Has the team peaked?

[Class of '66 Old Fart 87,871]

CTC is notoriously vague on individual player health/injuries but he has repeatedly implied that RoJo is banged up.

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

Anyone know if TW is receptive to ppl talking to him out in public?

He was very receptive to my wife and I when we saw him before. Talked a little, took pictures, then went on our way.

[schoosier 3,636]

I was thinking this the other day.  I think our best chance is to have Hartman start on him.  When Hartman has to foul him make sure they count.  Then we bring OG and JMor in to guard him.  If he's taking those turn around fade away jumpers we're in business.  If he's hitting them you just clap for him.  I would allow Troy to guard him for a few possessions here and there.

Hartman would get posted up from the get go but still may be our best option. Iowa will look to get TB in foul trouble early as with most of the better teams we face. Max has played really well for us,but will be overmatched with Iowas size. Size is our biggest weakness which Iowa and Purdue will exploit. We have to find ways around this; pressing would be an excellent option against both of these teams.

[HoosierAloha 30,100]

Hartman would get posted up from the get go but still may be our best option. Iowa will look to get TB in foul trouble early as with most of the better teams we face. Max has played really well for us,but will be overmatched with Iowas size. Size is our biggest weakness which Iowa and Purdue will exploit. We have to find ways around this; pressing would be an excellent option against both of these teams.

 

Iowa and purdue's size are different though.  Iowa has tall lanky players in Woodbury, Uhtoff, Jok, Baer, and Uhl.  They're not the tallest but they have length.  I think Troy, OG, and JMor can match some of that length and athleticism.  Hartman would be used solely as a body to stay with Uthoff and try to contest shots.  I don't think we will completely shut him down.  TB has to be smart of defense and muscle Woodbury down low on offense.  Max needs to pull Woodbury out of the lane to give Yogi and RoJo driving lanes on Gesell, he is a weakness on defense that they can beat off the dribble.

[schoosier 3,636]

Iowa and purdue's size are different though.  Iowa has tall lanky players in Woodbury, Uhtoff, Jok, Baer, and Uhl.  They're not the tallest but they have length.  I think Troy, OG, and JMor can match some of that length and athleticism.  Hartman would be used solely as a body to stay with Uthoff and try to contest shots.  I don't think we will completely shut him down.  TB has to be smart of defense and muscle Woodbury down low on offense.  Max needs to pull Woodbury out of the lane to give Yogi and RoJo driving lanes on Gesell, he is a weakness on defense that they can beat off the dribble.

Jok as a 6'6" two guard with a 6'9" Uthoff & Uhl, adding 7'1" Woodbury is a lot of size. Our best chance to win is speeding the game way up and keeping the ball out of Gesell's hands. They will go early and often at TB. Your better teams and coaches know he has been a big part of our success and limiting his minutes hurts our chances.

[HoosierAloha 30,100]

Jok as a 6'6" two guard with a 6'9" Uthoff & Uhl, adding 7'1" Woodbury is a lot of size. Our best chance to win is speeding the game way up and keeping the ball out of Gesell's hands. They will go early and often at TB. Your better teams and coaches know he has been a big part of our success and limiting his minutes hurts our chances.

 

Clemmons has been playing at the 2 for most of the season though right?  Jok has been playing the 3.  They can put a long and athletic team on the floor.  A way that we can speed them up is getting Woodbury in foul trouble and forcing him to the bench early to allow for the lane to open up more. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,962]

Clemmons has been playing at the 2 for most of the season though right? Jok has been playing the 3. They can put a long and athletic team on the floor. A way that we can speed them up is getting Woodbury in foul trouble and forcing him to the bench early to allow for the lane to open up more.

McCaffrey gets recruiting credit? Jok. And OG was going to be another unheralded stud. Usually lowa leads to middling results, but this team seems different.

[Old Friend 8,549]

Iowa and purdue's size are different though.  Iowa has tall lanky players in Woodbury, Uhtoff, Jok, Baer, and Uhl.  They're not the tallest but they have length.  I think Troy, OG, and JMor can match some of that length and athleticism.  Hartman would be used solely as a body to stay with Uthoff and try to contest shots.  I don't think we will completely shut him down.  TB has to be smart of defense and muscle Woodbury down low on offense.  Max needs to pull Woodbury out of the lane to give Yogi and RoJo driving lanes on Gesell, he is a weakness on defense that they can beat off the dribble.

