and has not yet recovered.

You really feel Knight didn’t pull in what would amount to 5* today? Agree to disagree. Even when recruiting rankings were in their infancy we were pulling in 5* left and right with Knight. Just not as much at the end.


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[Old Friend 8,389]

44 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

You really feel Knight didn’t pull in what would amount to 5* today? Agree to disagree. Even when recruiting rankings were in their infancy we were pulling in 5* left and right with Knight. Just not as much at the end.


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He absolutely pulled some in (probably a poor choice of words on my part), but he didn't focus on it, nor did he bring in one or two and allow those kids to have different agendas than everyone else.   Nor was his mentality "win now."   "Stars" weren't his focus.  Kids who could succeed within his system were.

Brian Evans, for example was on nobody's "star" radar in high school and became the Big Ten POY.  Cheaney broke his leg his senior year and was not highly touted in high school, yet became the Big Ten's all time leading scorer.  AJ Guyton was another not highly touted kid.  Pat Graham was a relative unknown until he was a senior but had an IU offer as a junior.  Just examples...Grunwald, Woodson, Abernathy, and any number of successful role players like Eyl, Leary, Meier, Sloan, Radford, etc.

There are a lot of kids who had successful careers under Knight who weren't what we would call "stars" today, but there were also kids who WERE and fit what he wanted.  Does that make sense?   What he (Knight) didn't do was bring in many kids who were 1 or 2 and done.  Regardless of how kids were rated in high school; Knight recruited (especially when HE was the one recruiting). And some of the "stars" he DID bring in failed because they were hyped and not used to his discipline.  Recker, Collier, Funderburke, etc.  

Yes...for sure he brought in highly talented kids; but he didn't prioritize instant success or "win now."   That wasn't his focus and my point was Indiana fans had been conditioned to compete in the Big Ten every year and compete nationally about every 3-5 years unless Knight was able to stack recruiting classes on top of each other.   His best teams had seniors.  His best teams were built over time.   That was - at the time - what Indiana fans were used to and I believe then and now would embrace that as long as they were seeing the build.   

I truly believe Beilein at that time would have been the perfect hire; and again, depending on who you believe, he was on an airplane with a contract in his hand when Herbert vetoed it and insisted Indiana hire a minority to replace Davis.  Oh, and Herbert thought Kelvin Sampson was black.  Which I still think is hysterical.   The velvet fog......

[mdn82 25,510]

He absolutely pulled some in (probably a poor choice of words on my part), but he didn't focus on it, nor did he bring in one or two and allow those kids to have different agendas than everyone else.   Nor was his mentality "win now."   "Stars" weren't his focus.  Kids who could succeed within his system were.
Brian Evans, for example was on nobody's "star" radar in high school and became the Big Ten POY.  Cheaney broke his leg his senior year and was not highly touted in high school, yet became the Big Ten's all time leading scorer.  AJ Guyton was another not highly touted kid.  Pat Graham was a relative unknown until he was a senior but had an IU offer as a junior.  Just examples...Grunwald, Woodson, Abernathy, and any number of successful role players like Eyl, Leary, Meier, Sloan, Radford, etc.
There are a lot of kids who had successful careers under Knight who weren't what we would call "stars" today, but there were also kids who WERE and fit what he wanted.  Does that make sense?   What he (Knight) didn't do was bring in many kids who were 1 or 2 and done.  Regardless of how kids were rated in high school; Knight recruited (especially when HE was the one recruiting). And some of the "stars" he DID bring in failed because they were hyped and not used to his discipline.  Recker, Collier, Funderburke, etc.  
Yes...for sure he brought in highly talented kids; but he didn't prioritize instant success or "win now."   That wasn't his focus and my point was Indiana fans had been conditioned to compete in the Big Ten every year and compete nationally about every 3-5 years unless Knight was able to stack recruiting classes on top of each other.   His best teams had seniors.  His best teams were built over time.   That was - at the time - what Indiana fans were used to and I believe then and now would embrace that as long as they were seeing the build.   
I truly believe Beilein at that time would have been the perfect hire; and again, depending on who you believe, he was on an airplane with a contract in his hand when Herbert vetoed in and insisted Indiana hire a minority to replace Davis.  Oh, and Herbert thought Kelvin Sampson was black.  Which I still think is hysterical.   The velvet fog......

Gotcha I can agree with that.


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[Joe DeLow 1,278]

In this day and age scandals no longer destroy unless they are perfectly timed. 

Scandals that are real at least.


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[southernindianahoosier2 902]

18 hours ago, coonhounds said:

I am one who thinks it is to early to fire fred. I think he goes as archie goes. If archie has to go then fred should as well. Archie could still be a huge success and fred should get credit if that happens.

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Yes, but you don't want to have to hire an AD at the same time you hire a Coach, that's how we ended up with Tom Crean to begin with. They had a blue ribbon committee and chose Crean. Personally, I would have kept Dakich for a year and then hired an AD to then make the decision for the School. Why was a board of people including Gonso making a basketball hire, when none of them knew anything about basketball? That's why you have to give the new AD runway before firing and hiring a new coach. And again Archie may work out. 

 

 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

1 hour ago, Old Friend said:

He absolutely pulled some in (probably a poor choice of words on my part), but he didn't focus on it, nor did he bring in one or two and allow those kids to have different agendas than everyone else.   Nor was his mentality "win now."   "Stars" weren't his focus.  Kids who could succeed within his system were.

