Welcome Coach Miller

[HinnyHoosier 4,793]

It was alluded that one of their "sources" was Buckner. Take that FWIW.

That would definitely give me more confidence in them, but no way to know. Oh well. Helps with the daydreaming at work.


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[coonhounds 8,787]

I hope 247 guys are as connected as they say but i think it is overblown. If billy wants to be at iu i think we will get him but i doubt glass and Buckner are telling anyone anything.

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[Bowhunter 2,693]

So now that the national media has caught on to the Billy Donovan rumors, does this mean OKC manager would know about this? Would think a Lot would have to be worked out on their side as well

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[nighttrain47424 38]

 

The Future was predicted 30 years ago today, is this a coincidence? I think not

 

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[IUHAHN81 2,176]

I just keep saying there is no way Fred doesn't have his guy already.  It's just timing now.  Said it before as have other posters, Fred doesn't fire his "buddy" Crean without a plan in place.  It's just all timing.

[VeevlandBrowns 134]

Some thoughts on the state of IU hoops  

+ Fred Glass is out of his mind. A nice guy who runs a clean program but if you've ever listened to him talk and look at how he's run this program, he looks like a high school athletic director and not a college athletic director. I did get to hear to his press conference the other day. The problem that the next guy is going to have is Glass is out pandering to the alumni and fanbase and I understand why because IU is pretty desperate and just made a change but he's out there basically saying IU should win 100 national titles every year. Pick your favorite NBA coach and he wouldn't be able to live up to that. I'm wondering if he's actually contaminating the actual search process by the way that he's talking. I don't know if you saw that but that was my first take. He sounds like Josh Whitman at Illinois. Again, they're both out of their minds. The hyperbole used in that press conference is a joke. I've never thought he was the right guy for the job and he could be tainting the search a bit. I love the fanbase and the passion but there are some people who think IU can outbid the Celtics and Thunder for an NBA coach which are the top 2. That said, one of the key guys in the search is Marshall and he's kind of crazy himself. 

+ Characteristics of the next coach. First, I don't want to see IU ever give up 95 points again. People want a tactician more than a used car salesman. People want someone fiery. I'm not all about the rah rah guy screaming on the sideline. I want a guy that knows how to coach moreso than anything else.

+ My expectations both short term and long term. First, you should make the tournament every year. So if you're in the tournament every year, that's good. That's the first expectation. You need that punchers chance every year and there's no reason we shouldn't do that. Second, you should be in the top 1/3 of the league every year which would succeed in getting you into the tournament. That's the first hurdle and then I think every 2-4 years you make a deeper run into the tournament and move on. That should be the next hurdle. Bottom line, you gotta get in and win your first couple games to start. 

+ Candidate list I've got and some tiering of it and my philosophies behind it. 
 

**Tier 1: The delusional reaches: Stevens and Donovan. Both of those are long shots. 

**Tier 2: Alford is interesting. He's 52, he's bounced around a lot, his son is graduating, Lonzo is going pro and if you look around Lavar Ball is insane by all accounts and the brothers that are coming through there are not nearly as good. He's got some good players like Leaf who won't go pro but it will be tough to manage. If you're gonna get him, this is kind of the shot. He's not getting younger. The one issue hanging is the $7.8 million buyout in his contract. That's a big number and IU should have no problem taking care of it. But as an IU alum and fan I do not want that. I don't think he's that good of a coach (although he's light years ahead of FCTC). Marshall is another guy who is a loose cannon who kind of fits the Knight mold. But you start looking at some red flags. Texas didn't even want him when their job opened up. They literally did not even want to talk to him because they thought he was that off his rocker. Then you kind of look at the way his wife was acting this weekend. Go read that story about how she was escorted out of Bankers Life and I think that's hilarious. She actually said "let's go f some **** up" in the stands. It was a riot. The crazy does not stop at Gregg. But he's a heck of a coach and he's 54 and this is the kind of job he's held out for. Bennett is another high profile name we talked about, his style works in the league but I don't see him leaving Virginia unless he has a burning desire to come back to the Midwest. 

