Devonte Green Suspension

[TXHoosierDaddy]

There shouldn't be a debate here whether Green is needed. We need guys that can SCORE THE BALL. Devonte is one of the few guys on the team capable of doing this. It's a very short list. We absolutely need him if it means less minutes for guys like McBob, which it does. 

[RaceToTheTop]

24 minutes ago, Rico said:

Well, he is a better difference maker than McBob.

 

24 minutes ago, Rico said:

Well, he is a better difference maker than McBob.

Green is our best on ball defender.  So if he doesn't play well at the offensive end, he still has one good end of the court.  I can think of s couple of guys in the rotation right now that I couldn't say that about.

[Str8Hoosiers]

2 hours ago, Old Friend said:

We weren't worse at Northwestern without him.   We were against Michigan, but I would struggle saying it had anything to do with his being gone.    Yeah..he "tries to be the shooter we need," but he can't shoot.   We don't need kids trying to do what they can't do just to do it.  He's a 39% career shooter.  That's not good (and I rounded up).  His career A:TO ratio is barely 1:1.   He's just not a good player.  And I don't like his IQ or decision making.  I'd rather see Phinsee and Durham develop as a back court...and no, I don't want to see McRoberts either.   What I WOULD like to see is the recruitment of guards who can shoot and who have high basketball IQ.

We weren't worse at Northwestern without him how? What makes you say we weren't worse? We beat Northwestern with him (albeit at home) and we lost without him.... I am sure that is too much of a generalization but going back and looking at stats we sure could have used him in that game.... Haven't re-watched to see specific examples..

"We don't need kids trying to do what they can't do"? So should we never attempt another 3 point shot this season? What would be an acceptable percentage to be allowed to shoot? Green is shooting 36% this season (so if water finds its level it could go up if he keeps shooting)... nobody is above 40% on this team for this season.

This season A:TO is 1.5:1 which is 3rd on the team (McRoberts is 2nd)....

I completely understand you do not like him as a player.. I get he frustrates you... I get your "eye test" is something he fails miserably... however to say that he is not helpful to this current team doesn't make any sense to me.... everything that everybody is saying we need is what he COULD bring... not that he will but it is in his ability unlike the others mentioned for playing time.

**** "You" in this last paragraph is a generic You to a lot of people.... not specifically saying You = Old Friend.... 

[JSHoosier]

The team was sucking out loud with Green playing, adding a mediocre to bad player with a sub-zero basketball IQ isn't going to right the ship.

[Hillsdale87]

9 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

You don't watch the same games I watch and if you're using an automatic "if/then," there's no having a conversation with you.  If you're asking would I rather have Green or McRoberts, the answer is Green, but that's you creating the point so you can argue against it.   "He's not burning any possessions" was comical.  Go IU

I can't understand your argument. If Green is not playing, somebody else will. With our current roster, that somebody is going to be McRoberts. If Green plays more, McRoberts likely plays less. That's why I set up the comparison.

I'm not even arguing that Green is awesome, because he's usually not. But Green is at worst our 7th best player, so having him back would be helpful. Earlier comments on the thread show that some on here believe it will be bad for the team. Green would not be an upgrade for a top level team, but he is for IU.

The other reason we need Green is just that we don't have many guards. I basically think Green, Al, and Rob will provide equivalent value over the course of the season, but their value in any particular game can vary significantly. If one of the guys is off, the other 2 can step in. Rob has not been great the last 2 games, which isn't surprising from a freshman guard, but we haven't had anybody to spot him. At the least Green provides depth and options for a team desperately needing both.

[Hillsdale87]

11 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The team was sucking out loud with Green playing, adding a mediocre to bad player with a sub-zero basketball IQ isn't going to right the ship.

If you're replacing a bad basketball player with a mediocre one, then it's an upgrade. Yes it's not an upgrade that's going to vault us to the conference championship, but keeping negative guys off the floor is a positive. That's the issue right now. McRoberts tries hard, but his presence on the floor hurts the team. We saw the same thing in the Maryland game when we had to play Fitzner while Smith was in foul trouble. Smith is not great, but the guy coming in after him is so much worse that it was demoralizing.

[Rico]

25 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The team was sucking out loud with Green playing, adding a mediocre to bad player with a sub-zero basketball IQ isn't going to right the ship.

Okay.  If you had to pick one.  Picking the one that is the best player.  Who do you take?  Green?  McRoberts?  Or Fitzner?

[JSHoosier]

8 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

If you're replacing a bad basketball player with a mediocre one, then it's an upgrade. Yes it's not an upgrade that's going to vault us to the conference championship, but keeping negative guys off the floor is a positive. That's the issue right now. McRoberts tries hard, but his presence on the floor hurts the team. We saw the same thing in the Maryland game when we had to play Fitzner while Smith was in foul trouble. Smith is not great, but the guy coming in after him is so much worse that it was demoralizing.

