So some concerns I’m having...

[chicagoHOOSIER 1,051]

9 minutes ago, Rico said:

That is true...but that is the same Iowa team that tanked coming down the stretch.  But they were a fine squad...as were we.

 

Yes, I started to mention that in my reply, but stopped myself because I did not want the reply to get lost down a wormhole or two.  I suspect those run-and-gun Iowa teams may have suffered the same fate as our run-and-gun IU teams down the stretch but have not looked to confirm or deny that.

Edit:  Upon review they seem to be streaky down the stretch year-in and year-out for the most part, but no solid trend of fading every year the way IU's Crean teams faded, so so much for my suspicions. 

[Rico 3,037]

3 minutes ago, chicagoHOOSIER said:

 

Yes, I started to mention that in my reply, but stopped myself because I did not want the reply to get lost down a wormhole or two.  I suspect those run-and-gun Iowa teams may have suffered the same fate as our run-and-gun IU teams down the stretch but have not looked to confirm or deny that. 

I am think they dropped 5 of their last 7?  But I do remember that 2 of them were to us.  And of course they had a star that had one of the best names in CBB history...Peter Jok!

[chicagoHOOSIER 1,051]

55 minutes ago, Rico said:

I am think they dropped 5 of their last 7?  But I do remember that 2 of them were to us.  And of course they had a star that had one of the best names in CBB history...Peter Jok!

Nice one.  Why do parents do that?

[Uspshoosier 45,679]

I am think they dropped 5 of their last 7?  But I do remember that 2 of them were to us.  And of course they had a star that had one of the best names in CBB history...Peter Jok!

They ended up getting a 7 seed. Beat temple in OT and then ending up getting destroyed by Nova in the second round


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[Brass Cannon 24,801]

There’s a part in the movie Blackhawk Down where General Garrison tells his team that they have lost the initiative. This isn’t in response the majority of the bad things are occurring. It’s earlier when things haven’t completely fallen off the rails yet. They have had some setbacks but thought they would recover up to that point.  And while it is a movie, Garrison would describe it as such in his real life congressional testimony  

I feel this last 48 hours the program lost the initiative. Consecutive stellar recruiting classses are almost required to be where we want as a program. With a weak 2020 class for the state it’s gonna be difficult to get that in 2020.

We obviously flamed out on the floor. And with our best 2 players leaving the margin of error to be improved next year is razor thin. And even if we do get lucky and make it all this summer recruits are going to be told not to come here if they want to go to the tourney. 

Can we still pull this out?  Sure but definitely feels like swimming up stream from here  

 

[MoyeNeeded 3,073]

[Feathery 4,005]

8 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

There’s a part in the movie Blackhawk Down where General Garrison tells his team that they have lost the initiative. This isn’t in response the majority of the bad things are occurring. It’s earlier when things haven’t completely fallen off the rails yet. They have had some setbacks but thought they would recover up to that point.  And while it is a movie, Garrison would describe it as such in his real life congressional testimony  

I feel this last 48 hours the program lost the initiative. Consecutive stellar recruiting classses are almost required to be where we want as a program. With a weak 2020 class for the state it’s gonna be difficult to get that in 2020.

We obviously flamed out on the floor. And with our best 2 players leaving the margin of error to be improved next year is razor thin. And even if we do get lucky and make it all this summer recruits are going to be told not to come here if they want to go to the tourney. 

Can we still pull this out?  Sure but definitely feels like swimming up stream from here  

 

2 seasons ago, nobody thought Morgan would be what he was his junior and senior season. Looking at the roster, as is,  I still think next year we improve minus Romeo and Morgan. We just started 4 freshmen/sophs in the big ten tournament. That is a really young core. Use the off-season and get healthy and keep building. We lose a 5 star SG, who can’t shoot and a undersized post player. We add a 5* post player who has the size and a wing who fits IU and can shoot. Hunter was cleared awhile ago for non contact. Added experience from our already young core and we will see improvements. Don’t forget we improved from year 1 to year 2. Momentum is not lost or stopped. Here is just one potential lineup, 9 man rotation, which to me is top half of big ten quality  

PG - Phinisee SO

SG - Durham JR

SF - Hunter RSFR

PF - TJD FR

C - Davis SR

bench - Green SR, Smith JR, Franklin FR, Race SO. 

