Game Thread: Howard, Sunday 8pm BTN

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

3 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

Howard threw up some ridiculous stuff at the rim that went in. 

The free throw shooting was abominable and even more cringeworthy in person than it was on TV I am sure. 

This is a bad team. Not much more to say about it than that. Archie can only do so much. Fixing his team's awful FT shooting would be a start.

I don't believe it's a bad team. I think it's a team that still has a lot to learn and unlearn with how CAM wants offense and defense to be played. I think our growth could be huge as the light goes on for each player. 

[mamasa 15,317]

Archie didn't sound too upset in post-game.  Mentioned toughness again, didn't speculate too much on Juwan.  Said he's not going to tell Newkirk not to shoot

[JHoosier914 1,187]

1 minute ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

I don't believe it's a bad team. I think it's a team that still has a lot to learn and unlearn with how CAM wants offense and defense to be played. I think our growth could be huge as the light goes on for each player. 

Agreed.  Miller's rotation will shrink based upon those that are doing what he wants and doing it well.  I know he basically played 9 players today not counting Morgan, but I see it closer to 8 (barring foul trouble) once he gets halfway through the season.

[mamasa 15,317]

Also saw Davis had 0 fouls.  Big plus for his playing time (and with his weight loss and better conditioning, he can actually stay in extra minutes)

[JHoosier914 1,187]

4 minutes ago, mamasa said:

Also saw Davis had 0 fouls.  Big plus for his playing time (and with his weight loss and better conditioning, he can actually stay in extra minutes)

This cannot be understated.  0 fouls is huge.  AND he played 29 minutes.  Hopefully he can reciprocate that against Delgado or else we will have our work cut out for us down low.

[rcbowla 7,125]

- I appreciate seeing consistency within a system. Not necessarily consistent execution but at least there seems to be a "system" that AM is trying to instill. Nice to see compared to previous 20 years

-DD was awesome in some ways and not so awesome in some ways. Needs to get more than 6 rebounds in 29 minutes and for the love of everything make your FT's

-Al and Justin showed some real signs of possibly being serious contributors this year and moving forward. Really liked how Smith played "big". We will need that from him consistently this season

-I personally thought Rojo played decent tonight and actually showed some leadership qualities. I realize many won't agree but I feel ok about him moving forward.

-Juwan getting hurt sucks but he is kind of injury prone at this point. Good news is he's tough as balls so may see him back soon

-Newkirk didn't shoot well but I still think he will be big for us this year and caution people wanting to dump him... again......he did have 7 assists and just 1 to

-Green and Cujo? No seriously I have no clue what is wrong with these guys or if they'll ever really develop into what we had hoped. Green has a better chance but so far they aren't looking good.

Overall everything is fine and will be fine. People need to relax and give these guys time to figure everything out

[JHoosier914 1,187]

1 minute ago, rcsalway29 said:

- I appreciate seeing consistency within a system. Not necessarily consistent execution but at least there seems to be a "system" that AM is trying to instill. Nice to see compared to previous 20 years

-DD was awesome in some ways and not so awesome in some ways. Needs to get more than 6 rebounds in 29 minutes and for the love of everything make your FT's

-Al and Justin showed some real signs of possibly being serious contributors this year and moving forward. Really liked how Smith played "big". We will need that from him consistently this season

-I personally thought Rojo played decent tonight and actually showed some leadership qualities. I realize many won't agree but I feel ok about him moving forward.

-Juwan getting hurt sucks but he is kind of injury prone at this point. Good news is he's tough as balls so may see him back soon

-Newkirk didn't shoot well but I still think he will be big for us this year and caution people wanting to dump him... again......he did have 7 assists and just 1 to

-Green and Cujo? No seriously I have no clue what is wrong with these guys or if they'll ever really develop into what we had hoped. Green has a better chance but so far they aren't looking good.

Overall everything is fine and will be fine. People need to relax and give these guys time to figure everything out

I like this analysis...I'd like to add my own opinion without too much gin taking over :)

1)  I hope EVERYONE runs and is forced to make 50+ free throws tomorrow at practice.  That was EMBARRASSING and if not fixed could be the reason we lose several games we should win this year...

