ALLEN thinking of turning over defensive coordinator duties to someone else.

[HoosierFan1994 4,720]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Did any of those guys happen to walk by Glasses office the day he fired Wilson. 

Right place right time I guess. Smh 

and Indiana even lost the bowl game Tommy boy coached. It was just so silly how he was handed this job. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

He would be better off handing the head coaching job to someone else and remaining the defensive coordinator.

Let's face it.  Indiana has a ceiling.  In the Big Ten East, there's just not much upside.  Save anomalies, we start the season 0-3 about every year.   Yeah, the other 9 are all winnable in a perfect world; but there's just no margin for error.   Until that reality changes, I truly believe Indiana has decided to spend money on general facilities and make sure men's basketball (which is their obvious bell cow) stays solvent and at the top of its game.   I think that's a part of why Crean was let go a year following his second Big Ten title.  On  paper, at another school, he probably should have kept his job.  But not here.

I am resigned to Indiana just not having the desire to spend money on a football coach because IU is not a destination.  It's a stepping stone for younger coaches.  Allen at least gives the program stability and I know he's a hard worker.    That doesn't qualify him for anything, but at least he has recruiting connections in Florida and in Indiana.   We're at a plateau to be sure.  I just don't know (meaning I'm not convinced) there's a lot more upside to this program in the Big Ten East.

[HoosierFan1994 4,720]

3 hours ago, Old Friend said:

He would be better off handing the head coaching job to someone else and remaining the defensive coordinator.

Let's face it.  Indiana has a ceiling.  In the Big Ten East, there's just not much upside.  Save anomalies, we start the season 0-3 about every year.   Yeah, the other 9 are all winnable in a perfect world; but there's just no margin for error.   Until that reality changes, I truly believe Indiana has decided to spend money on general facilities and make sure men's basketball (which is their obvious bell cow) stays solvent and at the top of its game.   I think that's a part of why Crean was let go a year following his second Big Ten title.  On  paper, at another school, he probably should have kept his job.  But not here.

I am resigned to Indiana just not having the desire to spend money on a football coach because IU is not a destination.  It's a stepping stone for younger coaches.  Allen at least gives the program stability and I know he's a hard worker.    That doesn't qualify him for anything, but at least he has recruiting connections in Florida and in Indiana.   We're at a plateau to be sure.  I just don't know (meaning I'm not convinced) there's a lot more upside to this program in the Big Ten East.

I agree with you. I don't think IU will ever contend for a B1G championship in football. However, I feel a coach like Fitzgerald or Ferentz could have won 8-9 games with this team. 

[jmsgws 2,181]

 

5 hours ago, Old Friend said:

He would be better off handing the head coaching job to someone else and remaining the defensive coordinator.

Let's face it.  Indiana has a ceiling.  In the Big Ten East, there's just not much upside.  Save anomalies, we start the season 0-3 about every year.   Yeah, the other 9 are all winnable in a perfect world; but there's just no margin for error.   Until that reality changes, I truly believe Indiana has decided to spend money on general facilities and make sure men's basketball (which is their obvious bell cow) stays solvent and at the top of its game.   I think that's a part of why Crean was let go a year following his second Big Ten title.  On  paper, at another school, he probably should have kept his job.  But not here.

I am resigned to Indiana just not having the desire to spend money on a football coach because IU is not a destination.  It's a stepping stone for younger coaches.  Allen at least gives the program stability and I know he's a hard worker.    That doesn't qualify him for anything, but at least he has recruiting connections in Florida and in Indiana.   We're at a plateau to be sure.  I just don't know (meaning I'm not convinced) there's a lot more upside to this program in the Big Ten East.

I agree 100% on the ceiling, but we are not even getting off the floor.  

I don't see us  finishing higher than 4th in the East, but I do think it should be expected to at least make a bowl more often than not.  
 