**Tier 3: The solid candidates I like as a fan. Mack is 47 and has made the tourney 7 of 8 seasons at Xavier which is something we can't even say at IU. I think he's a good coach, a good tactician. The other one I like is Archie. 4 straight tourneys and 2 straight A-10 titles. Nice playing career as well. He knows how to play, he knows how to coach. I think he can relate to the players and he's a pup that's got more to prove. The bloodlines are pretty good if you look at it from that perspective. His brother is out in Arizona. I think these two are the most solid candidates and your fall back is a guy like Chris Holtmann. Holtmann was Big East coach of the year and made the dance 3 straight seasons. You're gonna get the Drews, both Bryce and Scott. I don't think those are fits. The fall backup is Mick Cronin which I think is a reach and you're hearing Hoiberg chatter as well which is a train wreck. IU is sitting there eying Alford and I'm worried because Marshall is just kind of sitting there and if it was him he'd already be on the podium. So I think they may be waiting out to get Alford which if you're a fan of another Big Ten team that's a dream. Between Marshall, Archie and Mack, Mack is the best tactician with respect to in game, game prep, and those types of things. I think any of those three guys would just be a considerable upgrade from where we are and would keep you away from some of the possible train wrecks I mentioned. On the recruiting front, I think the one legitimate guy that would have the easiest time getting players is Archie. He was a legitimate college basketball player and he averaged almost 43% when playing. He's got that reach, he's done the recruiting, he's got a whole network of guys that know how to recruit at this level. He's still young enough to be able to lure some of these kids in. Marshall has had luck but he's always been third fiddle for some of these prep schools. Mack is levels ahead of the other two as a tactician. He's just a really good basketball coach and that's why Xavier is what they are. It's really all him. If I had to vote I'd put Miller 1, Mack 2, and Marshall 3 because Archie is still young. The one I'm most worried about is Marshall because he's a little crazy, a little bit older and I just don't know who's going to come from his staff and recruit. 

When you get people in there and have those five national titles sitting on those banners albeit some of them dated and you can be the guy that resurrects it, kids will buy into that.

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

I just keep saying there is no way Fred doesn't have his guy already.  It's just timing now.  Said it before as have other posters, Fred doesn't fire his "buddy" Crean without a plan in place.  It's just all timing.

I do not disagree. But the buddy part got abandoned when Crean did not go to his fire the coach meeting.

[Brass Cannon 24,244]

1 minute ago, VeevlandBrowns said:

Some thoughts on the state of IU hoops  

+ Fred Glass is out of his mind. A nice guy who runs a clean program but if you've ever listened to him talk and look at how he's run this program, he looks like a high school athletic director and not a college athletic director. I did get to hear to his press conference the other day. The problem that the next guy is going to have is Glass is out pandering to the alumni and fanbase and I understand why because IU is pretty desperate and just made a change but he's out there basically saying IU should win 100 national titles every year. Pick your favorite NBA coach and he wouldn't be able to live up to that. I'm wondering if he's actually contaminating the actual search process by the way that he's talking. I don't know if you saw that but that was my first take. He sounds like Josh Whitman at Illinois. Again, they're both out of their minds. The hyperbole used in that press conference is a joke. I've never thought he was the right guy for the job and he could be tainting the search a bit. I love the fanbase and the passion but there are some people who think IU can outbid the Celtics and Thunder for an NBA coach which are the top 2. That said, one of the key guys in the search is Marshall and he's kind of crazy himself. 

+ Characteristics of the next coach. First, I don't want to see IU ever give up 95 points again. People want a tactician more than a used car salesman. People want someone fiery. I'm not all about the rah rah guy screaming on the sideline. I want a guy that knows how to coach moreso than anything else.