Iowa's really good.  OG would be way overmatched against them right now.  They're loaded with experience and length....and take a look at where they're all from, save 1.  In the Big Ten, you win with smart, experienced players.  Been that way for decades, and it's not changing.  Iowa now, Wisconsin and Michigan State for the past decade or so....  I know I've beaten this horse for a while, but recruiting the east coast just isn't necessary.  http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/iowa-m-baskbl-mtt.html

[HoosierAloha 30,100]

Iowa's really good.  OG would be way overmatched against them right now.  They're loaded with experience and length....and take a look at where they're all from, save 1.  In the Big Ten, you win with smart, experienced players.  Been that way for decades, and it's not changing.  Iowa now, Wisconsin and Michigan State for the past decade or so....  I know I've beaten this horse for a while, but recruiting the east coast just isn't necessary.  http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/iowa-m-baskbl-mtt.html

 

Okay

[JaybobHoosier 12,474]

Hard to say in some ways, but I don't think so.  To me, while they can play really bad, has more energy and depth about them.  Now, I think Yogi may end up wearing down because of a lack of depth behind him, but we have others who can step up 3 through 5 behind our starters.  Like I said, it's hard to say because this team is really good, or could play really bad.  I think going forward, the biggest X factor becomes Robert Johnson, because he has to be a good back up PG when Yogi is out.

[Yogi'sBicep 1,048]

Yawn. Watch us run them off the court. Great couple wins by Iowa, but we are going to tear them up. Bump.

[Yogi'sBicep 1,048]

Anyone know if TW is receptive to ppl talking to him out in public?

I've talked to him due to having a few common friends.

[HoosierTrav 8,087]

It might be a too early for the peak.  Although I would advise everyone to expect the team to peak too soon and the wheels start falling off late in Feb, that's just status quo with Crean as coach.

It sounds so brash to say but it has proven itself to be true.

[HoosierTrav 8,087]

Iowa's really good.  OG would be way overmatched against them right now.  They're loaded with experience and length....and take a look at where they're all from, save 1.  In the Big Ten, you win with smart, experienced players.  Been that way for decades, and it's not changing.  Iowa now, Wisconsin and Michigan State for the past decade or so....  I know I've beaten this horse for a while, but recruiting the east coast just isn't necessary.  http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/iowa-m-baskbl-mtt.html

Iowa is very good this season. I agree. The issue is that they were hot garbage for 3+ years prior to this year. Certainly not in the convo when discussing who's been having sustained success. Let's stop pretending that Iowa's formula is some formula to emulate bc its not in today's current cbb climate. This years team does a great job at proving your point but just go back the last 3 years (or more) and you will find that even though we can't stand Crean and his teambuilding approach, it has had higher levels of success than what Iowa has been implementing. To win in CBB, year in and year out,  you have to have a good mix of 3-4 year guys with elite level 1-2 year kids.

 

And why has it taken those great midwestern kids at Iowa 4 years to have success? The east coast produces winners. Period! Its up to the coach to make sure that they can fit within their system and culture.

[Old Friend 8,549]

Iowa is very good this season. I agree. The issue is that they were hot garbage for 3+ years prior to this year. Certainly not in the convo when discussing who's been having sustained success. Let's stop pretending that Iowa's formula is some formula to emulate bc its not in today's current cbb climate. This years team does a great job at proving your point but just go back the last 3 years (or more) and you will find that even though we can't stand Crean and his teambuilding approach, it has had higher levels of success than what Iowa has been implementing. To win in CBB, year in and year out,  you have to have a good mix of 3-4 year guys with elite level 1-2 year kids.

 

And why has it taken those great midwestern kids at Iowa 4 years to have success? The east coast produces winners. Period! Its up to the coach to make sure that they can fit within their system and culture.

What midwestern team has had consistent success recruiting east coast players.   Or even overall?  Duke and Kentucky are different animals.  We are not Duke and Kentucky, and those schools are not recruiting 3* and 4* kids like we are.  There is no precedent for what Crean's doing, and I know what I've watched from the kids he's had here.  If you don't agree with me, you're never going to and I don't need to explain or sell it any more than I have; but I think you're hoping. I don't think you put any weight to culture, DNA, or expectations at Indiana.  Your prerogative and I'm not arguing with you.  I just don't believe your position is supported with anything concrete and I think mine is.