I said "mediocre to bad".  Green has more than his share of times when he's completely horrendous.  

[JSHoosier]

Just now, Rico said:

Okay.  If you had to pick one.  Picking the one that is the best player.  Who do you take?  Green?  McRoberts?  Or Fitzner?

That's a bit of a loaded question.  Anyone would say Green, but him being suspended is not the reason this team is awful right now.  McRoberts is a walk-on energy guy and Fitzner isn't B1G caliber, but Green isn't good and we beat Marquette without him.

[Hillsdale87]

8 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I said "mediocre to bad".  Green has more than his share of times when he's completely horrendous.  

Sure, but so does everybody except Morgan. Everybody on this team except Morgan and Langford is mediocre to bad. Nobody else is good enough to start on Michigan, MSU, or Purdue. I'm not down on the future of the freshmen and sophomores, but they're not ready to make meaningful contributions right now. 

Nobody who's defending Green thinks he's awesome. We watch the games too and realize he has plenty of flaws. I wish we could say that we don't need Green because there are tons of better players, but there aren't. Without Green and Davis we have 2 good players and 3 decent ones. Anybody else that plays is bad. We can't play 5 guys for 40 minutes, so adding a decent player will help

[Old Friend]

44 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

We weren't worse at Northwestern without him how? What makes you say we weren't worse? We beat Northwestern with him (albeit at home) and we lost without him.... I am sure that is too much of a generalization but going back and looking at stats we sure could have used him in that game.... Haven't re-watched to see specific examples..

"We don't need kids trying to do what they can't do"? So should we never attempt another 3 point shot this season? What would be an acceptable percentage to be allowed to shoot? Green is shooting 36% this season (so if water finds its level it could go up if he keeps shooting)... nobody is above 40% on this team for this season.

This season A:TO is 1.5:1 which is 3rd on the team (McRoberts is 2nd)....

I completely understand you do not like him as a player.. I get he frustrates you... I get your "eye test" is something he fails miserably... however to say that he is not helpful to this current team doesn't make any sense to me.... everything that everybody is saying we need is what he COULD bring... not that he will but it is in his ability unlike the others mentioned for playing time.

**** "You" in this last paragraph is a generic You to a lot of people.... not specifically saying You = Old Friend.... 

Why?  because we've lost 6 in a row and he played in many of them.  We were bad before he went out.  That's how.  

You can't compare how we were playing when we beat NW the first time to how we've played the last 2-3 weeks...can you?  Seriously?

Indiana lost....something when Phinisee went down.  Their struggles lately have had zero to do with Green for better or worse.  He has not helped, and the team is not hurt by his absence.  He is a warm body, nothing more or less right now.  I was at the Jacksonville game, and we even trailed early against THAT mess.  My eye test has watched an awful lot of basketball over the years.  I trust it without equivocation.   And I understand people have some idea of what he "could" bring, but what of the almost 3 years of evidence we have that says what he IS?   It's like you (same "you" as you indicate) create this fabricated player that has never existed.   Yes...he's better than McRoberts.  I suspect you would be too.  

You either see his ill timed and forced shots or you don't.  You either see him leave his feet with no choice but to throw the ball at the rim or you don't.  But please don't insult my intelligence or that of others by creating a player that Green just isn't.   And don't use words like "never."  It's pointless.  As is the "water finds its level" statement.  You really think Green should be a volume 3 point shooter?   Just keep shooting and they'll eventually go in?  Are you talking about the organic shots within the offense or the ones he forces?  That's the difference, and like I said, you understand that or you don't.  

I don't care at all what he COULD bring.  He hasn't.  For 3 years.  There was former publication called "Inside Indiana."  Every year, they used phrases like "just might," or "if ________, then we COULD _________."   If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.  

[Rico]

17 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

That's a bit of a loaded question.  Anyone would say Green, but him being suspended is not the reason this team is awful right now.  McRoberts is a walk-on energy guy and Fitzner isn't B1G caliber, but Green isn't good and we beat Marquette without him.

From where I sit...McRoberts is a major liability.  And Fitzner is not cut out for this level of competition.  Marquette was an eon ago.  Green can play in this league.

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Why?  because we've lost 6 in a row and he played in many of them.  We were bad before he went out.  That's how.  

You can't compare how we were playing when we beat NW the first time to how we've played the last 2-3 weeks...can you?  Seriously?