+ My expectations both short term and long term. First, you should make the tournament every year. So if you're in the tournament every year, that's good. That's the first expectation. You need that punchers chance every year and there's no reason we shouldn't do that. Second, you should be in the top 1/3 of the league every year which would succeed in getting you into the tournament. That's the first hurdle and then I think every 2-4 years you make a deeper run into the tournament and move on. That should be the next hurdle. Bottom line, you gotta get in and win your first couple games to start. 

+ Candidate list I've got and some tiering of it and my philosophies behind it. 
 

**Tier 1: The delusional reaches: Stevens and Donovan. Both of those are long shots. 

**Tier 2: Alford is interesting. He's 52, he's bounced around a lot, his son is graduating, Lonzo is going pro and if you look around Lavar Ball is insane by all accounts and the brothers that are coming through there are not nearly as good. He's got some good players like Leaf who won't go pro but it will be tough to manage. If you're gonna get him, this is kind of the shot. He's not getting younger. The one issue hanging is the $7.8 million buyout in his contract. That's a big number and IU should have no problem taking care of it. But as an IU alum and fan I do not want that. I don't think he's that good of a coach (although he's light years ahead of FCTC). Marshall is another guy who is a loose cannon who kind of fits the Knight mold. But you start looking at some red flags. Texas didn't even want him when their job opened up. They literally did not even want to talk to him because they thought he was that off his rocker. Then you kind of look at the way his wife was acting this weekend. Go read that story about how she was escorted out of Bankers Life and I think that's hilarious. She actually said "let's go f some **** up" in the stands. It was a riot. The crazy does not stop at Gregg. But he's a heck of a coach and he's 54 and this is the kind of job he's held out for. Bennett is another high profile name we talked about, his style works in the league but I don't see him leaving Virginia unless he has a burning desire to come back to the Midwest. 

**Tier 3: The solid candidates I like as a fan. Mack is 47 and has made the tourney 7 of 8 seasons at Xavier which is something we can't even say at IU. I think he's a good coach, a good tactician. The other one I like is Archie. 4 straight tourneys and 2 straight A-10 titles. Nice playing career as well. He knows how to play, he knows how to coach. I think he can relate to the players and he's a pup that's got more to prove. The bloodlines are pretty good if you look at it from that perspective. His brother is out in Arizona. I think these two are the most solid candidates and your fall back is a guy like Chris Holtmann. Holtmann was Big East coach of the year and made the dance 3 straight seasons. You're gonna get the Drews, both Bryce and Scott. I don't think those are fits. The fall backup is Mick Cronin which I think is a reach and you're hearing Hoiberg chatter as well which is a train wreck. IU is sitting there eying Alford and I'm worried because Marshall is just kind of sitting there and if it was him he'd already be on the podium. So I think they may be waiting out to get Alford which if you're a fan of another Big Ten team that's a dream. Between Marshall, Archie and Mack, Mack is the best tactician with respect to in game, game prep, and those types of things. I think any of those three guys would just be a considerable upgrade from where we are and would keep you away from some of the possible train wrecks I mentioned. On the recruiting front, I think the one legitimate guy that would have the easiest time getting players is Archie. He was a legitimate college basketball player and he averaged almost 43% when playing. He's got that reach, he's done the recruiting, he's got a whole network of guys that know how to recruit at this level. He's still young enough to be able to lure some of these kids in. Marshall has had luck but he's always been third fiddle for some of these prep schools. Mack is levels ahead of the other two as a tactician. He's just a really good basketball coach and that's why Xavier is what they are. It's really all him. If I had to vote I'd put Miller 1, Mack 2, and Marshall 3 because Archie is still young. The one I'm most worried about is Marshall because he's a little crazy, a little bit older and I just don't know who's going to come from his staff and recruit. 

When you get people in there and have those five national titles sitting on those banners albeit some of them dated and you can be the guy that resurrects it, kids will buy into that.

I stopped reading pretty early on. But yes IU can outbid the thunder. UK is paying Cal more than the thunder will pay Donovan. 