2)  I'm personally hoping that the CuJo/Green issue is based mostly on not really developing under Crean last year coupled with still trying to learn CAM's system.  They are both far too talented to be on the court while under-producing while we could be utilizing and teaching the freshman with game-time experience.

3)  I want less of Newkirk.  He had some nice games last year but I am a fan of developing your future rather than playing and underwhelming senior.

4)  RoJo impressed me tonight when I compare him to the other 3 games I've watched this season.  And we need to be celebrating the fact that he's 1 point shy of the 1,000 point club at IU.  Would be IU's 51st in over 100 years of ball.

[BGleas 7,903]

I think you’re being too hard on Green. He had some maturity issues in dealing with fouls and getting yanked, but he also is our best post passer by far (he got the ball to DD a ton), and he brings some speed and athleticism at the guard spot that we really lack with Newkirk and RoJo. 

I think that with experience and maturity he maybe should be the lead guard. Definitely has to clean some things up though. 

[JHoosier914 1,187]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I think you’re being too hard on Green. He had some maturity issues in dealing with fouls and getting yanked, but he also is our best post passer by far (he got the ball to DD a ton), and he brings some speed and athleticism at the guard spot that we really lack with Newkirk and RoJo. 

I think that with experience and maturity he maybe should be the lead guard. Definitely has to clean some things up though. 

The ONLY negative side I see to Green besides his temper is that he seems to want to be "the man."  I'm not sure he will ever be that at Indiana..  Could honestly see him transferring to be the man at a smaller school, though, as much as I hate to say it.

[BGleas 7,903]

2 minutes ago, JHoosier914 said:

The ONLY negative side I see to Green besides his temper is that he seems to want to be "the man."  I'm not sure he will ever be that at Indiana..  Could honestly see him transferring to be the man at a smaller school, though, as much as I hate to say it.

I think that’s a good thing, at least with the current roster. I don’t see anyone else trying to take control and lead. 

[Sota Hoosier 450]

Watched CAM’s post-game comments. He could not be more opposite of Crean and I️ like it. No BS and gives direct, logical answers. Also looked like he was trying to hide how pissed he actually was and is after these first two games. These players’ mental toughness will be tested big time under CAM in ways that Crean never came close to realizing.


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[JHoosier914 1,187]

Just now, BGleas said:

I think that’s a good thing, at least with the current roster. I don’t see anyone else trying to take control and lead. 

Current roster--true.  But he's too inconsistent and I could see that has being a huge negative.  If a junior Green tries to be "the man" next year (of course, depending on personnel with the possibility of some 5 stars that we might land), that might not sit well.  To those, he NEEDS to take a back seat.  Of course, now I'm talking hypothetically.  But without considering the '18 class, I don't see Green as the man next year assuming we have DD, JS and AL.

[JHoosier914 1,187]

Just now, Sota Hoosier said:

Watched CAM’s post-game comments. He could not be more opposite of Crean and I️ like it. No BS and gives direct, logical answers. Also looked like he was trying to hide how pissed he actually was and is after these first two games. These players’ mental toughness will be tested big time under CAM in ways that Crean never came close to realizing.


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Ahh, the reason why we hired the best coach we could've.  I was torn between wanting him or Marshall with a slight edge to Marshall.  Glad they went with CAM.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

I think that’s a good thing, at least with the current roster. I don’t see anyone else trying to take control and lead. 

I have to agree. Someone has to step up and make something happen --no fear! If that is Devonte or Al --so be it!


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[BGleas 7,903]

4 minutes ago, JHoosier914 said:

Current roster--true.  But he's too inconsistent and I could see that has being a huge negative.  If a junior Green tries to be "the man" next year (of course, depending on personnel with the possibility of some 5 stars that we might land), that might not sit well.  To those, he NEEDS to take a back seat.  Of course, now I'm talking hypothetically.  But without considering the '18 class, I don't see Green as the man next year assuming we have DD, JS and AL.

I’m not really following what you mean by “being the man”? He took one bad shot and had one bad turnover, otherwise his biggest issue tonight was foul trouble. He the best post passer on the team, he’s our most athletic and explosive guard, and often looks to pass on the drive. 

