Indiana @ Penn State Official Game Thread 9/30 - 330 on BTN

[Old Friend 8,389]

Just now, TXHoosierDaddy said:

It's more than one game man. It basically was all of last year. He was irrelevant against UVA so there really wasn't much to say. 

First of all, we're talking about Indiana football.  We root for a team that has been a bottom feeder for a century.  That comes with some baggage, including some sketchy players sometimes.  Secondly, Wilson had to go get a QB last season because there was nobody on the roster who was good enough to lead the offense, including Diamont, and I still say Ramsey is today's version.  Some said Ramsey was a far better thrower than Diamont, and Diamont couldn't throw the ball down field.  I posted a video showing he could, the argument changed.   That QB was Lagow, and for all of his negatives, he was 2nd in the Big Ten in passing yards and 2nd in yards per attempt.    Those are facts.

I fail to understand the lack of acknowledgement of his positives in favor of b*tching about his negatives.  Indiana got to a bowl in back to back seasons with a QB who had been on campus 5 months.   Is he a great QB?  No.  Is Ramsey?  No.  Lagow has a skill set Ramsey doesn't have and vice versa. Neither of them are "the guy."  We don't have "the guy."   Lagow is far from perfect and far from efficient some games.   I think you're painting a picture that doesn't account for all factors; and I still say we will need them both.  

[Old Friend 8,389]

3 minutes ago, Crimson and Cream said:

That was Ramsey's first INT of the season. Plain and simple, he takes care of the ball better than our 5th year senior. Why do you think Ramsey gets the majority of the reps? Nobody's saying Ramsey is some savior. He's just a better option than Lagow. 

It depends on who we're playing, and what package we use.  Lagow is not a true 5th year senior, and you know that.  He was in JUCO for a reason

[mdn82 25,510]

 How exactly are we "better off" with Ramsey?

. He gives us the RPO which in college you have to have. Our offense is not set up for a pocket passer. There was one play on particular that was a 3rd down scramble that was a good pass but dropped. If that was Lagow it was a sack, incompletion, or interception. Yes Lagow has a stronger arm but it means little when you never have a clue where the ball is going. He needs to take a little off and become more accurate. He is what he is. I don't feel in this offense it is more beneficial for him to be out there.



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[Crimson and Cream 5,832]

Just now, Old Friend said:

It depends on who we're playing, and what package we use.  Lagow is not a true 5th year senior, and you know that.  He was in JUCO for a reason

He's been to 4 colleges in 5 years and never figured out how to take care of the football. Again, he's been replaced by Ramsey (who has limitations of his own) for a reason. He's just not very good.

[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

2 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

First of all, we're talking about Indiana football.  We root for a team that has been a bottom feeder for a century.  That comes with some baggage, including some sketchy players sometimes.  Secondly, Wilson had to go get a QB last season because there was nobody on the roster who was good enough to lead the offense, including Diamont, and I still say Ramsey is today's version.  Some said Ramsey was a far better thrower than Diamont, and Diamont couldn't throw the ball down field.  I posted a video showing he could, the argument changed.   That QB was Lagow, and for all of his negatives, he was 2nd in the Big Ten in passing yards and 2nd in yards per attempt.    Those are facts.

I fail to understand the lack of acknowledgement of his positives in favor of b*tching about his negatives.  Indiana got to a bowl in back to back seasons with a QB who had been on campus 5 months.   Is he a great QB?  No.  Is Ramsey?  No.  Lagow has a skill set Ramsey doesn't have and vice versa. Neither of them are "the guy."  We don't have "the guy."   Lagow is far from perfect and far from efficient some games.   I think you're painting a picture that doesn't account for all factors; and I still say we will need them both.  

I'm not saying kick Lagow to the curb but at this point I don't think Lagow brings anything to the table that is really going to help this team score more points. They have different strengths but I am not sure that even helps at this point. I think they just need to stick with one guy. How many times has the QB rotation really worked for a team? I don't think Ramsey is anywhere near a good passer but at least he has the build. Diamont was paper thin and couldn't play 11-12 games. Lets go with Ramsey and see what happens. 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

The goal posts are right here. Nah, kidding. They're over here. Pin the tail on the, moving, JA.


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[GnarlyTimGarl 1,433]

A few thoughts... and this one's even longer than my normal posts because I have a lot to say, so beware because I am about to write a book...

- Turnovers... Indiana 4, Penn State 1. You can talk all you want to about Lagow or Ramsey or Barkley or McSorely or whoever the poo you wanna talk about. You can't go on the road at the #4 team and compete with a -3 TO differential. That was the story of THIS game. We needed those numbers to flip in our favor to have a chance. They didn't so we lose by 31. That's how football works. The good news? Those TOs can be remedied.

- Special teams were poop today. Gave up two scores. They were an absolute detriment to the team this game. Punting wasn't good. Absolutely nothing in the return game. The roughing the kicker penalty just killed us. A definite step back from the past two games in this regard. This unit is MUCH better than what they showed today. Kudos to Crawford on the FG block, though. That deserves mentioning.