[stre8186 6]

3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I stopped reading pretty early on. But yes IU can outbid the thunder. UK is paying Cal more than the thunder will pay Donovan. 

This was about 2,000 words of nonsense and conjecture.  Donovan to IU is highly probable at this point.  BD will make far more over a 7-10 year span at IU and also have job security that will not exist in OKC, especially when Westbrook opts out next season.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by stre8186

[bigrod 2,848]

6 minutes ago, IUHAHN82 said:

I just keep saying there is no way Fred doesn't have his guy already.  It's just timing now.  Said it before as have other posters, Fred doesn't fire his "buddy" Crean without a plan in place.  It's just all timing.

I agree. The tone of the press conference sold me on that. You don't make those kinds of statements if you think you are settling for you 5th or 6th choice.

[IUHAHN81 2,176]

3 minutes ago, biteoftheapple said:

I do not disagree. But the buddy part got abandoned when Crean did not go to his fire the coach meeting.

True.  And if u read what Tom and his extended family have said, maybe fred and Tom were never as close as everyone suspected.

[IUHAHN81 2,176]

1 minute ago, bigrod said:

I agree. The tone of the press conference sold me on that. You don't make those kinds of statements if you think you are settling for you 5th or 6th choice.

Exactly.   His demeanor in that presser gave alot away to ME.  I may be alone in that aspect but...

[Adillac 953]

My guess- IU will pay 6-8m for Donovan or Stevens, and probably S.Miller. That kind of money will get anyone's attention. No, I don't think Stevens comes. The other two I think are real possibilities. 

[reconmkd 4,331]

Please wear a sign around your neck that says "I am not Billy Donovan".    LOL

Pretty sure my reddish facial hair and OIF Vet hat might be a dead give away that I'm not, lol.


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[bnkepner 1,509]

2 hours ago, dawormii said:

Not sure if it's been brought up previously but what are people's opinions on Chris Mack from Xavier?

I like him. He recruits the Midwest well and gets a lot out of his players. I have a hard time believing he leaves Xavier though. When asked about the IU job the other day he seemed pretty set on Xavier. He said something to the extent of he is from Cincinnati, he's a Xavier grad and they compete in the conference of last years national champs so he has it good where he is at.

[IUHAHN81 2,176]

I don't care about the football hire.  IU is a bball school and Fred knows that.  This is his 1st chance to make a huge splash with a hire and I think the part of Fred that is a huge IU fan will sew up a great hire.  Like I said, I personally think it's already done.  Just when to let it out. 

[pumpfake 3,930]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I stopped reading pretty early on. But yes IU can outbid the thunder. UK is paying Cal more than the thunder will pay Donovan. 

I'd add that it probably wouldn't be simply a case of offering more money.  The coach's desire (or preference) to come back to college ball and near and long term prospects for his current roster would have to be (at least) equally important.  In other words, I doubt any school is going to lure an NBA coach to their school based simply on salary - the closest you could come would be if it were an alumnus or that coach's long time dream job.

[Bowhunter 2,693]

I like him. He recruits the Midwest well and gets a lot out of his players. I have a hard time believing he leaves Xavier though. When asked about the IU job the other day he seemed pretty set on Xavier. He said something to the extent of he is from Cincinnati, he's a Xavier grad and they compete in the conference of last years national champs so he has it good where he is at.

I thought mack played for UE

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[biteoftheapple 4,115]

I thought mack played for UE

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He played at both. Transferred from UE to X

[bigrod 2,848]

I had a thought about Alford this morning as I was driving to work: It seems to me, that if you look at his 20 year career record and trajectory, it is exactly the type of record that everyone is afraid a young, unproven guy like Archie or Holtmann, etc. will end up with. If you would not be happy with one of those guys having that type of record at IU for the next 10-20 years, why would we hire someone who has 20 years of evidence.

I get all of the arguments about the places he has coached, but it seems to me that the really good coaches elevate their programs to a different status.