IUBB at Wisconsin - 1/2/18 @ 7:00 E.T.

[JSHoosier 19,913]

12 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Talk about being sick to your stomach. We might have been better off with Alford or Holtman or Coghlan from IPFW.

The thing is......Arizona has been successful with S Miller doing his thing. IU won't allow Archie to do similar stuff. Especially with the heat being turned up on Adidas, and Arizona.

Not sure what recruiting will look like as we go forward. Hope to get the best from Indiana but the 5 stars (not from Doctor families) will be chasing the money trail. Archie will need to learn to compete with what he can get. Crean Conundrum all over again.


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Truth be told, I wanted Holtman more than Miller.  I liked Miller more as time went on, but was never completely sold.  Out of fairness, I wouldn't have been completely sold on Holtman either; I had both of them in a group of coaches I just wanted to see more from.

[Old Friend 8,389]

10 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

I’m surprised you don’t think Happ is that talented. Now projecting him as a pro I agree that he won’t be a good pro but as a college basketball player just from your post history he seems like your type of player. He was a Third team All-American last year as a sophomore and led Wisky in every major category.


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He is absolutely my type of player.   I think he is limited, but fundamentally sound as hell.  He did not beat Indiana with talent. He beat them with footwork, hustle, and strength.   Those things are different than talent.  He is a FAR better basketball player than Davis, but I think Davis is more talented.   Does that make sense?

 

[Stuhoo 79,861]

3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

He is absolutely my type of player.   I think he is limited, but fundamentally sound as hell.  He did not beat Indiana with talent. He beat them with footwork, hustle, and strength.   Those things are different than talent.  He is a FAR better basketball player than Davis, but I think Davis is more talented.   Does that make sense?

 

 

It surely does with talent defined as "natural athletic ability." I tend to define talent as including qualities that are between the ears, and including talents like footwork and skill that are developed.

I think we are saying the same thing...Happ is better at basketball!!   :)

 

[Uspshoosier 45,324]

He is absolutely my type of player.   I think he is limited, but fundamentally sound as hell.  He did not beat Indiana with talent. He beat them with footwork, hustle, and strength.   Those things are different than talent.  He is a FAR better basketball player than Davis, but I think Davis is more talented.   Does that make sense?
 

Definitely make sense. It’s why I love college basketball so much. Players like Happ who work their tail off to get better and don’t get the recognition coming out of high school. He plays to his strengths(although someone got him his ear to start shooting 3 at one point) luckily he stopped and went back to what he does best. Hopefully we will be able to watch kids like happ play for IU down the road instead of getting schooled by kids like happ. As an IU I dislike happ for what he has done against us but as a college basketball fan I love what he represents to his team and sport. I love watching him play against everyone else


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[Bailey7878 2,506]

I am beginning to understand the lack of excitement from the fans.  For years, now, the traditional IU fan has been frustrated.  15 years since our last Final Four appearances, the end of Davis, then the Sampson debacle.  Fans got their spirits lifted with Tom Crean, then it became obvious that Crean would not lead us to the promised land, but it took a while for the Athletic Department to catch on.  

Now most fans thought Miller was going to come in and have an immediate impact on what we saw as flaws in the program.  It seems that immediate is going to take a while...  In this day and age, we all want instant gratification.  If we have to wait 5 seconds vs two for the webpage to display, we immediately think something is wrong with the computer, or the internet.  Most of us have lost the ability for patience.  

I think Archie can get the excitement back, but he has to do something to show the fans that he is doing something (anything) to fix what we perceive as the problems. 

I've been a fan since 1987 and am 44 now. It's like a drip drip. One final four in 24 years tends to make you less excited each year. Even with a new coach it's hard to get excited when the team stinks. Winning is the only thing that will get the fan base pumped again. That's were the program is at and maybe not fair to archie but 25 years of patience gets old.


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[Bailey7878 2,506]

I am beginning to understand the lack of excitement from the fans.  For years, now, the traditional IU fan has been frustrated.  15 years since our last Final Four appearances, the end of Davis, then the Sampson debacle.  Fans got their spirits lifted with Tom Crean, then it became obvious that Crean would not lead us to the promised land, but it took a while for the Athletic Department to catch on.  

Now most fans thought Miller was going to come in and have an immediate impact on what we saw as flaws in the program.  It seems that immediate is going to take a while...  In this day and age, we all want instant gratification.  If we have to wait 5 seconds vs two for the webpage to display, we immediately think something is wrong with the computer, or the internet.  Most of us have lost the ability for patience.  

I think Archie can get the excitement back, but he has to do something to show the fans that he is doing something (anything) to fix what we perceive as the problems. 

