2018-2019 Rotation Discussion Thread

[rcbowla]

Exceptional first sentence.  Some people just want to argue.  It sometimes takes minutiae in order to satisfy that craving, and I find it sporty to counter.   My apologies for my role in it, however sometimes...a good debate is needed for some.

"Some people"? A majority of your posts are argumentative or to rebut an opposing point. But hey you coached for 20+ years and I'm sure you DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS! Seriously though I really don't think your coaching longevity gives your "opinion" instant validity like you would want all of us to believe. Learn to accept differing opinions and be able to move on.

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[Old Friend]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

People disagree with that basic premise. The top 2 teams in the big ten leaned heavily on players similar to McRoberts. 

There is no reason to use him playing as a knock on the team 

This is not accurate.   You can dig and find what some may find "similarities," but the top 2 Big Ten teams did not rely on players who are no threat at all to score.   Similar (if you reach) stat lines do not make them similar players.

[Old Friend]

9 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

"Some people"? A majority of your posts are argumentative or to rebut an opposing point. But hey you coached for 20+ years and I'm sure you DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS! Seriously though I really don't think your coaching longevity gives your "opinion" instant validity like you would want all of us to believe. Learn to accept differing opinions and be able to move on.

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No....they really kind of aren't.  Take a look back at this thread and let me know whose tone was argumenative.    Hell, take a look at THIS post.  A Dodge Stratus?   Really?  That's all you have?  (2014 Ford Explorer Platinum if you need to know)  

You've now gotten off the point, which tells me a whole lot and you're telling me to accept your fabricated comparison and change my tone when you're the guy who took an argumenative tone to begin with.   (I do love the basic statement "accept my opinion...dammit" stance.)  Sorry, pal.  You fire, I'm firing back.  Go back and read.  My first post started out "All due respect to Brass Cannon...."   And my next ones were polite.  My last to you?  No, but put the blame where it belongs.

For the record, I don't care one bit whether or not my background gives me validity.  I would think the facts would, as would history, but maybe not.  Maybe you can't see past the style.  I'm nothing but a guy next to you on a bar stool.  Go with that or assume something else.  Your call.

Now...back on point or...not?

[Brass Cannon]

9 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

This is not accurate.   You can dig and find what some may find "similarities," but the top 2 Big Ten teams did not rely on players who are no threat at all to score.   Similar (if you reach) stat lines do not make them similar players.

Simiar talent level. And as stated several times you don't need scoring from all 5 starters. Every shot McRoberts takes will be one less for Morgan, Smith and Romeo. 

Wisconsin started Josh Gasser 40 games in 2015. The guy averaged a point every 5 minutes. Hardly a threat to score

[Old Friend]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Simiar talent level. And as stated several times you don't need scoring from all 5 starters. Every shot McRoberts takes will be one less for Morgan, Smith and Romeo. 

Wisconsin started Josh Gasser 40 games in 2015. The guy averaged a point every 5 minutes. Hardly a threat to score

No...you don't.  I agree with that argument and never said you do.  The difference in what I did say is subtle, but significant because of the way teams defend you.   A guy who isn't a threat allows a player to float and make things more difficult for everyone else.

But I disagree with his playing starter minutes in this case because he isn't even a threat to score.   Do I think it matters if he starts the game?   No.    But starting the game and playing starter minutes are different things.   I think if we need McRoberts to play 20+ minutes every night, we're in trouble.  There are only 200 minutes to go around; and last season we needed him.  Different season, different team.

I like him.  As I have said multiple times.  I truly do.  He has a role, and it may be a significant role.  But now that we have added 6 new faces (counting Thompson), all of whom are more athletic and talented than McRoberts is, I believe his role should diminish because we don't need him as much as we did a season ago.  

