TOM CREAN FIRED

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,522]

Imo, and as it relates to this team, there is one individual who has perpetuated this through the team. And you've got two other goofballs who aren't being held accountable by him. And the whole damn thing goes permeates through after that. Can you imagine being OG/TB/JW and looking up to that group. Good god.

I get what you're saying, Wayne. It's going to be hard to find the last time I defended Crean. And Crean does hold the ultimate accountability. But to feel bad for these players, i can't get on board with that. They deserve quite a bit of the blame from my perspective.

i appreciate this. Did you read that Purdue article on Twitter saying Crean isn't the problem? Puts full blame on an individual calling him our " Ronnie Johnson". Thoughts to that?

[LIHoosier 27,791]

i appreciate this. Did you read that Purdue article on Twitter saying Crean isn't the problem? Puts full blame on an individual calling him our " Ronnie Johnson". Thoughts to that?

They want Crean here till he's 80. You blame them?

[hoosierpap 14,300]

i appreciate this. Did you read that Purdue article on Twitter saying Crean isn't the problem? Puts full blame on an individual calling him our " Ronnie Johnson". Thoughts to that?

No, can you post it here. I missed it. 

[HoosierTrav 8,339]

Here's the problem, Trav. The administration and BOT does not have the same expectations for the basketball team as you, me, or most people on this board do. They are looking at different factors and not relying solely on on the court results. Fortunately, while they're in "power" they'll go where the money goes. The money just needs to talk.

So sad but true. I have to believe that the money is invested enough to want a contender. I have a hard time believing CSS, Ken Nunn, Cook, Mark Cuban, and others are willing to pour millions of dollars into a program that is losing and not filling the newly renovated Assembly Hall. The fan base has already proven, in the past, that they won't spend their money on a losing cause, and will help force the hand of the leadership. This will be the case here. Fans won't support and the money (revenue) will be impacted negatively. This situation is unique in its own right, IMO. I believe the fan base has reached a breaking point unlike the past circumstances (Davis & Sampson). Those instances we clamored for change and change alone. We acquiesced. This time the fan base is going away and staying away until the right hire is made. No more mistakes. No more risky hires, either ethically or performance based. I cannot remember the entire fanbase ever being so unanimous in their desire for one specific coach, (outside of Knight) like they are with Brad Stevens. It's almost as if, we are saying, in a way, that we aren't letting the leadership make the decisions anymore. The people are speaking and it's our way or we are gone. I really feel that way. Indiana basketball went through its darkest days post Sampson but now we are teetering on losing a large portion of longtime fans for good. I talk to some old timers that have been IU die hards for their entire lives and they are ready to pack it in. They are so sick and tired of watching people destroy our image as a power basketball program. It's so sad seeing how defeated they sound. We care so much about this program. We pour our hearts, souls, and dollars into supporting it. It hurts to watch something so massively important be dismantled by the few who are charged with leading it to success. I'm a sad fan right now. I'm embarrassed to be an Indiana fan. I feel shame wearing my gear out into public right now. Maybe that makes me less of a fan? I don't know. If it isn't fixed and fixed quick, I'm going to be focusing my passion elsewhere. Perhaps I've been the fool the whole time for being the one exerting far too much energy into something as silly as being a college basketball fan.

[Brass Cannon 25,454]

I agree Brad Stevens is the guy who can return us to prominence we all know it.  Thats why the administration has to do everything to try and get him, and if they fail it has to be public they did everything they could or else whoever they do get will always be "Not Brad Stevens" 

[coonhounds 10,558]

If anyone has been to 247, is HTD still doing mental gymnastics to make Crean seem like the right guy?

I am not on as often as I used to be but took a quick look and didn't see anything. If that guy has given up then all hope is lost for crean lol.

[Hoosier DaDa 3,770]

My bad, I meant if we don't make the dance this year, then he has to go.
I honestly never thought we were a title contender this year. We don't have a bench, don't have the leadership it seems, we're very inconsistent, and our coach is no better than any 3A HS coach in Indiana.

