Soapbox Time. Students, get your butts to the games!

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

13 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

If we're talking about printer ink or business shirts, you're right, and it IS that simple.  It's not that simple in this case.   The problem is, we're talking about a lot of things that are intangible, and crowd affects the on-court product.  More complicated business concept, here.   

Our crowd and our environment can have a direct affect on recruits' opinions of our program and  whether or not they would like to play at Indiana, and all you have to do is look through quotes of some kids who have been through a visit during a "big game" and those who saw us play....Rutgers.  A kid's experience and perception affects his decision, which ultimately affects the talent level that affects the product on the floor down the road. 

Crowd involvement and participation also directly affects a team's performance.....it creates home court advantage and it can alleviate it if the crowd is sterile; and you know that as well as I do.  Buildings don't create that home court advantage; crowds do.   Students fuel the rest of the crowd because of the energy they bring.

So to say it's not the consumers' "fault" (wrong word) they don't want to consume the product has more layers to it than you suggest.  A deeper dive into the concept provides some additional thoughts.   The consumer - in a unique situation compared to general business - can have a direct affect on the product they choose to consume.  Kinda' like when consumers generally said they hated the "new Coke."  The old one came back.   The "back in my day" formula.   A direct result of consumer involvement.  

I think you're forgetting that there is very little shared investment value for the consumer outside of pure entertainment value. I agree, the crowd completely adds to our performance, ability to retain players, ability to recruit top players and coaches, and ability to raise funds. All the more reason Indiana needs to figure out why they aren't providing enough value or incentives to retain one of their most valuable assets. Simple.

In your example, Coke is superior to its competitors, and attracts many consumers. It also offers a product mix, which can cannibalize its existing product consumption, or tap into a whole new segment of consumers. Indiana basketball is competing against all other forms of entertainment - music, Netflix, the state fair, belligerently drunk coed extravaganzas - and [potentially cannibalizes the consumption of its live experience product via streaming and broadcasting the game. It is their business and their business alone to drive their consumers to the product that produces the highest profit margin. I think we both agree that there are significant reasons why that live experience is the most important product.

The fans have ZERO responsibility to provide "free" aid to Indiana basketball. If the only force driving fans to games is sentiment, well, that's a pretty weak business model.

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,307]

21 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

If we're talking about printer ink or business shirts, you're right, and it IS that simple.  It's not that simple in this case.   The problem is, we're talking about a lot of things that are intangible, and crowd affects the on-court product.  More complicated business concept, here.   

 

I agree to a certain extent. Sports fandom is not rational in the economic sense of the word. Crowds don't show up or stay home based purely on entertainment value. Students and fans (especially alumni) are emotionally invested in the team. On the other hand, players and fans get motivated/energized by rivalry games or highly ranked opponents and sometimes show up flat for unremarkable opponents. That part is just human nature and I find it hard to believe that the Hall was always rocking full volume for a bottom-barrel conference opponent even in the "good old days."

Does Archie need to come out and say we need more support for the non-premium home games? Public shaming is a hell of a tool when used properly.

[Old Friend 8,389]

26 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

I think you're forgetting that there is very little shared investment value for the consumer outside of pure entertainment value. I agree, the crowd completely adds to our performance, ability to retain players, ability to recruit top players and coaches, and ability to raise funds. All the more reason Indiana needs to figure out why they aren't providing enough value or incentives to retain one of their most valuable assets. Simple.

In your example, Coke is superior to its competitors, and attracts many consumers. It also offers a product mix, which can cannibalize its existing product consumption, or tap into a whole new segment of consumers. Indiana basketball is competing against all other forms of entertainment - music, Netflix, the state fair, belligerently drunk coed extravaganzas - and [potentially cannibalizes the consumption of its live experience product via streaming and broadcasting the game. It is their business and their business alone to drive their consumers to the product that produces the highest profit margin. I think we both agree that there are significant reasons why that live experience is the most important product.

The fans have ZERO responsibility to provide "free" aid to Indiana basketball. If the only force driving fans to games is sentiment, well, that's a pretty weak business model.