Josh Gasser averaged ~ 7 PPG from his sophomore season through his senior season.  He also took 180+ shots per season after his freshman year.  He was a threat.   McRoberts took 68 shots and is not a threat.  McRoberts averaged 2.8 a year ago, and as I said, 1/3rd of his points came against 3 teams...IPFW, Tennessee Tech, and Youngstown State; otherwise, he averages about 1.9 PPG.  Not a valid comparison to Gasser.

[rcbowla]

Just in case people haven't seen this:

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[JSHoosier]

I like McRoberts and he has some value, but if we're relying on him as heavily as last season then something went wrong.  He doesn't really excel at anything but his IQ and hustle lets him make the small plays, and there is value there; he does need to at least be able to keep the defense honest though or you playing 4 on 5.

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

No...you don't.  I agree with that argument and never said you do.  The difference in what I did say is subtle, but significant because of the way teams defend you.   A guy who isn't a threat allows a player to float and make things more difficult for everyone else.

But I disagree with his playing starter minutes in this case because he isn't even a threat to score.   Do I think it matters if he starts the game?   No.    But starting the game and playing starter minutes are different things.   I think if we need McRoberts to play 20+ minutes every night, we're in trouble.  There are only 200 minutes to go around; and last season we needed him.  Different season, different team.

I like him.  As I have said multiple times.  I truly do.  He has a role, and it may be a significant role.  But now that we have added 6 new faces (counting Thompson), all of whom are more athletic and talented than McRoberts is, I believe his role should diminish because we don't need him as much as we did a season ago.  

Josh Gasser averaged ~ 7 PPG from his sophomore season through his senior season.  He also took 180+ shots per season after his freshman year.  He was a threat.   McRoberts took 68 shots and is not a threat.  McRoberts averaged 2.8 a year ago, and as I said, 1/3rd of his points came against 3 teams...IPFW, Tennessee Tech, and Youngstown State; otherwise, he averages about 1.9 PPG.  Not a valid comparison to Gasser.

Gasser averaged 8 points per 40 minutes. Mcroberts is like 6 points per 40 minutes

That is in no way shape or form a significant difference. 

[Brass Cannon]

At the end of the day i think Fitzner starts and Mcroberts comes off the bench. 

Assuming Thompson is ready to contribute we will start Smith, Morgan and Fitzner. With there being heated conpetition for the rest of the minutes in the front court  

Romeo starts obviously  beginning to suspect Phinisee will also start  with heated competition for bench Minutes  

 

[Old Friend]

25 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Gasser averaged 8 points per 40 minutes. Mcroberts is like 6 points per 40 minutes

That is in no way shape or form a significant difference. 

You're nit picking.  Gasser took 3x the number of shots, and scored 3.5x the number of points.  His role was different.  He was a threat.  McRoberts is not a threat.  You're splitting hairs in order to make a point.  

[Old Friend]

9 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

At the end of the day i think Fitzner starts and Mcroberts comes off the bench. 

Assuming Thompson is ready to contribute we will start Smith, Morgan and Fitzner. With there being heated conpetition for the rest of the minutes in the front court  

Romeo starts obviously  beginning to suspect Phinisee will also start  with heated competition for bench Minutes  

 

This makes the overall point.   I'm reading this wondering why you're expending so much energy comparing McRoberts w Josh Gasser; because this is what I'm saying....and what I'll stand by.  Indiana does not need McRoberts to play as many minutes this season as last, and there are now more talented players available to start and play more minutes.  He is a walk on because his level was Vermont; and his numbers as a freshman there suggested that fit was a good one.  At a place like Indiana, in a year where they have high aspirations; his role shouldn't be as large and he shouldn't start nor play starter minutes on THIS team.

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

You're nit picking.  Gasser took 3x the number of shots, and scored 3.5x the number of points.  His role was different.  He was a threat.  McRoberts is not a threat.  You're splitting hairs in order to make a point.  

No i am not nit picking. Im using the per 40 stat for what its intended for. To correct for imbalances in playing time. 

Zack played in 12 fewer games and and fewer minutes per game. Of course his totals and per game are going to be off. 