Don't insult the 3A coaches like that.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 91,216]

Anyone who has read Dante's Divine Comedy - a great read by the way, will recall the words above the entrance to Dante's hell, "Abandon hope all ye who enter here."  Once upon a time those would have been words of advice to our Assembly Hall opponent.  If our ship doesn't get righted ASAP, those will be words of advice to the IU faithful.

 

There have been several clamoring for CTC's immediate ouster which I can't agree with quite just yet.  To me, the question is who do you replace him with?  Typically, a mid-season replacement is an assistant coach who gains the tag of interim head coach.  But, what do you gain other than a different face doing the interviews?  Apparently, the assistants are 110% in lockstep with CTC's coaching philosophy and have been, or surely by now we would have seen some evidence of input from them to change our m.o.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,522]

Anyone who has read Dante's Divine Comedy - a great read by the way, will recall the words above the entrance to Dante's hell, "Abandon hope all ye who enter here." Once upon a time those would have been words of advice to our Assembly Hall opponent. If our ship doesn't get righted ASAP, those will be words of advice to the IU faithful.

There have been several clamoring for CTC's immediate ouster which I can't agree with quite just yet. To me, the question is who do you replace him with? Typically, a mid-season replacement is an assistant coach who gains the tag of interim head coach. But, what do you gain other than a different face doing the interviews? Apparently, the assistants are 110% in lockstep with CTC's coaching philosophy and have been, or surely by now we would have seen some evidence of input from them to change our m.o.

If he is listening to assistants, it may be part of the mixed message. He is very confused on defense. Someone who knows what they are doing needs full control of defensive schemes. All coaches can and should teach fundamentals but the staff needs to be 1 voice regarding schemes and game plans. I heard about him bringing people in from the outside to help last year. Random type stuff.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,522]

@GoldandBlackcom: #Purdue coach Matt Painter: 'I don't think our defensive is very good right now. … I can watch film with you and show you the breakdowns.'

[mdn82 26,344]

How under Tom Izzo is your defense not a staple of your coaching?

[8bucks 7,585]

No, can you post it here. I missed it.

Is this it Wayne?

http://www.fanly.me/c/ROBJ9s38ls

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

If he is listening to assistants, it may be part of the mixed message. He is very confused on defense. Someone who knows what they are doing needs full control of defensive schemes. All coaches can and should teach fundamentals but the staff needs to be 1 voice regarding schemes and game plans. I heard about him bringing people in from the outside to help last year. Random type stuff.

The post-Duke Assembly Call had a great segment on how he needs to look at what he's doing and do the complete opposite. Just stop trying to do it himself and either delegate it to someone else in the staff or find another way to teach the defense because it is obviously not working. They're right. I don't know what is going on in practice, but I think we are good on gameplanning and offensive work until Notre Dame. Let's only do defensive drills for one kind of defense.

 

Actually, that whole Assembly Call is very very good if people don't normally listen. They're a fairly optimistic group, but the way they breakdown the failures in coaching over the past few years and the feeling of disappointment and sadness in the hearts of IU fans is great. Jerod has a great speech at the end about how much it sucks to be a fan right now and how it shouldn't.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,522]

Is this it Wayne?

http://www.fanly.me/c/ROBJ9s38ls

yep, that was the one. Thanks.

[8bucks 7,585]

yep, that was the one. Thanks.

They make a good point and it corresponds to the questions I asked above. Painter built a great team with the baby boilers and seemed to have all the recruiting momentum but instead of building on the success they faltered. Why, because they got away from recruiting Purdue guys. Guys who would play defense primarily.

Similarly, Crean built a great team with VO, Cody ETC but then when he should have had recruiting momentum his later classes have largely bombed. Did he get away from recruiting his kind of players and followed the stars too much? Does he really know what his type of guy is?