We're not talking about responsibility necessarily.   I hear all the time we want a winner, etc.   Well...then do your part.  The students have a very important role.  

Hi Josh.

[Josh 12,644]

Hi Josh.

Hi!

Not sure if that was for me or not, but it looked friendly.

[Magnanimous 4,603]

IU needs to do more to physically assist students getting to games. I lived near the square when I was at IU for undergrad, and unless we wanted to doll out $20+/game for parking, it was quite a hike in the middle of winter to get to games, especially on weeknights when you had to juggle classes. We made 95% of the games, and this was during Crean's first three years, so kudos to us, but the school needs to provide shuttle service from the union, and possibly both the mall and downtown, to get the casual student fans to games. 

I know it sounds pathetic, but when you factor in that students are usually coming from classes to weeknight games with IU's bag policy, it's a huge hassle to have to go back to your apartment/dorm/house just to drop off your bag to head back two miles to 17th street. They shut down the bus routes around Assembly Hall an hour or so before games, so you can't take traditional campus transportation right to the stadiums on game day. If IU still allowed traditional backpacks into the arena, as well as totes and non-clutch pocketbooks, this wouldn't be as big of an issue for students. The tickets are being bought, so it's not necessarily a lack of interest in the product (though parts of this season have left much to be desired) but a lack of support to assist students in the face of new security policies.

I know this is only part of the problem, but when coupled with a lackluster product, it adds to the issue. And like what was already mentioned, this isn't only a problem at IU.

 

[Andrew_114 105]

IU needs to do more to physically assist students getting to games. I lived near the square when I was at IU for undergrad, and unless we wanted to doll out $20+/game for parking, it was quite a hike in the middle of winter to get to games, especially on weeknights when you had to juggle classes. We made 95% of the games, and this was during Crean's first three years, so kudos to us, but the school needs to provide shuttle service from the union, and possibly both the mall and downtown, to get the casual student fans to games. 

I know it sounds pathetic, but when you factor in that students are usually coming from classes to weeknight games with IU's bag policy, it's a huge hassle to have to go back to your apartment/dorm/house just to drop off your bag to head back two miles to 17th street. They shut down the bus routes around Assembly Hall an hour or so before games, so you can't take traditional campus transportation right to the stadiums on game day. If IU still allowed traditional backpacks into the arena, as well as totes and non-clutch pocketbooks, this wouldn't be as big of an issue for students. The tickets are being bought, so it's not necessarily a lack of interest in the product (though parts of this season have left much to be desired) but a lack of support to assist students in the face of new security policies.

I know this is only part of the problem, but when coupled with a lackluster product, it adds to the issue. And like what was already mentioned, this isn't only a problem at IU.

 

 

I don't necessarily agree with any side in this argument but did want to point out that students can park for free in Gate 10 by showing their ticket and student ID. It's not well advertised but it is a thing. That does mean you need a car on campus though. But if you live off campus I'd assume you have access to a car.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using BtownBanners mobile app

 

 

 

[zsmithey4 224]

First off, everyone needs to chill out. There is no reason to complain about stuff you cannot control. A big reason for lack of student attendance is that the General Admission system is absolutely terrible. A lot of schools you go wait in line and you get a ticket and then go home like the morning of the game. This year I waited from 9 am to 9 pm for the Duke game and 8:30 am to 3 yesterday. Students have lives and are not all as crazily obsessed with IU basketball as others. If they fixed the system I firmly believe attendance would jump. Not to mention they dont let you bring drinks in the line even if theyre sealed and you can only bring snacks if they are unopened. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,432]

21 minutes ago, Andrew_114 said:

 

I don't necessarily agree with any side in this argument but did want to point out that students can park for free in Gate 10 by showing their ticket and student ID. It's not well advertised but it is a thing. That does mean you need a car on campus though. But if you live off campus I'd assume you have access to a car.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using BtownBanners mobile app

 

 

 

Wait, what? How long has this been a thing?