- Lagow was off today. And when he's off... he's just off. I don't recall ever watching him course-correct within a game (maybe Michigan State last year?) But he was missing his receivers straight-up. And you can't blame the O-Line today because they were giving him enough time. He is who he is at this point. He can look pretty good, but he can look equally poor. Today he was poor and he was rightfully yanked.

- Folks, I like Ramsey. But he's limited right now. Can he throw downfield? I still don't know because he didn't do it much. The INT was plain bad. It's obvious the coaches still have reservations with his downfield throws. He threw 17 passes for only 78 yards. That's just not effective. If we're going to continue to look Ramsey's way, we're gonna need to expand his playbook. Defenses have mostly figured out his RPOs and we're stuck dinking and dunking down the field, with mixed results at-best. Yes, he can make some plays with his feet. But those plays are 5-10 yarders. Not your "big play" variety. We're gonna have to find a way to spread the field better with him. Wouldn't be surprised to see some new wrinkles against Michigan in a couple of weeks.

- Ellison is our best RB if we're trying to actually run the ball and gain yards. But we need him to hold on to the ball. He's fumbled twice in 53 carries this year. He also needs to stay healthy. I'm guessing that's why his PT dwindled later in this game? The dude has been knocked out a bunch in the last two weeks. Still, he's very much in the mold of Jordan Howard. If we can keep him healthy, he's gonna be a good one.

- Outside of Ellison? Hard to say because he looks SO much better than the other RBs. I will say that I have always loved Gest's burst. I'm guessing there are concerns with his pass protection? I honestly don't know. But he runs hard. I'd give him a shot after Ellison. But Williams, Brookins, Rodriguez, Majette, etc.? They're not producing at near the rate we need them to produce. And they've had opportunities.

- What happened to our WRs? Where's Timian? Did Hale even play? That dude looked great against OSU. They have to keep getting open, particularly for Ramsey. Not near the strength as I had hoped they would be in this game.

- Kudos to our defense. They kept it from being embarrassing. I'm very proud of this unit, especially considering we were without a couple of key players. Still leaps and bounds better than than most of our defenses from 1997-2015. Tegray had 11 tackles and 3 sacks. Covington had 8 and 2. The D-Line got a solid push. 11 total tackles for loss. Great effort.

- I'm not going to mistake Tom Allen for Tom Osborne, but give the man some credit for his defensive game plan. Held Barkley in check for the second year in a row. Got some pressure on McSorely. Motivated the guys to make it a game going into halftime when it just as easily could have been 42-0. He was fighting for his team today. And I have a feeling he's gonna be chewin' a few guys out in practice this week. There's only so much the man can do in-game when a player fumbles the ball other than bench him.

- There were a couple of baloney no-calls by the officiating team today. Would it have made a difference? Probably not, but I don't know how many times I have seen the officials mail it in once we get behind against a blue-blood. Good for Tom Allen to keep fighting for his team.

- James Franklin had his starters in and was throwing deep passes and running trick plays up 24 points with 5:00 left in the game. I understand football and style points and the playoff. The drive-by national media will just gush about Barkley and the final score and no one will pay attention from a national perspective. But I also know that what goes around usually comes around. I'll tell you this... Tom Allen won't forget it. Next year's game at Memorial Stadium will be interesting.

- Look at your team stats. Total Yards: Penn State 370, Indiana 352. Held them to 39 yards rushing. 39. Only 2 penalties a piece for each team. You hold on to the stinking football and we're right there in the ball game.

- All that said, we played at #4 Penn State. Not really a good indicator of where we are at as a team. Still only game #4 of the season. However, I do expect an inspired effort against Michigan in two weeks. We're certainly good enough to give them a game at home.

[LIHoosier 26,308]

13 hours ago, GnarlyTimGarl said:

- James Franklin had his starters in and was throwing deep passes and running trick plays up 24 points with 5:00 left in the game. I understand football and style points and the playoff. The drive-by national media will just gush about Barkley and the final score and no one will pay attention from a national perspective. But I also know that what goes around usually comes around. I'll tell you this... Tom Allen won't forget it. Next year's game at Memorial Stadium will be interesting.

That joke of icing the kicker at a nothing school up 50-0 just to get the 'backup block unit'(???) 2 weeks ago and actions like today are gonna bite him; whether the likes of O$U/Michigan embarrass them or the worst scenario, a team or rogue player goes after a starter cuz they're tired of being shown up. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,197]

. He gives us the RPO which in college you have to have. Our offense is not set up for a pocket passer. There was one play on particular that was a 3rd down scramble that was a good pass but dropped. If that was Lagow it was a sack, incompletion, or interception. Yes Lagow has a stronger arm but it means little when you never have a clue where the ball is going. He needs to take a little off and become more accurate. He is what he is. I don't feel in this offense it is more beneficial for him to be out there.



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Just so we're clear... Ramsey playing doesn't mean we can only run a RPO then. Or are you saying a run pass option.. not the actual type of play that every single college team runs right now? Just wanted to be clear. Because Lagow is better suited for an RPO.

