IU vs IOWA 02/07/19 GAME THREAD!

[HoosierAloha]

I do think 2013 was more talented as well. Vonleh, Sheehey, Troy, Yogi. On paper, it checked a lot of the boxes. 
If I recall, this team was right around 25 or so to start the year. That would put us at a 6-7 seed which seemed appropriate at the time. I think we all thought Romeo would take over games, which hasn't really been the case. He's clearly not the main problem as our bench is non-existent due to other guys not developing at all and injuries. And PG has basically been a black hole except for a few games Phinny elevated his play before the concussion. Even if we somehow made the tourney, I feel like Juwan would have to have 30+ and Romeo 20+ for us to win a game. 

That team had 2 legit pros in Yogi and Vonleh. Troy and Sheehey were talented too. Romeo is a legit pro and Morgan will play for awhile overseas.

The biggest issue both had was leadership. Neither Sheehey nor Morgan are real senior leaders. In a consistent, good program they oils be the quiet second or third upperclassman. We have sophomores with more giveadamn than our upperclassmen.

I’m not putting down any of our players. They’re good young men but they’re sheep. They go with the flow. They’re more concerned about making friends than making their teammates better. That’s sacrilegious in the Indiana basketball I grew up watching.


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[TXHoosierDaddy]

6 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

I understand from a wins and losses point of view.   Indiana has been far better the last 2 games than the were prior.  I'm not sure if I have confidence or a feeling; but I didn't mind the effort last night.   I hate that we don't have shooters and I hate that we have only 2 reliable guards.   

I didn't think we played great at MSU at all.  Sure it helped that they missed FT's.  We've lost games because of that, also.  (Arkansas as an example)   Wins are wins and there are many reasons teams win and lose.  I see enough progress and effort to believe something got through to at least a few of the kids to also believe Indiana can win a few down the stretch.  

I agree there has been improvement from what we saw in January but the bottom line is we still can't take care of business at home and looking at the remaining schedule that gives me doubt that we can win any of the remaining games on the road. Is it possible, absolutely . We did it at Mich St but we shot 10-20 from 3 pt range, which we have an incredibly hard time doing. It takes guys like Green to be on and when they are not we just have no fallback options. We'll certainly need to be close to that again to have a chance going away.

Ohio St. on Sunday is huge. Lose that and I have a hard time believing we can go to Minny with any confidence to win. 

[TXHoosierDaddy]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

That team had 2 legit pros in Yogi and Vonleh. Troy and Sheehey were talented too. Romeo is a legit pro and Morgan will play for awhile overseas.

The biggest issue both had was leadership. Neither Sheehey nor Morgan are real senior leaders. In a consistent, good program they oils be the quiet second or third upperclassman. We have sophomores with more giveadamn than our upperclassmen.

I’m not putting down any of our players. They’re good young men but they’re sheep. They go with the flow. They’re more concerned about making friends than making their teammates better. That’s sacrilegious in the Indiana basketball I grew up watching.


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For whatever reason, Crean always had a hard time recruiting this type of player. The only examples where it seemed like we had real leadership were 2012-2013 with VO/Hulls/Watford and 2015-2016 with Biedfeldt/Zeisloft. I'd also throw in Hartman, Yogi and Rojo over the last two years but the point is this is a short list and needs to change asap 

[Uspshoosier]

That team had 2 legit pros in Yogi and Vonleh. Troy and Sheehey were talented too. Romeo is a legit pro and Morgan will play for awhile overseas.

The biggest issue both had was leadership. Neither Sheehey nor Morgan are real senior leaders. In a consistent, good program they oils be the quiet second or third upperclassman. We have sophomores with more giveadamn than our upperclassmen.

I’m not putting down any of our players. They’re good young men but they’re sheep. They go with the flow. They’re more concerned about making friends than making their teammates better. That’s sacrilegious in the Indiana basketball I grew up watching.


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Both teams had a grad transfer with the first name Evan......next grad transfer better not be an Evan


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[Old Friend]

1 minute ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

I agree there has been improvement from what we saw in January but the bottom line is we still can't take care of business at home and looking at the remaining schedule that gives me doubt that we can win any of the remaining games on the road. Is it possible, absolutely . We did it at Mich St but we shot 10-20 from 3 pt range, which we have an incredibly hard time doing. It takes guys like Green to be on and when they are not we just have no fallback options. We'll certainly need to be close to that again to have a chance going away.

Ohio St. on Sunday is huge. Lose that and I have a hard time believing we can go to Minny with any confidence to win. 