[Andrew_114 105]

Wait, what? How long has this been a thing?

Umm I think I heard about it 2 years ago. I believe it was new then but not positive.

Sent from my SM-G950U using BtownBanners mobile app

[Hoosierfan2017 21,432]

14 minutes ago, zsmithey4 said:

First off, everyone needs to chill out. There is no reason to complain about stuff you cannot control. A big reason for lack of student attendance is that the General Admission system is absolutely terrible. A lot of schools you go wait in line and you get a ticket and then go home like the morning of the game. This year I waited from 9 am to 9 pm for the Duke game and 8:30 am to 3 yesterday. Students have lives and are not all as crazily obsessed with IU basketball as others. If they fixed the system I firmly believe attendance would jump. Not to mention they dont let you bring drinks in the line even if theyre sealed and you can only bring snacks if they are unopened. 

GA sucks ever since they expanded it to the balcony. My freshman and sophomore years (the Vonleh season and the next year) we got two GA tickets and the rest were assigned. I liked that better than having almost all GA tickets. I was fine with standing in line for an hour or two, but I didn't have time to stand in line all day for a good seat. I've known people who waited all day, but still ended up in the balcony due to people holding spots for other people/cutting in line. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,432]

2 minutes ago, Andrew_114 said:

 

Umm I think I heard about it 2 years ago. I believe it was new then but not positive.

Sent from my SM-G950U using BtownBanners mobile app
 

 

Dang! I wish I had known about that. Would've been really convenient. 

[dbmhoosier 851]

My freshman year we only got 4 tickets as it was coming off the FF season so demand was sky high.  We weren't that great as JJ was now gone but the Hall was packed every game even for the crappy non conference ones.  Make a FF again and the Hall will always be full.

[Magnanimous 4,603]

1 hour ago, Andrew_114 said:

 

I don't necessarily agree with any side in this argument but did want to point out that students can park for free in Gate 10 by showing their ticket and student ID. It's not well advertised but it is a thing. That does mean you need a car on campus though. But if you live off campus I'd assume you have access to a car.

 

That's not well advertised at all. Also, most students who live off-campus and use a car to get around normally park at the stadium during the day and take the express bus to the union, but you need to move your car on gameday. Either park at the mall's designated area for these stadium parking students, or find somewhere on a side street. Since they're being told to move their cars for the game, it's unlikely most students who drive to campus would move it for a bit to bring it back to the stadium. 

[Aaron 4,293]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

GA sucks ever since they expanded it to the balcony. My freshman and sophomore years (the Vonleh season and the next year) we got two GA tickets and the rest were assigned. I liked that better than having almost all GA tickets. I was fine with standing in line for an hour or two, but I didn't have time to stand in line all day for a good seat. I've known people who waited all day, but still ended up in the balcony due to people holding spots for other people/cutting in line. 

The reason they switched to GA at all was because in the late 2000's when I was in school students were showing up late so the activists students of my generation (I was not one of them who helped make this switch) worked with the athletic department to switch to some GA to address this issue. The year after I graduated they had just the lower GA but by doing that you only had as many GA spots as seats in K, L and M section so instead of empty balconies for non premium games you would have the back third of GA empty sometimes. Than the athletic department on their own decided to combine GA with the balconies to ensure the lower GA is full by tip off for both visual and TV purposes I would assume. I know some feel differently and the current system is far from ideal but I certainly prefer it to my days in school where you would get 1 court, 2 or 3 lower level low down (it was not GA at that point) and 1 or 2 high up games in main level with the rest balcony with all seats pre-assigned. Now with the switch to GA you get like 6-7 GA games, a court game and a couple games higher up in the main level. If you are timely and a big fan you are actually rewarded and normally get good seats which is something that lacked when I was in school. Certainly, current system is not ideal and people can differ how student tickets should be distributed but the current system seems preferable to what they used when I was in school where you just had scattered empties every year (except the Gordon year were people always showed up) in the student section for non premium games and everyone assigned a seat for every game.   