I really wish we could get some alumni support for the FB program like we get for the BB program. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

He's gonna go from being a head coach of a fair-to-middling Power 5 program to being the OC at the worst Power 5 program in the country? The Magic 8-Ball says: Very doubtful. I say: 0.0000 percent chance that happens. 

But someone said if we pay enough money anyone will come here!


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

 
I agree 100% on the ceiling, but we are not even getting off the floor.  

I don't see us  finishing higher than 4th in the East, but I do think it should be expected to at least make a bowl more often than not.  
 
I really wish we could get some alumni support for the FB program like we get for the BB program. 

Is there anything even remotely exciting about going to “a bowl”? Not really when half of the FBS goes. There’s no real value. Wilson took us to bowl games and I’d say alumni support only marginally improved. Unless IUFB is consistently ranked or beating ranked teams, it’s going to be tough to generate net new supporters.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Brass Cannon 24,268]

9 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Is there anything even remotely exciting about going to “a bowl”? Not really when half of the FBS goes. There’s no real value. Wilson took us to bowl games and I’d say alumni support only marginally improved. Unless IUFB is consistently ranked or beating ranked teams, it’s going to be tough to generate net new supporters.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

The only real advantage is extra practice time. And additional financial reasons. Which theoretically make it easier to win in the future. I stress theoretically. 

[jmsgws 2,181]

2 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Is there anything even remotely exciting about going to “a bowl”? Not really when half of the FBS goes. There’s no real value. Wilson took us to bowl games and I’d say alumni support only marginally improved. Unless IUFB is consistently ranked or beating ranked teams, it’s going to be tough to generate net new supporters.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Have you been to any of the bowls that IU has gone to?  I have, and it is a blast.  

When 1/2 of the FBS is going to bowls, and we are not....   I would make the argument, that not going to a bowl is a lot worse than going.

Going to a bowl, you get an extra month of practice, the program is seen on television at least one more time, and I think both of those things are good for a program.  

Look at this year.  any talk about IU football is only going to be about what coaching changes, if any will be made.  Worse, that that, is that no one will be talking about IU football at all.   

So, yes, I will take any bowl every year. 

To your point about getting new supporters.  I agree, it is going to take much more than just qualifying for a bowl to get supporters.  We have talked about that a lot through the years, and we always seem to come back to consistently winning is the only way to get an increase in fan support,  well that starts with getting to a bowl every year. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

3 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Is there anything even remotely exciting about going to “a bowl”? Not really when half of the FBS goes. There’s no real value. Wilson took us to bowl games and I’d say alumni support only marginally improved. Unless IUFB is consistently ranked or beating ranked teams, it’s going to be tough to generate net new supporters.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Then we won't generate new supporters. IU is in football Purgatory.  No good coach will use Indiana as a destination because there is a definite ceiling on how much Indiana can win.   We're not going to get 4 and 5* recruits to compete with and beat OSU, Michigan, and PSU on a regular basis.  We're just not.   Foolish to think we will.  So there's really no formula to succeed as Indiana in the Big Ten East beyond "going to a bowl."

I know how defeatist that sounds, but it's reality.  Indiana, Maryland, and Rutgers fight the most uphill battle in BCS college sports and it's not close.

[barrettballer 513]

It took Kevin Wilson 5 years to go 6-6 at Indiana and he didn’t exactly leave a full cupboard of talent for Allen imo a lot of the bright spots of this season were Tom Allen guys. I’m not satisfied with 5-7 and think we should’ve won more games but I think by getting a new OC and a year of development we could have a really nice team.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[Brass Cannon 24,268]

8 hours ago, barrettballer said:

It took Kevin Wilson 5 years to go 6-6 at Indiana and he didn’t exactly leave a full cupboard of talent for Allen imo a lot of the bright spots of this season were Tom Allen guys. I’m not satisfied with 5-7 and think we should’ve won more games but I think by getting a new OC and a year of development we could have a really nice team.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Not opposed to giving Allen some more time but Debord does have to go

[Magnanimous 4,504]

The reason I remain (partially) optimistic on Allen is that if he finds a degree of success he will stay. This program needs someone a la Bill Snyder to stick around for a while to develop a foundation, and it is either going to be a "good enough" guy like Allen who will likely never be great but has the potential to turn us into a perennial 8 win team that occasionally wins 9-10 or we need to get a formally successful P5 coach whose time is up at the big boy level. Wash St. got it with Leach and Cincy did it with Tuberville. A young up and comer will leave here the first chance he gets.