Brian Evans, for example was on nobody's "star" radar in high school and became the Big Ten POY.  Cheaney broke his leg his senior year and was not highly touted in high school, yet became the Big Ten's all time leading scorer.  AJ Guyton was another not highly touted kid.  Pat Graham was a relative unknown until he was a senior but had an IU offer as a junior.  Just examples...Grunwald, Woodson, Abernathy, and any number of successful role players like Eyl, Leary, Meier, Sloan, Radford, etc.

There are a lot of kids who had successful careers under Knight who weren't what we would call "stars" today, but there were also kids who WERE and fit what he wanted.  Does that make sense?   What he (Knight) didn't do was bring in many kids who were 1 or 2 and done.  Regardless of how kids were rated in high school; Knight recruited (especially when HE was the one recruiting). And some of the "stars" he DID bring in failed because they were hyped and not used to his discipline.  Recker, Collier, Funderburke, etc.  

Yes...for sure he brought in highly talented kids; but he didn't prioritize instant success or "win now."   That wasn't his focus and my point was Indiana fans had been conditioned to compete in the Big Ten every year and compete nationally about every 3-5 years unless Knight was able to stack recruiting classes on top of each other.   His best teams had seniors.  His best teams were built over time.   That was - at the time - what Indiana fans were used to and I believe then and now would embrace that as long as they were seeing the build.   

I truly believe Beilein at that time would have been the perfect hire; and again, depending on who you believe, he was on an airplane with a contract in his hand when Herbert vetoed it and insisted Indiana hire a minority to replace Davis.  Oh, and Herbert thought Kelvin Sampson was black.  Which I still think is hysterical.   The velvet fog......

I've heard that Izzo, Alford, Pitino, all wanted the job and that Calipari would have "crawled" from Memphis to get the job. I've also heard Brad Stevens had in his contract that he could leave to go to IU if he had the opportunity... Which just begs the question; how the heck did we end up with 9 years of FCTC?

 

 

 

 

[LamarCheeks 18,927]

11 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

I've heard that Izzo, Alford, Pitino, all wanted the job and that Calipari would have "crawled" from Memphis to get the job. I've also heard Brad Stevens had in his contract that he could leave to go to IU if he had the opportunity... Which just begs the question; how the heck did we end up with 9 years of FCTC?

 

 

 

 

Not sure I buy the whole Izzo thing -- I've never even heard that. Why would he want to come down from MSU? He was beating us and out-recruiting us already anyway ... As far as the others: Alford has proven to be no better than Crean, and I want no part of Calipari or Pitino, and I'm guessing after the Sampson debacle, the administration didn't, either. Stevens? By the time he became a proven commodity, we already were entrenched in the Crean years, and his buyout was massive. Plus, IMO, the timing was never right to make a move on Crean. The two years after we crapped our pants against Syracuse weren't good, but in the second year, we made the NCAAs and the year after that we won the B1G and reached the Sweet 16. Yes, things were trending downward with recruiting in the state, but he had the buyout and at least on the surface, seemed to be doing just enough to keep his head above water. 

[Cheaney2002 9]

I can just promise you that as long as the three stooges are calling the shots, Glass, Mcrobbie, and Shoulders, no good changes will ever be made.  Our problems are a lot deeper than Archie.

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

5 minutes ago, Cheaney2002 said:

I can just promise you that as long as the three stooges are calling the shots, Glass, Mcrobbie, and Shoulders, no good changes will ever be made.  Our problems are a lot deeper than Archie.

I would pay top dollar if someone could recreate this design on a shirt, but change the faces to McRObbie, Glass, and Shoulders.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

10 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Why would the board of trustees at any university have multiple people who were basketball players?    Why is that relevant to a BoT?

If you can't understand my context, I don't really have time to explain it.

[finky 298]

18 minutes ago, Cheaney2002 said:

I can just promise you that as long as the three stooges are calling the shots, Glass, Mcrobbie, and Shoulders, no good changes will ever be made.  Our problems are a lot deeper than Archie.

WHo is Shoulders?

[Joe DeLow 1,278]

Not sure I buy the whole Izzo thing -- I've never even heard that. Why would he want to come down from MSU? He was beating us and out-recruiting us already anyway ... As far as the others: Alford has proven to be no better than Crean, and I want no part of Calipari or Pitino, and I'm guessing after the Sampson debacle, the administration didn't, either. Stevens? By the time he became a proven commodity, we already were entrenched in the Crean years, and his buyout was massive. Plus, IMO, the timing was never right to make a move on Crean. The two years after we crapped our pants against Syracuse weren't good, but in the second year, we made the NCAAs and the year after that we won the B1G and reached the Sweet 16. Yes, things were trending downward with recruiting in the state, but he had the buyout and at least on the surface, seemed to be doing just enough to keep his head above water. 

We could have fired Crean after year 3, hired Stevens and still gotten Zeller.


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[JSHoosier 20,215]

12 minutes ago, finky said:

WHo is Shoulders?

Pat Shoulders, been on the board for quite a while.

[JSHoosier 20,215]

26 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

I would pay top dollar if someone could recreate this design on a shirt, but change the faces to McRObbie, Glass, and Shoulders.

This needs to happen.