[Old Friend 8,389]

On 1/29/2018 at 7:15 PM, Josh said:

 

Hi!

Not sure if that was for me or not, but it looked friendly.

 

It was and it was.   =)

[Aaron 4,293]

I know its different league different expectations but I could not believe how terrible the Pacers crowd was tonight late in a close game that the Pacers ultimately won. You can blame people for not showing up and for being quiet early in a game at IU but at least in a close game in the last 5 minutes people stand and get into a game and make a lot of noise and make it hard on the opposing team.

You would of thought it was the 1st qtr. when the game was on line in last minute for Pacers tonight. Only maybe half the place stood as Memphis drove for the win and very little noise and that was the only time there was any noise at all in a down to the wire game.

Again I am not comparing IU to an NBA crowd and at times it should be much better for IU but at least it never sinks to the level of pathetic that Pacers had tonight in terms of atmosphere even against cupcakes in November.

By the way I am saying this all as both a huge IU and Pacers fan.

[akinnaird24 517]

I know its different league different expectations but I could not believe how terrible the Pacers crowd was tonight late in a close game that the Pacers ultimately won. You can blame people for not showing up and for being quiet early in a game at IU but at least in a close game in the last 5 minutes people stand and get into a game and make a lot of noise and make it hard on the opposing team.
You would of thought it was the 1st qtr. when the game was on line in last minute for Pacers tonight. Only maybe half the place stood as Memphis drove for the win and very little noise and that was the only time there was any noise at all in a down to the wire game.
Again I am not comparing IU to an NBA crowd and at times it should be much better for IU but at least it never sinks to the level of pathetic that Pacers had tonight in terms of atmosphere even against cupcakes in November.
By the way I am saying this all as both a huge IU and Pacers fan.

I've been to 2 Wednesday night games this season, and the crowd was the same way. Idk what it is

[zsmithey4 224]

9 hours ago, Aaron said:

I know its different league different expectations but I could not believe how terrible the Pacers crowd was tonight late in a close game that the Pacers ultimately won. You can blame people for not showing up and for being quiet early in a game at IU but at least in a close game in the last 5 minutes people stand and get into a game and make a lot of noise and make it hard on the opposing team.

You would of thought it was the 1st qtr. when the game was on line in last minute for Pacers tonight. Only maybe half the place stood as Memphis drove for the win and very little noise and that was the only time there was any noise at all in a down to the wire game.

Again I am not comparing IU to an NBA crowd and at times it should be much better for IU but at least it never sinks to the level of pathetic that Pacers had tonight in terms of atmosphere even against cupcakes in November.

By the way I am saying this all as both a huge IU and Pacers fan.

Coming from a Grizz fan who was at the game last night, I don't blame people for not getting excited against us we suck haha. I had a great time tho Bankers Life is really nice

[Golfman25 5,437]

Students right now suck. Went to minn game.  Nice blow out.  Alumni full.  Students not even close.  3/4 lower level. Balcony empty.  Get to the games.  

Maybe Archie needs to say if the place is packed Tim Priller will start.  :)

[Old Friend 8,389]

On 2/1/2018 at 7:22 AM, akinnaird24 said:

I've been to 2 Wednesday night games this season, and the crowd was the same way. Idk what it is

It's every game is on TV and good seats (lower bowl) cost $125.  The bad seats in that place are really bad.  Worse by far than IU because they're so much further away from the court horizontally.  You're way up AND way out.  Nice to be in the building, but the view of the floor is awful.  Having said that, the numbers are not so bad.  The Pacers have sold 85.6% of their tickets, and total attendance is > 15,547/game.    Expectations were low so season ticket sales were down, and the NBA has always been a bad "walk up" league.   Ironically, the Pacers are 9th in road attendance.  When the playoffs come, that place will be sold out.

I want to be on record as saying again the students need to get to the games at IU, but on TV, the ones who were there tonight sounded more like an IU crowd.  Nice to hear...even if the section wasn't full.  Glass should limit ticket allotment for a season....only give so many games.   We'll be good soon enough...hard lesson learned.