Indiana lost....something when Phinisee went down.  Their struggles lately have had zero to do with Green for better or worse.  He has not helped, and the team is not hurt by his absence.  He is a warm body, nothing more or less right now.  I was at the Jacksonville game, and we even trailed early against THAT mess.  My eye test has watched an awful lot of basketball over the years.  I trust it without equivocation.   And I understand people have some idea of what he "could" bring, but what of the almost 3 years of evidence we have that says what he IS?   It's like you (same "you" as you indicate) create this fabricated player that has never existed.   Yes...he's better than McRoberts.  I suspect you would be too.  

You either see his ill timed and forced shots or you don't.  You either see him leave his feet with no choice but to throw the ball at the rim or you don't.  But please don't insult my intelligence or that of others by creating a player that Green just isn't.   And don't use words like "never."  It's pointless.  As is the "water finds its level" statement.  You really think Green should be a volume 3 point shooter?   Just keep shooting and they'll eventually go in?  Are you talking about the organic shots within the offense or the ones he forces?  That's the difference, and like I said, you understand that or you don't.  

I don't care at all what he COULD bring.  He hasn't.  For 3 years.  There was former publication called "Inside Indiana."  Every year, they used phrases like "just might," or "if ________, then we COULD _________."   If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.  

I will remember that 3 year thing.

[Old Friend]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

I will remember that 3 year thing.

Not sure exactly what you're saying, but Green has been here for almost 3 full seasons.  Anyone hoping he "could be" something he's not should have enough evidence to know he is what he is.

[Old Friend]

1 hour ago, Free Jurkin! said:

I can't understand your argument. If Green is not playing, somebody else will. With our current roster, that somebody is going to be McRoberts. If Green plays more, McRoberts likely plays less. That's why I set up the comparison.

I'm not even arguing that Green is awesome, because he's usually not. But Green is at worst our 7th best player, so having him back would be helpful. Earlier comments on the thread show that some on here believe it will be bad for the team. Green would not be an upgrade for a top level team, but he is for IU.

The other reason we need Green is just that we don't have many guards. I basically think Green, Al, and Rob will provide equivalent value over the course of the season, but their value in any particular game can vary significantly. If one of the guys is off, the other 2 can step in. Rob has not been great the last 2 games, which isn't surprising from a freshman guard, but we haven't had anybody to spot him. At the least Green provides depth and options for a team desperately needing both.

You said the other person playing would automatically be McRoberts and made it a debate between the two.  It's not, necessarily.  If it were, I agree with you.  I don't happen to believe we either play Green or McRoberts

[LamarCheeks]

Maybe he travels to East Lansing??? 
 

 

[Hillsdale87]

Well after arguing about Zach McRoberts all day, he’s apparently not going to play tonight... [emoji102]

As much as I think he's a liability, he's possibly less of a liability than the guys behind him. This team is a special combination of bad and incredibly unlucky


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Str8Hoosiers]

17 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Why?  because we've lost 6 in a row and he played in many of them.  We were bad before he went out.  That's how.  

You can't compare how we were playing when we beat NW the first time to how we've played the last 2-3 weeks...can you?  Seriously?

Indiana lost....something when Phinisee went down.  Their struggles lately have had zero to do with Green for better or worse.  He has not helped, and the team is not hurt by his absence.  He is a warm body, nothing more or less right now.  I was at the Jacksonville game, and we even trailed early against THAT mess.  My eye test has watched an awful lot of basketball over the years.  I trust it without equivocation.   And I understand people have some idea of what he "could" bring, but what of the almost 3 years of evidence we have that says what he IS?   It's like you (same "you" as you indicate) create this fabricated player that has never existed.   Yes...he's better than McRoberts.  I suspect you would be too.  

You either see his ill timed and forced shots or you don't.  You either see him leave his feet with no choice but to throw the ball at the rim or you don't.  But please don't insult my intelligence or that of others by creating a player that Green just isn't.   And don't use words like "never."  It's pointless.  As is the "water finds its level" statement.  You really think Green should be a volume 3 point shooter?   Just keep shooting and they'll eventually go in?  Are you talking about the organic shots within the offense or the ones he forces?  That's the difference, and like I said, you understand that or you don't.  

I don't care at all what he COULD bring.  He hasn't.  For 3 years.  There was former publication called "Inside Indiana."  Every year, they used phrases like "just might," or "if ________, then we COULD _________."   If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.  

You are the one that said we weren't worse without him at Northwestern... I agree we have been bad and he has played in half of the games in this losing streak...

Yes I can compare the first NW game because we didn't look good then either and barely escaped with a victory... you think we are playing so much worse now than we were then? I think we are playing the same BAD basketball we were playing then... the opponents just have more tape and the blueprint on how to shut us down. Nothing dramatically changed between the 1st NW game and the 2nd... except no Green in the 2nd. (also home vs away).

