Gray area recruiting

[HoosierAloha]

Wasn't Magette paid? I thought that was pretty apparent?


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[Feathery]

Didn’t a Duke player just get caught with $85k of jewelry a few years ago? Duke isn’t above board. To be honest IU probably played in the grey too. I work with former athletes and have heard stories of cars basketball players would drive, Noah Vonleh is a name I hear from players of other sports that is probably questionable. 

[mdn82]

Didn’t a Duke player just get caught with $85k of jewelry a few years ago? Duke isn’t above board. To be honest IU probably played in the grey too. I work with former athletes and have heard stories of cars basketball players would drive, Noah Vonleh is a name I hear from players of other sports that is probably questionable. 

Yes


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[MikeRoberts]

Would you cheat to get your degree?  Would you cheat on your spouse?  Same principle.

This and your analogy of shooting heroin are so not on the same planet... don't see the comparison one bit


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[MikeRoberts]

So you're willing to compromise other's integrity, and only some of yours.  You didn't answer my question though, if you would cheat personally.  

Would you accept a charge inside the circle, would you accept credit for a blocked shot if you knew you got their hand?

I know the answer to the above and those are just minor infractions that happen all the time that don't always get called.

If you knew the rules but also knew a ref didn't call it, would you take advantage of that to better yourself and your team on the court?

I don't understand this moral high ground and comparing a game to a deadly drug or cheating on your spouse, makes zero sense


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[Uspshoosier]

Would you accept a charge inside the circle, would you accept credit for a blocked shot if you knew you got their hand?

I know the answer to the above and those are just minor infractions that happen all the time that don't always get called.

If you knew the rules but also knew a ref didn't call it, would you take advantage of that to better yourself and your team on the court?

I don't understand this moral high ground and comparing a game to a deadly drug or cheating on your spouse, makes zero sense


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This kid wouldn’t

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[Bailey7878]

Arizona has lost two straight and is currently getting killed by Purdue. I like to see cheaters lose

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[mdn82]

 

 

I don't understand this moral high ground and comparing a game to a deadly drug or cheating on your spouse, makes zero sense

 

 

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Its kind of the equivalent of comparing a federal crime to a minor basketball violation eh?

 

I know what you are trying to say to USPS, but justifying a federal crime because others do it just isn’t right. These are shady people getting involved with these programs. What’s to say they aren’t making bets for or against these programs? Is throwing a game if nobody knows morally wrong? Would that bother anyone as fans of that is happening? I mean if someone gets us a player, maybe they want control of us in a couple of games for return in pay. These are shady individuals I don’t want a part of.

 

 

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[MikeRoberts]

Its kind of the equivalent of comparing a federal crime to a minor basketball violation eh? 
I know what you are trying to say to USPS, but justifying a federal crime because others do it just isn’t right. These are shady people getting involved with these programs. What’s to say they aren’t making bets for or against these programs? Is throwing a game if nobody knows morally wrong? Would that bother anyone as fans of that is happening? I mean if someone gets us a player, maybe they want control of us in a couple of games for return in pay. These are shady individuals I don’t want a part of.
 
 
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I don't like the idea of not following the rules but there are so many variations of acceptance or denial.

Talking about ownership of players sounds like you have watched blue chips a few too many times:)

At the end of the day, rules were made by men, about a game, a game, not a deadly drug, and those same men don't care nor do they have the power to enforce.

The rules have been ignored for so long that it doesn't even feel like cheating to coaches according to some close to the situation.

I also want to point out that cheating happened in the knight years, Davis years, Sampson years, Crean years and likely has already happened in the miller months.

Those that are on their holy high horse has either ignored or has chosen to be ignorant hat IU has cheated for decades. We simply have not done it to the magnitude that others have and it has hurt our ability to win and win big.




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[mdn82]

I don't like the idea of not following the rules but there are so many variations of acceptance or denial.

Talking about ownership of players sounds like you have watched blue chips a few too many times:)

At the end of the day, rules were made by men, about a game, a game, not a deadly drug, and those same men don't care nor do they have the power to enforce.

The rules have been ignored for so long that it doesn't even feel like cheating to coaches according to some close to the situation.

I also want to point out that cheating happened in the knight years, Davis years, Sampson years, Crean years and likely has already happened in the miller months.

Those that are on their holy high horse has either ignored or has chosen to be ignorant hat IU has cheated for decades. We simply have not done it to the magnitude that others have and it has hurt our ability to win and win big.




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Cheating does occur to various degrees, but paying players? That’s too extreme. Not so much Blue Chips more Boston College Point Shaving scandal of 78-79 ;). I am sure modern day people that want to make money have thought of it.