 

That is a better offensive team than we have put out in 2 seasons. It’s also bigger and longer for the pack line defense. Now I also expect some roster changes to occur. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. But overall, year 3 has always been key for Archie. He said it takes that long to get the defense where it needs to be. I thought the defense was pretty good this year, when the effort was there. But we had so much youth and passive leaders, it created inconsistency. 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

I’m not sure we start bothDavis and Jackson-Davis. That’s a big frontline with Hunter at the 3. I think we see one of the start and someone else at the 4.

Phin
Durham
Hunter
Smith/ someone else
Davis/Jackson-Davis


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[Feathery 4,005]

12 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

I’m not sure we start bothDavis and Jackson-Davis. That’s a big frontline with Hunter at the 3. I think we see one of the start and someone else at the 4.

Phin
Durham
Hunter
Smith/ someone else
Davis/Jackson-Davis


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That thought crossed my mind as well. However Justin Smith doesn’t stretch the floor either. So I was thinking who will finish at the rim better and/or be more consistent from midrange. That’s why I selected TJD to start with Deron. The other reason I went with TJD to start with Deron is defense. That is a long athletic lineup with Hunter TJD and Deron for the pack line.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

That thought crossed my mind as well. However Justin Smith doesn’t stretch the floor either. So I was thinking who will finish at the rim better and/or be more consistent from midrange. That’s why I selected TJD to start with Deron. The other reason I went with TJD to start with Deron is defense. That is a long athletic lineup with Hunter TJD and Deron for the pack line.

I’m not so sure Jackson-Davis will be chasing around the 4s in the Big Ten that much. I feel like we go through this every off season with our bigs. Zeller will play the 4, Vonleh will play the 4, Morgan will play the 4. It’s not specifically at you, just in general. It seems more likely we end up with Smith or Hunter starting at the 4 than Jackson-Davis starting at the 4.

If Smith is bought in and returns I’d love to see him develop some fire first and foremost. If that rumbles in his belly this off season then the repetitions to be a better shooter will get there. I’d be all for the staff brining in a shooting coach that could work with these guys too.


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[Feathery 4,005]

4 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I’m not so sure Jackson-Davis will be chasing around the 4s in the Big Ten that much. I feel like we go through this every off season with our bigs. Zeller will play the 4, Vonleh will play the 4, Morgan will play the 4. It’s not specifically at you, just in general. It seems more likely we end up with Smith or Hunter starting at the 4 than Jackson-Davis starting at the 4.

If Smith is bought in and returns I’d love to see him develop some fire first and foremost. If that rumbles in his belly this off season then the repetitions to be a better shooter will get there. I’d be all for the staff brining in a shooting coach that could work with these guys too.


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I could see Hunter there as well. I think we will see both our lineups during games throughout the season. 

[yogisballin 2,336]

2 seasons ago, nobody thought Morgan would be what he was his junior and senior season. Looking at the roster, as is,  I still think next year we improve minus Romeo and Morgan. We just started 4 freshmen/sophs in the big ten tournament. That is a really young core. Use the off-season and get healthy and keep building. We lose a 5 star SG, who can’t shoot and a undersized post player. We add a 5* post player who has the size and a wing who fits IU and can shoot. Hunter was cleared awhile ago for non contact. Added experience from our already young core and we will see improvements. Don’t forget we improved from year 1 to year 2. Momentum is not lost or stopped. Here is just one potential lineup, 9 man rotation, which to me is top half of big ten quality  
PG - Phinisee SO
SG - Durham JR
SF - Hunter RSFR
PF - TJD FR
C - Davis SR
bench - Green SR, Smith JR, Franklin FR, Race SO. 
 
That is a better offensive team than we have put out in 2 seasons. It’s also bigger and longer for the pack line defense. Now I also expect some roster changes to occur. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. But overall, year 3 has always been key for Archie. He said it takes that long to get the defense where it needs to be. I thought the defense was pretty good this year, when the effort was there. But we had so much youth and passive leaders, it created inconsistency. 