So Green not being there makes no difference but this is all related to Phinisee going down... you do realize we were 2 of 3 (3-4 if you count the first game when he went down after playing 7 minutes) without him right? And we weren't winning @ Michigan regardless... I completely disagree that the teams struggles are not effected by a veteran player getting lots of minutes is all of a sudden no longer available. If you don't see what he brings to the court then maybe you need to take off the hate filled blinders.

I see ill timed and forced shots... not just from Green but from EVERY player on this team (well except McRoberts & Fitzner because they basically refuse to shoot when when open). You said  "We don't need kids trying to do what they can't do just to do it." that pretty much sounds like "never" as well. Yes I think Green should take more open shots and more volume of our 3 point attempts as I have seen he has one of the better strokes on this team. I would rather Green force a shot over Justin trying to create and turning it over, or McRoberts or Fitzner avoiding a shot and getting a Shot Clock Violation... i would rather Green force a 3 vs Rob or Romeo trying to drive the lane and having no where to go yet they try to force it up in the middle of the bigs....

We need Green!!! And I for 1 am very hopeful that he makes the trip to East Lansing and helps my Hoosiers break the streak!

[Old Friend]

1 hour ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

You are the one that said we weren't worse without him at Northwestern... I agree we have been bad and he has played in half of the games in this losing streak...

Yes I can compare the first NW game because we didn't look good then either and barely escaped with a victory... you think we are playing so much worse now than we were then? I think we are playing the same BAD basketball we were playing then... the opponents just have more tape and the blueprint on how to shut us down. Nothing dramatically changed between the 1st NW game and the 2nd... except no Green in the 2nd. (also home vs away).

So Green not being there makes no difference but this is all related to Phinisee going down... you do realize we were 2 of 3 (3-4 if you count the first game when he went down after playing 7 minutes) without him right? And we weren't winning @ Michigan regardless... I completely disagree that the teams struggles are not effected by a veteran player getting lots of minutes is all of a sudden no longer available. If you don't see what he brings to the court then maybe you need to take off the hate filled blinders.

I see ill timed and forced shots... not just from Green but from EVERY player on this team (well except McRoberts & Fitzner because they basically refuse to shoot when when open). You said  "We don't need kids trying to do what they can't do just to do it." that pretty much sounds like "never" as well. Yes I think Green should take more open shots and more volume of our 3 point attempts as I have seen he has one of the better strokes on this team. I would rather Green force a shot over Justin trying to create and turning it over, or McRoberts or Fitzner avoiding a shot and getting a Shot Clock Violation... i would rather Green force a 3 vs Rob or Romeo trying to drive the lane and having no where to go yet they try to force it up in the middle of the bigs....

We need Green!!! And I for 1 am very hopeful that he makes the trip to East Lansing and helps my Hoosiers break the streak!

The only even decent game we won without RP was against Illinois.   We also beat Jacksonville.  Give me a break.

We weren't worse at Northwestern.  At all.  We are equally bad right now with or without Green.  He helps nothing except as a warm body.  I have no idea what you've been watching to think otherwise.  Your arrogant condescension aside (yes, I do realize we beat Jacksonville and basically Central Arkansas without RP and with Green.  How many people other than you....on the entire planet are impressed by that?   Give me a damned break).

You and I watch very different basketball games and if you'd rather Green make a bad play / force a shot, there's nothing I'm going to say that;s going to change your mind.   We lost to Maryland and Nebraska with Green.   To use your words...you do realize that, right?  Good grief.

[Str8Hoosiers]

8 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

The only even decent game we won without RP was against Illinois.   We also beat Jacksonville.  Give me a break.

We weren't worse at Northwestern.  At all.  We are equally bad right now with or without Green.  He helps nothing except as a warm body.  I have no idea what you've been watching to think otherwise.  Your arrogant condescension aside (yes, I do realize we beat Jacksonville and basically Central Arkansas without RP and with Green.  How many people other than you....on the entire planet are impressed by that?   Give me a damned break).

You and I watch very different basketball games and if you'd rather Green make a bad play / force a shot, there's nothing I'm going to say that;s going to change your mind.   We lost to Maryland and Nebraska with Green.   To use your words...you do realize that, right?  Good grief.

I understand we beat nobodies without Phinisee, you said everything changed when he went down, but he has been available for all of this losing streak.... he is not the difference maker.... (neither is Green obviously as he has been there for a good part of losing too)

I don't understand this line of thinking.... we are equally bad with or without him? He either helps the team or he hurts them... as do all players, to say we are equal without him doesn't compute. Your opinion is that he hurts the team, mine is that he helps the team. You think he is just a warm body, I think he has a lot of skills that most on this team lack and those are skills that we desperately need.