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[MikeRoberts]

Cheating does occur to various degrees, but paying players? That’s too extreme. Not so much Blue Chips more Boston College Point Shaving scandal of 78-79 ;). I am sure modern day people that want to make money have thought of it.


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Of course things like that could happen but it is seemingly few and far between. Maybe I will be proved wrong on that down the road on a future FBI probe but for now, those instances seem rare.

There are a lot of ways to cheat and none of them are ok right, but if you are going to do it, why stop at supplying players with visa gift cards whenever they need money (iu) vs buying their family member a car, House, cash deposit?

Why cross Iine for small stuff for existing players that is inconsequential if taking another step can land you the cream of the crop?


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[mamasa]

Would you accept a charge inside the circle, would you accept credit for a blocked shot if you knew you got their hand?

I know the answer to the above and those are just minor infractions that happen all the time that don't always get called.

If you knew the rules but also knew a ref didn't call it, would you take advantage of that to better yourself and your team on the court?

I don't understand this moral high ground and comparing a game to a deadly drug or cheating on your spouse, makes zero sense


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Cheating is cheating. If you can justify it to yourself, there really is no limit to where it stops. Never played basketball so cannot respond to those questions but, I had a ref overturn a call that a striker was inside the box in an indoor soccer match. I was in keep, guy scored but ref said he was in box. I told ref he wasn't, goal counted. The heroin analogy was meant to be extreme, in the field of "if the elite do it, so should we". Cheating is cheating to me, if you don't understand moral high ground, I cannot help there


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[Bailey7878]

Of course things like that could happen but it is seemingly few and far between. Maybe I will be proved wrong on that down the road on a future FBI probe but for now, those instances seem rare.

There are a lot of ways to cheat and none of them are ok right, but if you are going to do it, why stop at supplying players with visa gift cards whenever they need money (iu) vs buying their family member a car, House, cash deposit?

Why cross Iine for small stuff for existing players that is inconsequential if taking another step can land you the cream of the crop?


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You want to cheat I take it?

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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Villanova maybe


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Jalen Brunson recruitment was dirty. I'd have to look into others. Maybe cleaner than some but seem to be encroaching the gray area more and more every year.

IMO Brunson is a no doubter.


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[mdn82]

Jalen Brunson recruitment was dirty. I'd have to look into others. Maybe cleaner than some but seem to be encroaching the gray area more and more every year.

 

IMO Brunson is a no doubter.

 

 

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What was dirty about this recruitment? Even Illini fans didn’t think it was dirty. He took an OV to Illinois and then Nova. Committed to Nova. His issues with Illinois was Groce job stability and other recruits. Not seeing what you saw in this one and neither did Illini fans.

 

Edit: if we are basing this off of being within 50 miles of Chicago I think we are being reckless with our accusations. Adlai E. Stevenson is one of the top public schools in the country in a fairly well off area. It actually is a Gold Star school that is a top 200 public school in the country. It’s not a poverty area. Median income in that area is over $100k. I think our cynicism is running a little rampant these days. AAU and recruiting in general is dirty. But it isn’t quite the Wild West you guys are making it out to be. There are obvious situations each year that are dirty. Those aren’t the norm. It is a very small percentage. Some kids actually go through the process and look out what’s best for them. Both good and bad recruits (who I hope we are in on). Then there are those that make it blatantly obvious earlier on they know their going rate (who I hope we aren’t on).

 

 

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[Ajwhitis]

29 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

What was dirty about this recruitment? Even Illini fans didn’t think it was dirty. He took an OV to Illinois and then Nova. Committed to Nova. His issues with Illinois was Groce job stability and other recruits. Not seeing what you saw in this one and neither did Illini fans.

 

Edit: if we are basing this off of being within 50 miles of Chicago I think we are being reckless with our accusations. Adlai E. Stevenson is one of the top public schools in the country in a fairly well off area. It actually is a Gold Star school that is a top 200 public school in the country. It’s not a poverty area. Median income in that area is over $100k. I think our cynicism is running a little rampant these days. AAU and recruiting in general is dirty. But it isn’t quite the Wild West you guys are making it out to be. There are obvious situations each year that are dirty. Those aren’t the norm. It is a very small percentage. Some kids actually go through the process and look out what’s best for them. Both good and bad recruits (who I hope we are in on). Then there are those that make it blatantly obvious earlier on they know their going rate (who I hope we aren’t on).

 

 

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Yeah being from the same county, and playing against that school in high school, I can say it's the biggest school in the state and where Jalen is from specifically is one of the wealthiest areas in Illinois. He also went to the same high school as Justin Smith and he was a beast in high school.

