IUBB @ Michigan - 1/6/19 @ 4:30 ET

[Bigred3588]

Are you guys really arguing about whether we have shooters? The only players on the team who take a shot and I actually expect it to go in is Juwan or Romeo when they have a layup lol. 

[Brass Cannon]

Just now, Old Friend said:

OH!!!!    You have "sources!!!!!"   Well then...you win.  All I have are his numbers and a comment that expectations shouldn't have been that high of a guy who averaged 5 points per game in a bad conference.  What point are you making?  That expectations should have been high and he's failing?  Or....again, are you just arguing for the sake of it?  Good grief.  

 Well A that was talking about Jerome. Keep trying to reframe that argument. You will be lucky and be right once. And B it was a bad conference but a very solid team. Didn't Nick Z play in the Mac and put up worse numbers. 

 

[Old Friend]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

I've never seen a grown man keep being wrong about things he can google so consistently. Gets funny

I was one point off because I saw this link and missed "so far."  As I said, mea culpa.  https://smcgaels.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=43

What else have I been wrong about (and stick to facts rather than your opinion)

If you tell me you just know the things you post without looking them up, you're a liar.   But whatever.  I do think it's funny that you criticized me for "putting words in the mouths of others" and then make the genius comment above.  Oh the irony.  

[DChoosier]

We need a pure shooter, pure and simple.  Someone that could open up the offense for slashers like Romeo and Smith and also open up the front court for Morgan. 

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Bigred3588 said:

Are you guys really arguing about whether we have shooters? The only players on the team who take a shot and I actually expect it to go in is Juwan or Romeo when they have a layup lol. 

Not arguing we have them now. But we have people who will be able to fill the role in the future. 

[Uspshoosier]

Truth hurts.  Our offense is bad early in games.  There's no other way to say that.  Our offense is generally kinda' stagnant for stretches in most games, and Archie isn't recruiting shooters.   That baffles me because that's his missing piece.
The rest is just funny.  

He is recruiting and offering shooters they have just chosen to play for a different college. Archie recruited and offered the best shooter on the circuit in 2018 Cole Swider. Cole decided to go to Nova. In 2019 he recruited and offered Bouknight and Newman. They went elsewhere. Now if you want to argue he should of taken Newman over Franklin for the reason of Newman being an elite shooter then thats an interesting discussion to have.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Brass Cannon]

Just now, DChoosier said:

We need a pure shooter, pure and simple.  Someone that could open up the offense for slashers like Romeo and Smith and also open up the front court for Morgan. 

Agreed completely. 

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

I was one point off because I saw this link and missed "so far."  As I said, mea culpa.  https://smcgaels.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=43

What else have I been wrong about (and stick to facts rather than your opinion)

If you tell me you just know the things you post without looking them up, you're a liar.   But whatever.  I do think it's funny that you criticized me for "putting words in the mouths of others" and then make the genius comment above.  Oh the irony.  

You said Hunter wasn't a shooter. You also said that a PG can't be the answer for shooting.  Which is so wrong it's laughable in today's basketball 

[Old Friend]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

 Well A that was talking about Jerome. Keep trying to reframe that argument. You will be lucky and be right once. And B it was a bad conference but a very solid team. Didn't Nick Z play in the Mac and put up worse numbers. 

 

Reframe what argument?  Context....   you really should try to embrace that concept, because if you can't, you'll never have a serious debate or even conversation because you can spin it to mean what you want it to mean by changing the context and words (shooter to scorer, for example).  Hunter was not brought here as a shooter.  Not at all in the context of the original conversation.  Doesn't mean he can't make that shot.  It means he's not at all what I or others were referring to when it was mentioned we need shooters.  Same applies to Phinisee.   

You can use the Google to answer your question.

[Old Friend]

4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Agreed completely. 

Then what are you arguing for?

[Old Friend]

3 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

He is recruiting and offering shooters they have just chosen to play for a different college. Archie recruited and offered the best shooter on the circuit in 2018 Cole Swider. Cole decided to go to Nova. In 2019 he recruited and offered Bouknight and Newman. They went elsewhere. Now if you want to argue he should of taken Newman over Franklin for the reason of Newman being an elite shooter then thats an interesting discussion to have.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Should have said "landing" rather than "recruiting," but he's got a bench full of long athletes.  He needs shooters to space the floor for them to be as effective as they can be.

[DChoosier]

Shooters aside I am still baffled as to why we start out so slowly (Archie acknowledged the obvious after today’s game) game after game.  The defense does not start out tight, we tend to have too many early turnovers  (kudos, however, for 7 to’s today), the offense is stagnant and we miss and/or take too many bad shots.  We overcame bad starts vs weak competition but it will be an uphill battle on the road vs every BT team.

[Brass Cannon]

4 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Then shut the hell up.  Otherwise you're arguing to argue.  Context.

Dude you need to chill out and stop the insults. Get over yourself. 

We clearly don't have shooters now. But to pretend like the team doesn't have players that can grow and turn into those is just silly or you just don't think anything of Ed schilling developing our guards. 