It goes back to that Moneyball quote about knowing your place. "If we try to be the Yankees in here we will lose to Yankees out there." Well if we try to build a program like Michigan or Penn State does, we will will lose to them. We don't need a gimmick per say, but we do need an idenity for how we do things given our resources. It's how the West Virginias and TCUs of the world can compete with the likes of Oklahoma and Ohio State. Debord is over the hill and we need a young mind who can be innovative in today's game to be running the offense. Allen is at least bringing southern speed to the defensive side of the ball, which is allowing us to overcome our size deficiency. I think the recruits we are bringing in are talented and need some time to develop before we wipe the slate clean again, but until IUFB decides what it wants it's brand of football to be we will never go above a marginal bowl team. 

 

[Lebowski 2,443]

Man, a lot of folks are calling for CTA's head on here  I don't see it that way at all.  Compared to Wilson, Coach Allen has won two more conference games and five more games at the finish of their 2nd year.  And of those first 2 years under Allen the Hoosiers were one game away from bowl eligibility.  It took Wilson 5 years to go bowling or even have a chance to go bowling.  

IU has a grand total of losing 3 starters on the offense and 4 on the defense.  That's, wait for it, 7 total starters!  This team is extremely young.  Like way young!  Not to mention the 2019 commits is one of the best the school's had in awhile.  

IU football is in a division that is and will always be an up hill battle for this program.  When you see a school like Northwestern winning the west division the way they did you quickly realize just how incredibly difficult it is for schools like IU, Maryland and Rutgers.  

If he thinks he needs to relieve his duties as DC to do other things for the team then I'm fine with that.  I really think this program is going in the right direction.  For example, this year they were able to get a couple of in state recruits that would typically go to some other program commit to IU.  The program has an open door policy for the high school coaches in state.  And from what I understand a lot of these high schools coaches really like that.  He's an Indiana guy and if he actually succeeds I'm not sure he'll leave. 

There's a lot of upside here and I hope he succeeds.  

[Brass Cannon 24,268]

6 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

Man, a lot of folks are calling for CTA's head on here  I don't see it that way at all.  Compared to Wilson, Coach Allen has won two more conference games and five more games at the finish of their 2nd year.  And of those first 2 years under Allen the Hoosiers were one game away from bowl eligibility.  It took Wilson 5 years to go bowling or even have a chance to go bowling.  

IU has a grand total of losing 3 starters on the offense and 4 on the defense.  That's, wait for it, 7 total starters!  This team is extremely young.  Like way young!  Not to mention the 2019 commits is one of the best the school's had in awhile.  

IU football is in a division that is and will always be an up hill battle for this program.  When you see a school like Northwestern winning the west division the way they did you quickly realize just how incredibly difficult it is for schools like IU, Maryland and Rutgers.  

If he thinks he needs to relieve his duties as DC to do other things for the team then I'm fine with that.  I really think this program is going in the right direction.  For example, this year they were able to get a couple of in state recruits that would typically go to some other program commit to IU.  The program has an open door policy for the high school coaches in state.  And from what I understand a lot of these high schools coaches really like that.  He's an Indiana guy and if he actually succeeds I'm not sure he'll leave. 

There's a lot of upside here and I hope he succeeds.  

Tom Allen inherited a team that went to a bowl. Wilson inherited a total mess with a bare cupboard. Different expectations. 

