2012-2013 vs. 2015-2016

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

A shot at comparing 2015-2016 against 2012-2013:

 

STARTERS

PG - Fr Yogi < Sr Yogi

SG - Hulls < Blackmon

G - Oladipo >= Troy (leaving this open, with the nod to Vic for now)

F - Watford > Beifeldt

C - Zeller > Bryant

 

BENCH

G - Abell < RoJo

F/G - Sheehey > Hartman

F/G - Hollowell = OG

F - Elston > Morgan

F/G - Etherington < Z3

G - Creek > Newkirk (Inactive)

F - HMP < N/A (Fr HMP was a negative, even if it means having one less player)

 

BENCH MOB

Marlin < Burton

Raphael = Taylor

T. Wayer = Niego

Howard > Fuchs

Jurkin < Priller

 

I think 2015-2016 is the deepest team we've had since the 2012-2013 run, but it's pretty hard to say that there's more depth this early in the season. My keys to this team matching or beating the depth of the 2012-2013 team are as follows:

 

- Can Bryant match Zeller's 30 mpg, and run the floor at a similar level? So far, he seems a bit less polished offensively, but very strong defensively. Zeller put up 16 ppg and 8 rpg that year, but actually improved slightly during conference play. Bryant seems as though he could fall in the 12-16 ppg and 7-10 rpg range. This might not be as large of a difference as expected, but if you factor in conditioning and foul trouble, I don't know that Bryant will average much higher than 25 mpg.

- Can Troy be better than Oladipo? As crazy as it is to compare anyone's impact to Vic's, I really don't think this is too much of a stretch. Statistically, Troy's ppg and rpg last year essentially matched Vic as a junior. Junior Vic was actually MORE turnover prone than sophomore Troy. The biggest separation between the two appears on defense. If Troy keeps his turnovers at or below last years total, and at least becomes an average defender, the gap between him and Vic becomes very hard to identify.

- What will we get from the bench this year? Elston, Abell, and Sheehey were fairly consistent contributors, but between Rojo, Hartman, and Zeisloft, I think we can expect much greater production, even if they perform at the same level as last year. If Morgan and OG provide even basic production, our bench holds much greater depth and potential.

 

One major intangible difference between 2012-2013 and 2015-2016 is that Vic and Crew had hope and momentum as a program. There is a lot of doubt and pressure surrounding the 2015-2016 team. We'll see how that impacts the team this year. Will they crumble, or silence the concerns of the self-proclaimed most knowledgeable fan base in basketball?

[Alford Bailey 12,339]

Interesting topic. I too believe Cody was more polished and ready to have an immediate impact. I expect Bryant to be more up and down and I expect Thomas to get into foul trouble on occasion which was something Cody was mostly able to avoid. As far as the Troy -Vic comparison I dont think its close. Both are great athletes but Vic was much more under control and could dominate the game at both ends at times. Troy seems to still be out of control at times. Has big time potential but just isn't there yet.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Interesting topic. I too believe Cody was more polished and ready to have an immediate impact. I expect Bryant to be more up and down and I expect Thomas to get into foul trouble on occasion which was something Cody was mostly able to avoid. As far as the Troy -Vic comparison I dont think its close. Both are great athletes but Vic was much more under control and could dominate the game at both ends at times. Troy seems to still be out of control at times. Has big time potential but just isn't there yet.

Defensively, I agree, but the numbers show Vic was actually more turnover prone. Honestly, Vic's biggest weakness was his control.

[Alford Bailey 12,339]

Defensively, I agree, but the numbers show Vic was actually more turnover prone. Honestly, Vic's biggest weakness was his control.

Well, if Vic did turn it over he was much more likely to go to the other end and get it right back. LOL. I just know if 2012 Vic and 2015 Troy were standing side by side I'd pick Vic without hesitation.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Well, if Vic did turn it over he was much more likely to go to the other end and get it right back. LOL. I just know if 2012 Vic and 2015 Troy were standing side by side I'd pick Vic without hesitation.