 

I don't want to be a program like Kentucky.  I don't want to root for laundry and sell our soul for the sake of winning games.  Iowa was hot garbage last season and beat Indiana by 14 and finished 3 spots ahead of Indiana in the Big Ten.  Hot garbage with 22 wins and a win in the NCAA tournament?  Think you need to eliminate last season from that comment.  

 

Regardless of what they were a year ago, what they've done is build a team that can win at a very high level.  It's yet to be seen if they can maintain it or not, but the formula is similar to what Knight did here.  He built teams that had seniors and were capable of winning on a national level.  He always (until the late 1990's) had recruiting classes that included 3-4 year players who ultimately won national awards.  He added to rosters with kids who fit, not just kids who said yes.  And he asked those kids to play roles which would help his teams win.  Same as what Iowa has done.  If Iowa goes backward...that's on them.  But this season, they're rolling and beating teams a lot better than Indiana is.  Their Sagarin rating is 6.  So last season, they took a step.  I think it's clear they're taking another one this season.   And they're doing it with experienced players who know the program because they're close to it.  Same as Indiana did for 3 decades.  

 

I agree with you that it's up to the coach to make sure kids fit within the culture.  My problem there is two-fold.  Because Crean has recruited with a shotgun approach, there IS no culture anymore.  And, as I've said many times, he hasn't done that.  He throws mud at a wall and hopes some of it sticks.  Why else do we go get a 3* combo guard from New York?  

 

For the sake of discussion, who are these "winners" the east coast produces...period?  Can you point to consistency?  I'll point to Wisconsin and Michigan State and show you their rosters over the last 15 years.   Who among us wouldn't trade our last 15 years (recruiting the south and the east) for theirs?   Again, take Duke and UK out of it.  They're unique in their own way like I think IU is unique in our own way.  What program not IN the northeast has recruited the northeast to consistent success?

[Uspshoosier 50,982]

What midwestern team has had consistent success recruiting east coast players. Or even overall? Duke and Kentucky are different animals. We are not Duke and Kentucky, and those schools are not recruiting 3* and 4* kids like we are. There is no precedent for what Crean's doing, and I know what I've watched from the kids he's had here. If you don't agree with me, you're never going to and I don't need to explain or sell it any more than I have; but I think you're hoping. I don't think you put any weight to culture, DNA, or expectations at Indiana. Your prerogative and I'm not arguing with you. I just don't believe your position is supported with anything concrete and I think mine is.

I don't want to be a program like Kentucky. I don't want to root for laundry and sell our soul for the sake of winning games. Iowa was hot garbage last season and beat Indiana by 14 and finished 3 spots ahead of Indiana in the Big Ten. Hot garbage with 22 wins and a win in the NCAA tournament? Think you need to eliminate last season from that comment.

Regardless of what they were a year ago, what they've done is build a team that can win at a very high level. It's yet to be seen if they can maintain it or not, but the formula is similar to what Knight did here. He built teams that had seniors and were capable of winning on a national level. He always (until the late 1990's) had recruiting classes that included 3-4 year players who ultimately won national awards. He added to rosters with kids who fit, not just kids who said yes. And he asked those kids to play roles which would help his teams win. Same as what Iowa has done. If Iowa goes backward...that's on them. But this season, they're rolling and beating teams a lot better than Indiana is. Their Sagarin rating is 6. So last season, they took a step. I think it's clear they're taking another one this season. And they're doing it with experienced players who know the program because they're close to it. Same as Indiana did for 3 decades.

I agree with you that it's up to the coach to make sure kids fit within the culture. My problem there is two-fold. Because Crean has recruited with a shotgun approach, there IS no culture anymore. And, as I've said many times, he hasn't done that. He throws mud at a wall and hopes some of it sticks. Why else do we go get a 3* combo guard from New York?

For the sake of discussion, who are these "winners" the east coast produces...period? Can you point to consistency? I'll point to Wisconsin and Michigan State and show you their rosters over the last 15 years. Who among us wouldn't trade our last 15 years (recruiting the south and the east) for theirs? Again, take Duke and UK out of it. They're unique in their own way like I think IU is unique in our own way. What program not IN the northeast has recruited the northeast to consistent success?

maybe Villanova if I had a guess at a program that has recruited the east and has has some sucess

[mdn82 25,782]

Indiana did what they did for 3 decades cause there wasn't national recruiting unless you were UCLA. Times have changed. The phone was a hell of an invention, but evolved over time. Out of all of "local" talent since Crean got here only 3 have not been disappointing. Cody, Jordy, and Yogi.