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[Old Friend 8,389]

2 hours ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

I'm not saying kick Lagow to the curb but at this point I don't think Lagow brings anything to the table that is really going to help this team score more points. They have different strengths but I am not sure that even helps at this point. I think they just need to stick with one guy. How many times has the QB rotation really worked for a team? I don't think Ramsey is anywhere near a good passer but at least he has the build. Diamont was paper thin and couldn't play 11-12 games. Lets go with Ramsey and see what happens. 

I think that takes away half our playbook and limits a few of the weapons we have.  We play him full time, defenses can easily game plan with press coverage because Ramsey can't throw the ball down the field yet (surely you can agree he isn't asked to make the same throws Lagow is, right?), stack the box to take away the read option; and really limit what Indiana can do offensively.  Lagow at least gives them other options.

We don't have a QB who will benefit the team by taking all the snaps.  This team has a chance to win 6-8 games; and I am not in the "see what happens" crowd.  I want to make the best of this season with what we have; and that means doing so with two limited quarterbacks. Ramsey is a freshman.  He will develop and I do like his potential.  I don't happen to think he's ready or able to be the full time guy.   He led an offense that scored 7 points today, and completed less than 50% of his passes; averaging 4.6 yards per attempt.   That doesn't scream "give him the job" to me.  I'm not advocating Lagow as a full timer either; and my original point (since you brought it up earlier) was only defending his performance against OSU.  I thought it was far better than you did.

[mdn82 25,510]

Just so we're clear... Ramsey playing doesn't mean we can only run a RPO then. Or are you saying a run pass option.. not the actual type of play that every single college team runs right now? Just wanted to be clear. Because Lagow is better suited for an RPO.

 

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No, I am saying a Run or Pass option similar to what we saw today. If his first read wasn't there he hit a lane and got positive yards. I should have been clearer. Not a RPO with the RB.

 

Edit: I wouldn't mind seeing an option run with him either but that is a discussion for another time.

 

 

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[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,197]

No, I am saying a Run or Pass option similar to what we saw today. If his first read wasn't there he hit a lane and got positive yards. I should have been clearer. Not a RPO with the RB.


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Gotcha. He is certainly decisive. I would prefer to keep playing them both.

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[mdn82 25,510]

Gotcha. He is certainly decisive. I would prefer to keep playing them both.

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The problem is for me with Lagow what does he currently bring to the table consistently that improves our chances to win? I like his arm strength, but I feel he is in his own head now. He just isn't stepping into throws with confidence. He can't extend plays. He isn't getting rid of the ball quickly. I don't see them practice all week, so I trust what the coaches see more. Just from game tape I would like to see a full week of gameplan to go into one QB and see where it takes us.


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[Stuhoo 81,217]

In my opinion, the sole reason that Ramsey is a far better choice than Lagow is because

Lagow...

...

...

...

Stinks

 

No field vision. No touch. Mediocre accuracy. No mobility. Poor decision making.

He is not good. At all.

 

 

 

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[Brass Cannon 24,862]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

In my opinion, the sole reason that Ramsey is a far better choice than Lagow is because

Lagow...

...

...

...

Stinks

 

 

 

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Hmm might be too technical. Can you simplify that a bit

[Stuhoo 81,217]

Hmm might be too technical. Can you simplify that a bit

 

Yes!

Lagow=stinky QB

 

How can I be so sure? To quote Hoosier Guy:

"I'll trust my source and that's me."

 

 

 

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[JSHoosier 20,302]

We can't turn the ball over 4 times and expect to beat teams like this.

The offense needs to sustain drives so the defense can get some rest on the sidelines.  The D stays on the field too long and gets worn out.  The D could also stand to create a few more turnovers.  And for the love of all that is good can the DBs start turning the heads to locate the ball?

To the above point about sustaining drives, the OL still needs to improve.  Opening better holes and creating more manageable down/distance would help to string together first downs.

Special teams...................

Now the QB position.  I'm in full agreement that right now neither option is a particularly good one.  Ramsey isn't much passer, and Lagow is what he is and what he is sucks.  The only thing Lagow brings over Ramsey is the occasional down field throw, and 'occasional' is the operative word because he can't even do that with any reliability; for every NFL caliber pass there are multiple "what the hell was that" passes.  Like I said, he sucks.  He sucked last year and he sucks again this year; at least last year he was good for maybe 2 drives a game instead of needing pulled a couple of drives in.  His OSU game doesn't make up for all the times he's been terrible.  At least Ramsey brings potential.

[Alford Bailey 12,393]

Eh, no surprises here. Got our butts beat. The bigger frustration for me is PSU had their program dismantled and are now back to being top 5 team. Meanwhile, we cant even get to an ocassional 8-9 win season.

[Alford Bailey 12,393]

I agree our QB situation leaves a lot to be desired.

[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

Ramsey named starting QB this week. Huge turning point I would say in the direction things are headed when your senior QB is second now on depth chart.

Also, Riggins and Ball likely out this week. Hopefully, back during Michigan. Everyone else expects to play.