I see what you’re saying here but I disagree with you about next season. I think we’ll be worse. Although a lot can change with recruiting/grad transfer market


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[Old Friend 8,389]

8 minutes ago, yogisballin said:

I see what you’re saying here but I disagree with you about next season. I think we’ll be worse. Although a lot can change with recruiting/grad transfer market


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As far as kids who contribute, we lose Morgan and Romeo.  We gain Hunter, Jackson-Davis, and Franklin for now and perhaps more.  Thompson will be healthy.  As will Phinisee and Davis.   I don't see how we can be worse.   Morgan was out of position all season.  Romeo showed he is pretty limited for a kid ranked as highly as he was.  Franklin had a senior season at least equal to Romeo; and Jackson-Davis is a flat out player.   I'm not seeing worse.  I'm not seeing Big Ten champ or anything either; but I don't think....21-10 is out of the question.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

As far as kids who contribute, we lose Morgan and Romeo.  We gain Hunter, Jackson-Davis, and Franklin for now and perhaps more.  Thompson will be healthy.  As will Phinisee and Davis.   I don't see how we can be worse.   Morgan was out of position all season.  Romeo showed he is pretty limited for a kid ranked as highly as he was.  Franklin had a senior season at least equal to Romeo; and Jackson-Davis is a flat out player.   I'm not seeing worse.  I'm not seeing Big Ten champ or anything either; but I don't think....21-10 is out of the question.

Maybe hunter. Im not having unrealistic expectations again where I predicted 21-9 this year. Mine wont be high and maybe thats a good thing

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[Feathery 4,005]

5 hours ago, Old Friend said:

As far as kids who contribute, we lose Morgan and Romeo.  We gain Hunter, Jackson-Davis, and Franklin for now and perhaps more.  Thompson will be healthy.  As will Phinisee and Davis.   I don't see how we can be worse.   Morgan was out of position all season.  Romeo showed he is pretty limited for a kid ranked as highly as he was.  Franklin had a senior season at least equal to Romeo; and Jackson-Davis is a flat out player.   I'm not seeing worse.  I'm not seeing Big Ten champ or anything either; but I don't think....21-10 is out of the question.

What he said. Lol

[Feathery 4,005]

13 hours ago, Bailey7878 said:

Maybe hunter. Im not having unrealistic expectations again where I predicted 21-9 this year. Mine wont be high and maybe thats a good thing

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21-9 wasn’t t unrealistic. That losing streak, injuries, harmony, and parent issues all played a part. But we saw a team win 17 games. Without the injuries, I don’t think we lose as many in the streak and win 20+. 

Nothing wrong with reevaluating those expectations when injuries, etc, happen. 

[Joe DeLow 1,278]

As far as kids who contribute, we lose Morgan and Romeo.  We gain Hunter, Jackson-Davis, and Franklin for now and perhaps more.  Thompson will be healthy.  As will Phinisee and Davis.   I don't see how we can be worse.   Morgan was out of position all season.  Romeo showed he is pretty limited for a kid ranked as highly as he was.  Franklin had a senior season at least equal to Romeo; and Jackson-Davis is a flat out player.   I'm not seeing worse.  I'm not seeing Big Ten champ or anything either; but I don't think....21-10 is out of the question.

TJD isn’t going to give us the same as Morgan did his freshman year most likely. Maybe if it were a freshman Cody Zeller coming. Franklin isn’t going to be able to come in and do what Romeo did. He might average half of what Romeo did. Hunter is a complete unknown if he’s ever going to play again. This team is more realistically sitting at about 15-17 wins for the 3 year straight.


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[tortex28 379]

Watching some of the teams play in these conference tournaments, it is evident how far Indiana has to go to really be good again.
I like phinisee and the Davis bros for next year but man, a lot question Mark's after that.

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[JaybobHoosier 11,843]

For argument sake let’s say everyone returns except Romeo. To me, the two biggest question marks will be Smith and Hunter. If Smith can be the player of MSU and Wisconsin, or at least 3/4ths of that, then we are in really good shape. If Hunter comes back 100% with plenty of off-season practice, then that will greatly elevate this team. If all of this happens, I see the starting lineup being tough to decide between 6 players:

Rob
Durham
Hunter/Smith
TJD/Smith
Davis/TJD

Who knows, Green could also force his way into the starting lineup playing the way he did at the end of the season. IU has the potential there when healthy and people playing to their potential.


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[Brass Cannon 24,801]

3 hours ago, Feathery said:

21-9 wasn’t t unrealistic. That losing streak, injuries, harmony, and parent issues all played a part. But we saw a team win 17 games. Without the injuries, I don’t think we lose as many in the streak and win 20+. 

Nitgung wronf with reevaluating those expectations when injuries, etc, happen. 

There is adversity every year one way or another. This team folded like a cheap lawn chair whenever it experienced it except for the last 4 games of the regular season.