I disagree about losing the ability to be patient. Alot of us have been patient for 25 years. I would say the iu fan base is very patient . We sat through three God awful years of crean before we got better. And make no mistake those three years were atrocious.

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[jmsgws 2,181]

I wasn't talking about the patience over the last two decades.  I agree whole heartedly with you there.  

I am talking about the lack of excitement now.  Most of us were not expecting great things this year, but we were thinking that IU would not stink.  We were thinking that Miller would be able to come in and immediately have the team playing hard on every play, and actually playing defense.  

Sure there are examples of coaches coming in and having an immediate impact, but the norm is for at least one season before you start seeing results.  

I am putting myself in the group that has no patience right now.  The last two years I found myself doing something I never would have thought possible.  Actually turning off IU games before they were over.  I would have turned off the Wisconsin game, but I couldn't because I was in the stands.  :)

[HoosierX 1,523]

20 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Disagree with this, too.  Watch Johnson.  He floats.  He doesn't stick his landings.  One example; but that's a thing you can coach a kid away from

You can teach shooting to an extent but it's rare to see poor shooters become prolific ones. It's also difficult to make wholesale changes to shooting form without negative effects.

I was never a great shooter despite a lot of practice. Luckily I was (and still am) 5'9 and white which more than made up for it.

[Aaron 4,268]

I listened to everything Dakich said yesterday and some of what he said is completely blow hard and ratings driven and makes no sense and other things he may be right about and it raises flags. In our world of extremes people tend to be all right or all wrong. I think some of what Dakich said is right and some is beyond ridiculous and needs to be criticized.

Of his main points he compared IU and Butler having first year coaches which is absurd. Butler brought back the same roster from a good team while IU lost 3 players off a bad team and you can't compare the two. He did however, compare IU to Holtman at OSU and to me that is concerning that he is getting a team already to play a lot better that is no more talented.

He also said we need should of hired an IU guy like Alford which is completely insane. You take the best guy available. The only question is did we do that and that's very much up in the air? He also said we were wrong to fire Crean which was about the most insane thing in his entire rant.

He also said the IU fan base is excepting mediocre results which from everything I have seen could not be farther from the truth and is very upset that everything is happening the way it is. A few people may be content but from what I see, but for the most part the fan base is so far from happy right now and has been very critical and not making all these excuses he claims.  

However, the main point he said is that this is the worst coach team he has seen since he coached and he was at a practice and the players were not trying hard and coaches were crossing their hands and not caring. The first part of the point looks certainly true and the second part I have to take him at his word since I have not been at a practice and I doubt he flat out made this up. He may be overstating it to make his point but I have to believe there is at least some truth to this. Assuming this entire point is true (and I am going to assume it is for at least the most part) this to me is the only thing he said that is extremely concerning and makes me question if things will improve.

To sum it all up I think Archie deserves a fair chance and I refuse to judge him until next year when he has his own players, but some of what is going on is concerning moving forward and needs to be discussed. We live in a black and white world where everything is all one way or the other and sometimes the middle ground (including what Dakich said) can be true and I strongly believe that. 

[Bailey7878 2,506]

I wasn't talking about the patience over the last two decades.  I agree whole heartedly with you there.  

I am talking about the lack of excitement now.  Most of us were not expecting great things this year, but we were thinking that IU would not stink.  We were thinking that Miller would be able to come in and immediately have the team playing hard on every play, and actually playing defense.  

Sure there examples of coaches coming in and having an immediate impact, but the norm is for at least one season before you start seeing results.  

I am putting myself in the group that has no patience right now.  The last two years I found myself doing something I never would have thought possible.  Actually turning off IU games before they were over.  I would have turned of the Wisconsin game, but I couldn't because I was in the stands.  :)

I wish I could go back and review posts from September because alot of us thought this team would be alot better and possibly make the ncaa. I do not recall many people thinking they would stink. People are back tracking now but there was a cautious optimism we might do ok. If I'm around and not busy I may watch some games but I'm certainly not going to change my schedule to watch iu this year. I was the same way last year. Its easy to see why people aren't excited this year.

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[JSHoosier 19,913]

45 minutes ago, Aaron said:

I listened to everything Dakich said yesterday and some of what he said is completely blow hard and ratings driven and makes no sense and other things he may be right about and it raises flags. In our world of extremes people tend to be all right or all wrong. I think some of what Dakich said is right and some is beyond ridiculous and needs to be criticized.

Of his main points he compared IU and Butler having first year coaches which is absurd. Butler brought back the same roster from a good team while IU lost 3 players off a bad team and you can't compare the two. He did however, compare IU to Holtman at OSU and to me that is concerning that he is getting a team already to play a lot better that is no more talented.