I guess my overall point is I didn't expect the MSU game to "start a new streak."  I thought after that one, we'd likely lose to Iowa for myriad reasons then go on something of a run.  So yeah....Sunday's huge.  

I completely disagree with you on Green.  We don't need him to be "on."  We need him to be in bed with the flu.  (Kidding..sort of)    We need him to quit being careless and selfish on a consistent basis and just let the game come to him.  We need him to stop being deliberate one minute and flashy the next.  We need him to take good shots within the flow of the offense.   We need him to move the ball quickly.   

He is not that player most of the time.  He is more frequently the player he was last night; and I wonder again why he has so many defenders saying we need him.  His mistakes (poor shots and turnovers) led directly to Iowa points on 4 occasions last night and we lost by 5.  I realize we don't have many other options, but Green thinking he needs to be "on" hurts him because he thinks he has to make plays.  When he tries to do that, he hurts the team more than he helps it almost every time.

[Old Friend]

12 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

That team had 2 legit pros in Yogi and Vonleh. Troy and Sheehey were talented too. Romeo is a legit pro and Morgan will play for awhile overseas.

The biggest issue both had was leadership. Neither Sheehey nor Morgan are real senior leaders. In a consistent, good program they oils be the quiet second or third upperclassman. We have sophomores with more giveadamn than our upperclassmen.

I’m not putting down any of our players. They’re good young men but they’re sheep. They go with the flow. They’re more concerned about making friends than making their teammates better. That’s sacrilegious in the Indiana basketball I grew up watching.


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Vonleh couldn't have cared less.  He was in college because he had to be.  Lot like Romeo if you ask me.  His talent was completely irrelevant because he was doing nothing but playing out the time he had to play.  I'm no fan of even acknowledging he played at Indiana. h He certainly couldn't care less.

[HoosierAloha]

We lost that game because we clocked out for a stretch in the first half. We had players laying on the ground waiting for the staff to bring out their blankey for nap time. We had defenders closing out with their hands in their pockets, on a good shooting team! We committed dumb lazy fouls. We tossed the ball around like we were on the playground.

We played a decent second half but the damage had been done. If we defend better in the first half we have a chance to win this game. Instead, we had players just going through the motions unless they were cutting to dunk the ball.

We are not smart on either side of the court (making terrible passes and losing shooters). We give effort for short stretches (typically when we play well on offense or Archie gets into them). This isn’t winning basketball and the tournament isn’t even in question with performances like this in most every conference game.

Players who show a bit of pride and want to while in the game:
Durham, Forrester, Phin, Davis

Players who are just out there:
Everyone else

That’s sad


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[HoosierDYT]

I actually thought we played pretty well. I thought Romeo showed more passion than people give him credit for, Al is nothing but great, Deron Davis is a huge asset for our team, and Archie coached a good game.

They just hit some crazy 3’s and played well.


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[Hillsdale87]

4 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

We were in our seats 75 minutes before tip: JamieHoo is firmly convinced that the two best, most consistently repeatable shooting strokes in the team are 2) Al, and #1) Rob Phinssee.

Fitzner isn’t just a game confidence thing; goofing around during warmups DeRon Davis was hitting threes at a better clip than Fitzner.

 

I completely agree about Al and Rob. Al has come a long way in his shooting, even just over the course of this year. The next step is to be able to pull up better off the dribble and coming off screens. He's really good when set but adding that other dimension will elevate him. Considering how quickly he's progressed I think he'll do it..

Rob's shot is really fluid, and he just needs to spend hours in the gym shooting 3s. He's got great form and I think it's just a reps thing for him. We've seen him hit 3s coming off screens and he's able to pull up off the dribble, and he'll only get better at it. He's never going to be an elite athlete, but he can be a great college PG if he's a real outside threat. I could see him having a Joel Berry/Frank Mason type progression where he keeps getting better and is a star by his senior year, even though he probably doesn't have the traits to be an NBA player

[KingPG21]

4 minutes ago, HoosierDYT said:

I actually thought we played pretty well. I thought Romeo showed more passion than people give him credit for, Al is nothing but great, Deron Davis is a huge asset for our team, and Archie coached a good game.

They just hit some crazy 3’s and played well.


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Its almost like they're a good team. Maybe that number next to their name means something

[TXHoosierDaddy]

14 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Vonleh couldn't have cared less.  He was in college because he had to be.  Lot like Romeo if you ask me.  His talent was completely irrelevant because he was doing nothing but playing out the time he had to play.  I'm no fan of even acknowledging he played at Indiana. h He certainly couldn't care less.