If you don't agree with me, you're never going to and I don't need to explain or sell it any more than I have; but I think you're hoping. I don't think you put any weight to culture, DNA, or expectations at Indiana. Your prerogative and I'm not arguing with you. I just don't believe your position is supported with anything concrete and I think mine is.

If anyone said the paragraph above to you GC you would be the first one to say everyone is out to get you... Yet you don't see why people act that way towards you? It's everyone else? You are the only one coming to the table with facts huh? This is what Mamasa was talking about in that thread Colts.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

What midwestern team has had consistent success recruiting east coast players. Or even overall? Duke and Kentucky are different animals. We are not Duke and Kentucky, and those schools are not recruiting 3* and 4* kids like we are. There is no precedent for what Crean's doing, and I know what I've watched from the kids he's had here. If you don't agree with me, you're never going to and I don't need to explain or sell it any more than I have; but I think you're hoping. I don't think you put any weight to culture, DNA, or expectations at Indiana. Your prerogative and I'm not arguing with you. I just don't believe your position is supported with anything concrete and I think mine is.

I don't want to be a program like Kentucky. I don't want to root for laundry and sell our soul for the sake of winning games. Iowa was hot garbage last season and beat Indiana by 14 and finished 3 spots ahead of Indiana in the Big Ten. Hot garbage with 22 wins and a win in the NCAA tournament? Think you need to eliminate last season from that comment.

Regardless of what they were a year ago, what they've done is build a team that can win at a very high level. It's yet to be seen if they can maintain it or not, but the formula is similar to what Knight did here. He built teams that had seniors and were capable of winning on a national level. He always (until the late 1990's) had recruiting classes that included 3-4 year players who ultimately won national awards. He added to rosters with kids who fit, not just kids who said yes. And he asked those kids to play roles which would help his teams win. Same as what Iowa has done. If Iowa goes backward...that's on them. But this season, they're rolling and beating teams a lot better than Indiana is. Their Sagarin rating is 6. So last season, they took a step. I think it's clear they're taking another one this season. And they're doing it with experienced players who know the program because they're close to it. Same as Indiana did for 3 decades.

I agree with you that it's up to the coach to make sure kids fit within the culture. My problem there is two-fold. Because Crean has recruited with a shotgun approach, there IS no culture anymore. And, as I've said many times, he hasn't done that. He throws mud at a wall and hopes some of it sticks. Why else do we go get a 3* combo guard from New York?

For the sake of discussion, who are these "winners" the east coast produces...period? Can you point to consistency? I'll point to Wisconsin and Michigan State and show you their rosters over the last 15 years. Who among us wouldn't trade our last 15 years (recruiting the south and the east) for theirs? Again, take Duke and UK out of it. They're unique in their own way like I think IU is unique in our own way. What program not IN the northeast has recruited the northeast to consistent success?

What team do you want to be then? Because outside of Izzo State (let's be real, Izzo is the reason for their success, not some geographically targeted recruiting strategy) which Midwestern team recruiting your dream corn fed farm boys is contending for their conference title and Final Four every year? Kansas? Oh wait, they recruit around the nation just like Kentucky. Hmmm... Oh! Michigan! Wait, they're hot garbage since their Final Four appearance? Never mind. Even our best example of a local recruiting strategy driving consistent (top 4 conference finishes) success, Wisconsin, is suffering this year after losing their very well developed studs. So who do you want us to be? Don't tell me you want to be the Indiana of the 70's and 80's, because just like Bobby Knight, that fish has fried (at a Purdue Alumni event...).

[RBB89 3,497]

Iowa's really good. OG would be way overmatched against them right now. They're loaded with experience and length....and take a look at where they're all from, save 1. In the Big Ten, you win with smart, experienced players. Been that way for decades, and it's not changing. Iowa now, Wisconsin and Michigan State for the past decade or so.... I know I've beaten this horse for a while, but recruiting the east coast just isn't necessary. http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/iowa-m-baskbl-mtt.html

Wait, OG's going to be overmatched because he's not from Indiana?

Wut

[chitown hoosier 743]

Through 5 b1g games, I have yet to see OG overmatched defensively against anyone and it's not like he's been gaurding chump change competition either. Does he make freshman mistakes at times? Sure, but he has the length and athleticism to at least pressure whoever he guards. He's a good one and so is Morgan. I can't say bad things about Gelon because I have yet to see how he plays with an Indiana jersey, but I would much rather see recruits like OG who also "get it" that have a higher ceiling.