He also said we need should of hired an IU guy like Alford which is completely insane. You take the best guy available. The only question is did we do that and that's very much up in the air? He also said we were wrong to fire Crean which was about the most insane thing in his entire rant.

He also said the IU fan base is excepting mediocre results which from everything I have seen could not be farther from the truth and is very upset that everything is happening the way it is. A few people may be content but from what I see, but for the most part the fan base is so far from happy right now and has been very critical and not making all these excuses he claims.  

However, the main point he said is that this is the worst coach team he has seen since he coached and he was at a practice and the players were not trying hard and coaches were crossing their hands and not caring. The first part of the point looks certainly true and the second part I have to take him at his word since I have not been at a practice and I doubt he flat out made this up. He may be overstating it to make his point but I have to believe there is at least some truth to this. Assuming this entire point is true (and I am going to assume it is for at least the most part) this to me is the only thing he said that is extremely concerning and makes me question if things will improve.

To sum it all up I think Archie deserves a fair chance and I refuse to judge him until next year when he has his own players, but some of what is going on is concerning moving forward and needs to be discussed. We live in a black and white world where everything is all one way or the other and sometimes the middle ground (including what Dakich said) can be true and I strongly believe that. 

Dakich knows the game, so I don't ignore the things he comments on.  He does like to stir things up and hear himself talk to that has to be factored in.  Usually I don't mind him on commentary.  His comment about being wrong to fire Crean had me shaking my head though, the only thing wrong was that it didn't happen 2 years sooner.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

Dakich knows the game, so I don't ignore the things he comments on.  He does like to stir things up and hear himself talk to that has to be factored in.  Usually I don't mind him on commentary.  His comment about being wrong to fire Crean had me shaking my head though, the only thing wrong was that it didn't happen 2 years sooner.

He was a crean homer and he's bitter we hired miller over Alford. He demanded we hire alford.

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[JSHoosier 19,913]

3 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

He was a crean homer and he's bitter we hired miller over Alford. He demanded we hire alford.

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I wouldn't go that far.  He absolutely had his fair share of times being critical of the product Crean put on the floor.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

I wouldn't go that far.  He absolutely had his fair share of times being critical of the product Crean put on the floor.

Well he did not like the miller hire I know that. He was Alford or bust.

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[jmsgws 2,181]

I don't think Dakich is mad we fired Crean.  I think he is mad that he was fired, and replaced with a mid major coach, with no big time experience. 

Dakich, like many, places no faith in Fred Glass, and I think that is what has him more riled up than anything.  

[Bailey7878 2,506]

I don't think Dakich is mad we fired Crean.  I think he is mad that he was fired, and replaced with a mid major coach, with no big time experience. 

Dakich like many places no faith in Fred Glass, and I think that is what has him more riled up than anything.  

The fact glass had a job after not firing crean two years ago is mind boggling to me.

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[JSHoosier 19,913]

45 minutes ago, jmsgws said:

I don't think Dakich is mad we fired Crean.  I think he is mad that he was fired, and replaced with a mid major coach, with no big time experience. 

Dakich like many places no faith in Fred Glass, and I think that is what has him more riled up than anything.  

I think that's fair on his part.  I wanted to see Miller coach somewhere higher than Dayton first.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

I think that's fair on his part.  I wanted to see Miller coach somewhere higher than Dayton first.

I was just happy to get rid of crean I really did not think about it much when we first hired miller. In hindsight I wish we got somebody who had coached at a higher level. I really hope Archie works out but he is unproven for sure.

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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,061]

I was just happy to get rid of crean I really did not think about it much when we first hired miller. In hindsight I wish we got somebody who had coached at a higher level. I really hope Archie works out but he is unproven for sure.

 

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The Miller way with recruiting works. Sean has demonstrated it year after year. If IU can become Arizona Midwest we would be in good shape.

 

My legitimate fear is what Sean and Arizona are dealing with Indiana won't be able to reach their full recruiting potential.

 

Can Archie win with next tier recruits? We will find out over the next 2 years.

 

 

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[Bailey7878 2,506]

The Miller way with recruiting works. Sean has demonstrated it year after year. If IU can become Arizona Midwest we would be in good shape.
 
My legitimate fear is what Sean and Arizona are dealing with Indiana won't be able to reach their full recruiting potential.
 
Can Archie win with next tier recruits? We will find out over the next 2 years.
 
 
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The sean miller recruiting way has involved cheating to get 5 star players. Arizona is under investigation though I predict they walk away with virtually no punishment so maybe it isn't such a bad route to go. I'm expecting the ncaa will prove once again they are incompetent. If nothing changes I guess we will have to pay up in the future. Not a fan of it but that's how national titles are won.

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