You are just biased and are excluding data that doesnt back up your point. 

The root issue in 40 minutes of basketball gasser gave about 8 points. Mcroberts just shy of 6. Not that substantially. 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

17 hours ago, Old Friend said:

I think everyone disagrees with me on #2.  Maybe #1, too because people (rightfully) fell in love w McRoberts.  Yep...he is a winning player, but on a team with as much talent and athletic ability as this one has, I see him as a far bigger contributor off the bench than I do playing starter's minutes.

Shockingly enough, I agree and have said the same thing. If McRoberts is starting, it better be because he figured out that he's allowed to score.

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

This makes the overall point.   I'm reading this wondering why you're expending so much energy comparing McRoberts w Josh Gasser; because this is what I'm saying....and what I'll stand by.  Indiana does not need McRoberts to play as many minutes this season as last, and there are now more talented players available to start and play more minutes.  He is a walk on because his level was Vermont; and his numbers as a freshman there suggested that fit was a good one.  At a place like Indiana, in a year where they have high aspirations; his role shouldn't be as large and he shouldn't start nor play starter minutes on THIS team.

Im not using energy and my point is your reasoning is flawed anout McRoberts your biased because hes a walk on and frankly you are overly biased towards points scored not giving fair value to defense, passing and rebounding. 

[Old Friend]

19 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Im not using energy and my point is your reasoning is flawed anout McRoberts your biased because hes a walk on and frankly you are overly biased towards points scored not giving fair value to defense, passing and rebounding. 

Wow.   Thank you for clearing up all of those things "I am" for me.   I was confuzzled.   Hell, dude, I started this out saying "all due respect" to you, and look where it took us.  This is on you...not me. 

Your opinion is your opinion.  You've been given examples and facts to back up everything I've said.  You clearly don't get what I'm trying to tell you because you're focused on numbers.  I have no bias because he is a walk on.  For the 3rd time....my opinion is based on WHY he's a walk on, not THAT he's a walk on.  I've pointed out those reasons repeatedly.  You're not biased in his favor, are you?   Pot..meet kettle.  

[Old Friend]

25 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

No i am not nit picking. Im using the per 40 stat for what its intended for. To correct for imbalances in playing time. 

Zack played in 12 fewer games and and fewer minutes per game. Of course his totals and per game are going to be off. 

You are just biased and are excluding data that doesnt back up your point. 

The root issue in 40 minutes of basketball gasser gave about 8 points. Mcroberts just shy of 6. Not that substantially. 

There is no data that doesn't back up my point unless you eliminate some of it to favor yours.  Good grief.  (And you had to go back 3 seasons to find that comparison..which made me smile.  And you have one.  A single comparison to make your point.  I can find about 800 that prove mine if you want to look them up)

[rcbowla]

There is no data that doesn't back up my point unless you eliminate some of it to favor yours.  Good grief.  (And you had to go back 3 seasons to find that comparison..which made me smile.  And you have one.  A single comparison to make your point.  I can find about 800 that prove mine if you want to look them up)

You were right earlier......you don't argue with people at all. My bad

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[Brass Cannon]

5 hours ago, Old Friend said:

There is no data that doesn't back up my point unless you eliminate some of it to favor yours.  Good grief.  (And you had to go back 3 seasons to find that comparison..which made me smile.  And you have one.  A single comparison to make your point.  I can find about 800 that prove mine if you want to look them up)

Actually the way you phrased your challenge you made a definitive statements that good teams DONT do something.  Which means one example is all I need to prove you wrong.  Which I provided.  

Good teams have basketball players who are there to do things besides score all the time.  Dennis Rodman would be another great example

[MikeRoberts]

P.j tucker is another good example of a guy that is really not much of a scoring threat that plays starter minutes on the best regular season team in the NBA.


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[Stuhoo]

P.j tucker is another good example of a guy that is really not much of a scoring threat that plays starter minutes on the best regular season team in the NBA.


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So is OG Anunoby!


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