[hoosierpap 14,300]

i appreciate this. Did you read that Purdue article on Twitter saying Crean isn't the problem? Puts full blame on an individual calling him our " Ronnie Johnson". Thoughts to that?

Just read it. And thanks for posting 8bucks. I wouldn't say it's apples to apples but the overall sentiment of that article is pretty much what I'm talking about. Been that way since day 1 for him.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,522]

Just read it. And thanks for posting 8bucks. I wouldn't say it's apples to apples but the overall sentiment of that article is pretty much what I'm talking about. Been that way since day 1 for him.

thought that was what you were getting at, that's why it crossed my mind.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

They make a good point and it corresponds to the questions I asked above. Painter built a great team with the baby boilers and seemed to have all the recruiting momentum but instead of building on the success they faltered. Why, because they got away from recruiting Purdue guys. Guys who would play defense primarily.

Similarly, Crean built a great team with VO, Cody ETC but then when he should have had recruiting momentum his later classes have largely bombed. Did he get away from recruiting his kind of players and followed the stars too much? Does he really know what his type of guy is?

I think you're going to recruit top players if you can. Crean hasn't always been in that position in the early days. Cody absolutely was a star.

So what can Crean really do in identifying trouble? Well there were signs in all cases but, again, you take the talent.

YF is clearly that. Everyone knew he had some of these issues but kids were recruiting each other to IU at that time. So yes, there were warning signs but i'm going to allow that article to spell them out more than i'd like to get into. Regardless, what is Crean going to do, not go after a MCDAA in his backyard where there is an obvious need at the positon? No, he's going to go get him and hope he buys in and is humbled by a veteran team where he becomes the pg. It didn't happen.

TW is clearly a talent. But he is there for himself. Crean saw an opportunity late in the recruiting calendar to get a top talent and had a connection to the program. Warning signs? TW has played for his Uncle or played for coaches influenced by his uncle. TW grew up playing in that environment and can't imagine there is much accountability to the team.

JBJ is a talent. Warning sign? Played for Dad forever, never held accountable. What is Crean going to do when the kid is a top player in the state and is calling HIM at 14 years old? Say no thanks? Again, you assume this guy is going to buy into the system, be about the team etc you get it. But they just aren't.

There is no way to measure this or anything, but it's my belief that there is one guy who could have stopped the egos below him. Then again, Will couldn't even get that kids head on straight so who knows.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,522]

I think you're going to recruit top players if you can. Crean hasn't always been in that position in the early days. Cody absolutely was a star.

So what can Crean really do in identifying trouble? Well there were signs in all cases but, again, you take the talent.

YF is clearly that. Everyone knew he had some of these issues but kids were recruiting each other to IU at that time. So yes, there were warning signs but i'm going to allow that article to spell them out more than i'd like to get into. Regardless, what is Crean going to do, not go after a MCDAA in his backyard where there is an obvious need at the positon? No, he's going to go get him and hope he buys in and is humbled by a veteran team where he becomes the pg. It didn't happen.

TW is clearly a talent. But he is there for himself. Crean saw an opportunity late in the recruiting calendar to get a top talent and had a connection to the program. Warning signs? TW has played for his Uncle or played for coaches influenced by his uncle. TW grew up playing in that environment and can't imagine there is much accountability to the team.

JBJ is a talent. Warning sign? Played for Dad forever, never held accountable. What is Crean going to do when the kid is a top player in the state and is calling HIM at 14 years old? Say no thanks? Again, you assume this guy is going to buy into the system, be about the team etc you get it. But they just aren't.

There is no way to measure this or anything, but it's my belief that there is one guy who could have stopped the egos below him. Then again, Will couldn't even get that kids head on straight so who knows.

good post. I see your point clearly now.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,522]

Which matches up with Glass, "Crean is not the problem, he is part of the solution". Definitely complicates things but other coaches CAN deal with egos. Sounds like we need a full rebuild. Gotta wonder where the toxicity stops. Many of these guys like one another.