That was partially Crean's fault. He didn't know how to use Noah. In fact, his offense wasn't predicated at all towards an around the basket big, which Noah was. I would have been frustrated as heck to if I was a second thought on offense and never got the ball in the right spots despite being the most talented player on the court. Noah finally kind of quit towards the end which was unfortunate. 

[KingPG21]

2 hours ago, Bailey7878 said:

I waa delusional enough to get really excited after the MS win. It was clearly a one off and any ncaa dream ended last night.

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Because they lost to a tea,m in the top 20 who hit some really difficult shots late to salt the game away? Not to mention we played considerably better in the second half, 46 points given up in the first, 31 in the second. But wokay, probs gonna lose out

[TXHoosierDaddy]

24 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

I guess my overall point is I didn't expect the MSU game to "start a new streak."  I thought after that one, we'd likely lose to Iowa for myriad reasons then go on something of a run.  So yeah....Sunday's huge.  

I completely disagree with you on Green.  We don't need him to be "on."  We need him to be in bed with the flu.  (Kidding..sort of)    We need him to quit being careless and selfish on a consistent basis and just let the game come to him.  We need him to stop being deliberate one minute and flashy the next.  We need him to take good shots within the flow of the offense.   We need him to move the ball quickly.   

He is not that player most of the time.  He is more frequently the player he was last night; and I wonder again why he has so many defenders saying we need him.  His mistakes (poor shots and turnovers) led directly to Iowa points on 4 occasions last night and we lost by 5.  I realize we don't have many other options, but Green thinking he needs to be "on" hurts him because he thinks he has to make plays.  When he tries to do that, he hurts the team more than he helps it almost every time.

Man I thought the opposite. Winning at Mich St to me was exactly the momentum this team needed for a new start especially doing it without JMo for the most part. And we got to come home to AH and play a good but not great Iowa team. Props to them for showing up. 

Maybe my words weren't right with Green. I don't want him to have the ball a lot or for us to actually rely on him. However, off the bench he is the only guy capable of hitting a few triples. For a team devoid of scoring, it's a big plus if we can get a few baskets from him. When he sunk a few at MSU I felt like it energized the other guys and they kind of played off of each other. The only guy I trust off the bench is Davis but that's not going to be enough most nights. We need another guy to step up or two. 

[Bailey7878]

MSU has been the outlier though since December. The rest of the games are filled with so much  inconsistency. We played great at MSU but it also helped that they were what, 8-22 from the FT line? It's hard to have any confidence that this team can string together wins, which typically coincides with some sort of consistent play. 
 
The only consistency is Morgan typically picking up 4 fouls, this team starting slow (except MSU), and expecting to get very little output from the bench. 

Yeah they helped us out big time missing free throws. Right now I am not even sure we can win Sunday. I still probably only see 2 more wins at this point

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[Bailey7878]

Because they lost to a tea,m in the top 20 who hit some really difficult shots late to salt the game away? Not to mention we played considerably better in the second half, 46 points given up in the first, 31 in the second. But wokay, probs gonna lose out

A lose is a lose. Im not into moral victories.

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[KingPG21]

1 minute ago, Bailey7878 said:

A lose is a lose. Im not into moral victories.

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Yeah I know. You don't post anything but negativity non-stop. 

[Bailey7878]

Yeah I know. You don't post anything but negativity non-stop. 

Really. Go look at my comments after MS. When we play good I acknowledge it. When we stink I say so.

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[KingPG21]

9 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

Really. Go look at my comments after MS. When we play good I acknowledge it. When we stink I say so.

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24 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

A lose is a lose. Im not into moral victories.

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No you don't. They played better in the second half. But one second it is a lose is a lose, the next you claim to give them credit

[DChoosier]

31 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

That was partially Crean's fault. He didn't know how to use Noah. In fact, his offense wasn't predicated at all towards an around the basket big, which Noah was. I would have been frustrated as heck to if I was a second thought on offense and never got the ball in the right spots despite being the most talented player on the court. Noah finally kind of quit towards the end which was unfortunate. 

Noah was also very young and did not have a good feel as to how to post up.  I remember games in which Dicky V would keep yelling “get him the ball” but Noah was standing sideways,  did not seal the defender and did not “present” himself with good angles. His age is one of the reasons that it took him a while to develop in the NBA. Not implying Crean was blameless but Noah had a ways to go.

[Bailey7878]

No you don't. They played better in the second half. But one second it is a lose is a lose, the next you claim to give them credit

I gave them creditg for MS. I did not givw any credit for last night. At the end of the day they lost their yhird straight home game. Nothing about that is good

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