[Feathery]

7 hours ago, mamasa said:

Cheating is cheating. If you can justify it to yourself, there really is no limit to where it stops. Never played basketball so cannot respond to those questions but, I had a ref overturn a call that a striker was inside the box in an indoor soccer match. I was in keep, guy scored but ref said he was in box. I told ref he wasn't, goal counted. The heroin analogy was meant to be extreme, in the field of "if the elite do it, so should we". Cheating is cheating to me, if you don't understand moral high ground, I cannot help there


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Then why do you pull for IU basketball? IU has cheated and probably will continue to cheat in basketball. I think the overall point is, we have no moral high ground to stand on. IU is just cleaner than Duke, UNC, UK, KU, and Arizona  

If cheating is cheating, like you said, then a minor rule break is the same as FedEx boxes of cash (UK). How do you feel about Vonleh rolling around Bloomington in a new expensive car? What about players getting visa gift cards for spending money? These are the rumors about our program. Just like duffel bags of cash to UK recruits, funneled through NBA agents are rumored about Calipari.

If cheating is cheating, then are you worried about Archie? His brother is caught up in this Adidas/FBI scandal. Archie was an assistant under his brother and it would be naive to think he doesn’t or didn’t know how the recruiting game was being played. If he didn’t tell on his brother to the NCAA, wouldn’t that be cheating? You told the ref in your indoor soccer game that the goal was actually good, because if you didn’t that’s cheating.

You must also not want Romeo Langford. The rumors for years is that he will only go to an Adidas school. After all this Adidas/FBI scandal, you should be hesitant to get into a possible gray area with him. 

This post isn’t meant as an attack on you. Just trying to point out that as an IU fan, we should be careful with the moral high ground. Those in glass houses, shouldn’t throw rocks. 

Utlimately, I think changes need to be made to help clean up recruiting. I’ve got a lot of ideas for this but that’s for a different thread. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Re: Brunson

To me, the fact that Rick was going to turn his son's recruitment into a chance for an assistant coaching gig tells me to be on high alert. I know it is his dads alma mater but realistically Temple was never going to be very good. Whenever recruitments involved fathers looking for coaching gigs and leaving the home area, it enters the gray area to me.


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[MikeRoberts]

You want to cheat I take it?

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We already are and have been for decades, the question, how far do we take it?


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[hoosierpap]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Re: Brunson

To me, the fact that Rick was going to turn his son's recruitment into a chance for an assistant coaching gig tells me to be on high alert. I know it is his dads alma mater but realistically Temple was never going to be very good. Whenever recruitments involved fathers looking for coaching gigs and leaving the home area, it enters the gray area to me.


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1

This is a slightly wild accusation which ran rampant at the time also. This doesn't account for the fact that Rick Brunson was fully qualified for this job. And people irresponsibly compared this to an issue going on with Skal Labissiere and his "guardian." That was happening at the time, but there are so many that this one has been lumped into. I just hate when there is no nuance or context to these discussions and we just accuse the recruitment of being dirty or "gray."

Rick Brunson was a Temple alum, inducted into their HOF, assistant coach with 3 NBA franchises, Director of Basketball Operations at UVA- qualified for the position. Also, father of a top prospect. To me, if this was IU and they DIDN'T use that connection for a qualified open assistant position I'd be leading the protest with my pitchfork. "Turn his son's recruitment into a chance for an assistant coaching gig" is just off, and frankly, cynical and tells me a bit of where you're at with CBB.

Also, important to note that Jalen grew up in Cherry Hill, NJ, which is directly over the bridge to Philadelphia. He spent his days at what was then the Wachovia Center watching his Dad, as the towel boy, and actually, after he was cut by the Sixers, he stayed in Cherry Hill while Rick bounced around the league. Also, Jalen's Mom is a Temple alum and is where his Dad and Mom meant. I mean, there are tons of reasons why Temple was in this...

Rick was accused of sexual abuse of a massage therapist and his name was, and had to be, removed from consideration at the time. He has since been acquitted on all charges but about a year and a half later. Anyways, not sure I can see a kid walking into a situation at Temple with all that going on (offered job, retracted job, Dad accused, etc)

Point being, Jalen clearly has a draw to this area as he still chose a school in the area. Don't think you accused Jay Wright of being dirty, but to anyone who thinks this one was dirty...no. And I guess I have no problem with IU hiring Damon Bailey, who has coaching experience, if Brayton Bailey is good enough. Recruiting is all about connections, in every way.