Look how quickly a real coach can turn around a program. Brohm has been bowling both years after they were utter garbage for 4 years 

[HoosierFan1994 4,720]

7 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

Man, a lot of folks are calling for CTA's head on here  I don't see it that way at all.  Compared to Wilson, Coach Allen has won two more conference games and five more games at the finish of their 2nd year.  And of those first 2 years under Allen the Hoosiers were one game away from bowl eligibility.  It took Wilson 5 years to go bowling or even have a chance to go bowling.  

IU has a grand total of losing 3 starters on the offense and 4 on the defense.  That's, wait for it, 7 total starters!  This team is extremely young.  Like way young!  Not to mention the 2019 commits is one of the best the school's had in awhile.  

IU football is in a division that is and will always be an up hill battle for this program.  When you see a school like Northwestern winning the west division the way they did you quickly realize just how incredibly difficult it is for schools like IU, Maryland and Rutgers.  

If he thinks he needs to relieve his duties as DC to do other things for the team then I'm fine with that.  I really think this program is going in the right direction.  For example, this year they were able to get a couple of in state recruits that would typically go to some other program commit to IU.  The program has an open door policy for the high school coaches in state.  And from what I understand a lot of these high schools coaches really like that.  He's an Indiana guy and if he actually succeeds I'm not sure he'll leave. 

There's a lot of upside here and I hope he succeeds.  

A recruiting class that ESPN and 247 has as 10th best in the Big Ten.... I'm not a fan of CTA at all. I don't think he did anything to deserve this job. Next year is a BIG year for him. If IU has another 5-7 season or worse he should be gone. Kevin Wilson wasn't the answer either but he brought in some talent towards the end of his IU tenure. 

[HoosierFan1994 4,720]

5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Tom Allen inherited a team that went to a bowl. Wilson inherited a total mess with a bare cupboard. Different expectations. 

Look how quickly a real coach can turn around a program. Brohm has been bowling both years after they were utter garbage for 4 years 

Yes, Lynch was actually worse than Tom Allen. Kevin Wilson brought in some talent but still wasn't the answer. Brohm was there for IU in 2016. He would have been perfect here. Has had less talent than IU and still is going to a bowl game. 

[Lebowski 2,443]

8 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Tom Allen inherited a team that went to a bowl. Wilson inherited a total mess with a bare cupboard. Different expectations. 

Look how quickly a real coach can turn around a program. Brohm has been howling both years after they were utter garbage for 4 years 

Wilson wasn't the right guy for the state of Indiana.  I wish him the best of luck on his endeavors.  

2 minutes ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

A recruiting class that ESPN and 247 has as 10th best in the Big Ten.... I'm not a fan of CTA at all. I don't think he did anything to deserve this job. Next year is a BIG year for him. If IU has another 5-7 season or worse he should be gone. Kevin Wilson wasn't the answer either but he brought in some talent towards the end of his IU tenure. 

I wholeheartedly agree next year is a very big year for CTA.  

[Brass Cannon 24,268]

Just now, Lebowski said:

Wilson wasn't the right guy for the state of Indiana.  I wish him the best of luck on his endeavors.  

I wholeheartedly agree next year is a very big year for CTA.  

Never said Wilson was. That doesn’t mean TA hasnt been a disappointment that has underachieved. 

[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

7 minutes ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

Yes, Lynch was actually worse than Tom Allen. Kevin Wilson brought in some talent but still wasn't the answer. Brohm was there for IU in 2016. He would have been perfect here. Has had less talent than IU and still is going to a bowl game. 

If we aren't willing to pony up any $$$ then we will keep hiring unproven coaches instead of the hot up and comer coach like Brohm. Heck, even Kansas finally ponied up and gave some $$ to Les Miles. Not a home run hire but he does offer some hope and promise. It's amazing that we choose not to devote the necessary resources to getting the right fit here. 

[Lebowski 2,443]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Never said Wilson was. That doesn’t mean TA hasnt been a disappointment that has underachieved. 

I hear ya.  I'm not sure I would call it underachieved.  We're talking IU football here.