Rob and Al can both hit threes.  Plus by all accounts so can Jerome. That's 3 of our top 6 probably next year. Right now we don't have 2 of them and unfortunately probably the best 2. 

And hopefully Smith able to work on that this offseason. As well. 

Archies entire system is predicated on defense first and unfortunately in the modern set up a lot of deadly shooters are coddled and not taught defense. 

[Brass Cannon]

Just now, DChoosier said:

Shooters aside I am still baffled as to why we start out so slowly (Archie acknowledged it after today’s game) game after game.  The defense does not start out tight, we tend to have too many early turnovers  (kudos, however, for 7 to’s today), the offense is stagnant and we miss and/or take too many bad shots.  We overcame bad starts vs weak competition but it will be an uphill battle on the road vs every BT team.

The turnovers astonished me. I think we had 4 in the first 7 minutes then had 3 the rest of the game. The bad shots baffled me the number of long twos we took drove me crazy. A lot of times they were not even open long twos. 

[Uspshoosier]

7 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Are you referring to Fitzner?  Guy averaged 4 points a game at St. Mary's. I don't think expectations were that high.

I remember people losing their minds when zeislost committed. People were concerned that a guy from Illinois St and the MVC conference that average around 5 or 7 points a game could help. He turned out to be a nice grad transfer surprise and exceed most people expectation. When dealing with grad transfers you just don’t know what you are really getting. Fitzner can shoot the ball no denying that he just hasn’t fit in as well as some would like. Hoping he would turn out like Nick instead of Evan Gordon. You play the grad transfer game you win some and lose some. I remember missing out on Lee from temple and hearing that was a big miss and we would regret missing out on him and having to play against him while he was at Ohio St. He was a dud


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Brass Cannon]

11 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

He is recruiting and offering shooters they have just chosen to play for a different college. Archie recruited and offered the best shooter on the circuit in 2018 Cole Swider. Cole decided to go to Nova. In 2019 he recruited and offered Bouknight and Newman. They went elsewhere. Now if you want to argue he should of taken Newman over Franklin for the reason of Newman being an elite shooter then thats an interesting discussion to have.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Franklin has been swishing it to be fair. Last I checked he was shooting 40 percent from 3. Haven't seen numbers for Newman

[Old Friend]

4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Dude you need to chill out and stop the insults. Get over yourself. 

We clearly don't have shooters now. But to pretend like the team doesn't have players that can grow and turn into those is just silly or you just don't think anything of Ed schilling developing our guards. 

Rob and Al can both hit threes.  Plus by all accounts so can Jerome. That's 3 of our top 6 probably next year. Right now we don't have 2 of them and unfortunately probably the best 2. 

And hopefully Smith able to work on that this offseason. As well. 

Archies entire system is predicated on defense first and unfortunately in the modern set up a lot of deadly shooters are coddled and not taught defense. 

You just said you agreed completely, so the better part of an hour has been your arguing for the sake of it.  You took the entire context of the original discussion, changed it to benefit your own point, then said you agreed with the original one.   Whatever...

Your last 4 paragraphs have zero meaning because they have zero to do with the original context which you've ignored for the sake of the argument.  How many of the players you name are catch and shoot guys?  Guys who can legitimately space the floor and cause other teams to game plan for their ability to shoot?   Regardless of how good your defense is (Michigan's is fantastic), you've got to score against teams that know you if you're going to succeed, and to do that, you generally need guys who can shoot it consistently from deep.  That's our missing piece now.  Which was the context of the original discussion.  And you said you agreed.  So why are you arguing?  For the sake of it?   Original question I asked you seems appropriate. 

[DChoosier]

The odd thing about Fitzner is that he was 4-4 from the three against Marquette and 3-3 against Duke (ie he was perfect against 2 of our toughest opponents and against guys that you would think are athletic enough to close out on him quickly). Since Duke he has gone 2-10 from the three in 8 games and has gone from having a smooth stroke to rushing his shot to the point where he is almost just chucking it up.  I did not expect him to light the world on fire but that regression/inconsistency is a bit surprising for a 23 year old senior.  

It could be a difference maker in some upcoming games if he could get his stroke back.

[mdn82]

At least your Colts won. My Bears **** the bed.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[Old Friend]

7 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

I remember people losing their minds when zeislost committed. People were concerned that a guy from Illinois St and the MVC conference that average around 5 or 7 points a game could help. He turned out to be a nice grad transfer surprise and exceed most people expectation. When dealing with grad transfers you just don’t know what you are really getting. Fitzner can shoot ball no denying that he just hasn’t fit in as well as some would like. Hoping he would turn out like Nick instead of Evan Gordon. You play the grad transfer game you win some and lose some. I remember missing out on Lee from temple and hearing that was a big miss and we would regret missing out on him and having to play against him while he was at Ohio St. He was a dud


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Lots of times you grab those guys to balance recruiting classes or put another senior in the locker room.  Not sure why Fitzner was recruited, but one good game against Marquette sealed his fate.  He's generally been taken away from behind the line since then save a few possessions against Duke