Initially, I did as well, but we also have the bias from watching junior Vic and comparing it to the potential of junior Troy. It'll be interesting to see how we all feel about this comparison after the season ends. I'm predicting it surprises us all.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Well, if Vic did turn it over he was much more likely to go to the other end and get it right back. LOL. I just know if 2012 Vic and 2015 Troy were standing side by side I'd pick Vic without hesitation.

If a version of a player you watched for a season and a version of a player you've watched for two exhibition games were side-by-side you'd pick the known quantity who later was drafted in the top of the draft and had a wildly successful rookie season?

 

How daring of you.

[Striper 192]

Initially, I did as well, but we also have the bias from watching junior Vic and comparing it to the potential of junior Troy. It'll be interesting to see how we all feel about this comparison after the season ends. I'm predicting it surprises us all.

If you put sophomore Vic vs. sophomore Troy I would easily take Troy.  Better stats almost across the board on a worse team.  I agree, the junior year of Vic skews one's view.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

If you put sophomore Vic vs. sophomore Troy I would easily take Troy.  Better stats almost across the board on a worse team.  I agree, the junior year of Vic skews one's view.

Troy had a much better sophomore year than Vic, but Vic made a HUGE leap between sophomore and junior year. Like I said, I really think next offseason we'll look back and say Troy was better. Honestly, Vic is just immaculate in our eyes because he played hard, was a major underdog, was our highest draft pick in many years, and embodied Indiana basketball, while Troy has faltered here and there in the eyes of the fanbase and came in with major hype. 

[Defenserocks28 393]

Vic Sophomore Win Shares: 3.9

Troy Sophomore Win Shares: 3.7

 

Vic Junior Win Shares: 6.8

Troy: ?

 

 

Source:

Victor: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/victor-oladipo-1.html

Troy: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/troy-williams-2.html

[FortWayneHoosier 5,882]

I don't have a ton of thought on this subject, but if this hasn't been mentioned in other threads....I love your name hahah! "Walking boot of doom"

[Brass Cannon 24,191]

While the Zeller team may be deeper college basketball is so guard dominated this team might honestly have a better shot of getting hot and winning some tournaments. 

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

The advantage that this team has is that it's guards are not all 6'0" that is the sole reason Syracuse tore us up.

[JSHoosier 19,743]

The advantage that this team has is that it's guards are not all 6'0" that is the sole reason Syracuse tore us up.

Gotta disagree on that one.  They looked like they'd never even heard of a zone defense, they were comically unprepared.

[OliviaPope40 6,377]

One your first point NO BRYANT CAN'T TOP THAT! I know I'm biased but who cares about that.

Edited November 11, 2015 by OliviaPope40

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

Gotta disagree on that one. They looked like they'd never even heard of a zone defense, they were comically unprepared.

To each their own I guess. Hard to play a zone when you can't see around it.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Mods, not sure why, but I posted this from a Windows laptop, and can't view the text in the OP on an Apple phone.

[Brass Cannon 24,191]

Gotta disagree on that one.  They looked like they'd never even heard of a zone defense, they were comically unprepared.

 

Agree completely.  Yogi was overwhelmed by the concept of the zone.  Hulls did much better at running the offense but his shot was still off from being injured sadly. 

[JSHoosier 19,743]

To each their own I guess. Hard to play a zone when you can't see around it.

If you're going to try and reverse the ball against a zone it needs to be quick to keep the defense moving and open gaps.  They didn't do that; they reversed the ball slow giving the defense time to reset itself.  Plus they didn't do a good job of cutting to the middle where the zone is weak.

[JSHoosier 19,743]

On topic, it's too early to say how deep this team really is.  2012-13 was a deep team on paper, but didn't turn out that way.

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

If you're going to try and reverse the ball against a zone it needs to be quick to keep the defense moving and open gaps. They didn't do that; they reversed the ball slow giving the defense time to reset itself. Plus they didn't do a good job of cutting to the middle where the zone is weak.

You have to be able to shoot, we couldn't get good shots off. You can try to break down why but Syracuse was a terrible matchup for us. Blame Crean all you want, he could've done more to find an answer, but 6'0" guards can't do anything to a zone with the shortest defender at 6'5".