Hes a sophomore who didn’t play much as a freshmen, he just needs experience. I think with some maturity and experience, he’s our best guard. I’m not sure if you’re trying to say he’s selfish, but I don’t see that. 

[zsmithey4 224]

One thing with Devonte is that he seems to be much more aggressive than Newkirk or Johnson. He is great at feeding the post but sometimes it feels like he is doing to much with his passes. There were a few tonight and friday that if he just threw a chest pass we would've had a wide open shot but instead he tried to throw some flashy bounce passes

[JHoosier914 1,187]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I’m not really following what you mean by “being the man”? He took one bad shot and had one bad turnover, otherwise his biggest issue tonight was foul trouble. He the best post passer on the team, he’s our most athletic and explosive guard, and often looks to pass on the drive. 

Hes a sophomore who didn’t play much as a freshmen, he just needs experience. I think with some maturity and experience, he’s our best guard. I’m not sure if you’re trying to say he’s selfish, but I don’t see that. 

I'm thinking collectively as I've watched the four games.  I've felt like he tries to do too much.  He scores all seven of his points right out of the gate, and then I just felt like he was forcing things.  Yes, I liked how he was intentionally trying to get the ball to Davis, but it wasn't like he was the sole guard trying to do that--clearly an emphasis.  I fully agree that he is our most explosive and athletic guard, but without careful guidance, that doesn't always develop into a consistent, productive member.  With the right maturing and experience, yes he could be VERY valuable.  I guess I see more to gain from developing other guards than Green.  Just my opinion and I hope you don't feel like I'm basing yours for being different.

[JHoosier914 1,187]

3 minutes ago, zsmithey4 said:

One thing with Devonte is that he seems to be much more aggressive than Newkirk or Johnson. He is great at feeding the post but sometimes it feels like he is doing to much with his passes. There were a few tonight and friday that if he just threw a chest pass we would've had a wide open shot but instead he tried to throw some flashy bounce passes

This.

[bleedhoosier 3,627]

Loving Smith and Durham getting 27 and 30 mins. Like someone else said, they are easily moldable. Justin Smith.. he's lost right now. Definitely going to need a year. He is WAY behind in his movements, at THIS level. Huge upside coming with him though.

Pretty good game by Rojo. Settling in again hopefully.

And Davis.. feed that big dog and let him eat! He's not athletic at all but makes up for it in patience.

And u know what, I like Freddie this year. Operates exactly like he is supposed to.

Yea.. weird night for free throws. I really wouldn't worry about it guys (along with Green )

hate to say it but we're not gonna see a whole lot of Cujo this year. He's still way too weak at this level. Durham and Smith are going to eat all of his mins. We will see Cujo when there is foul trouble and that's about it, I'm afraid.

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[BGleas 7,903]

4 minutes ago, JHoosier914 said:

I'm thinking collectively as I've watched the four games.  I've felt like he tries to do too much.  He scores all seven of his points right out of the gate, and then I just felt like he was forcing things.  Yes, I liked how he was intentionally trying to get the ball to Davis, but it wasn't like he was the sole guard trying to do that--clearly an emphasis.  I fully agree that he is our most explosive and athletic guard, but without careful guidance, that doesn't always develop into a consistent, productive member.  With the right maturing and experience, yes he could be VERY valuable.  I guess I see more to gain from developing other guards than Green.  Just my opinion and I hope you don't feel like I'm basing yours for being different.

No bashing, it’s  a good discussion. 

Im curious who you would rather develop? By develop, I’m assuming you mean the underclassmen guards? So it’s between Green, CuJo and Al. There’s certainly room for two of those three to play big minutes, along with RoJo and Newkirk. Out of the guards I think CuJo is clearly the odd man out, I also really like Al, but don’t think he’s a point guard at all. 

We can certainly agree to disagree, but if I’m Archie of the current guards I’m probably investing the most time in Green. IMO he’s got the highest ceiling. 

With that said, this team desperately needs an upgrade at guard. Our guards are not good as a group.