GOP Debate...

[Banksyrules 4,490]

Everyone loves to bash the Bush's. It's been a friendly thread thus far, let's not take it down a path that it doesn't need to go.

It's not a bash those are actual statistics. If she was calling him names then I would agree.

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

Love him or hate him, Trump was the big winner in this debate. After it was over, no matter which candidate was being discussed, Trump's name came up more often than that candidate's name. And there is no such thing as bad publicity. The media is pushing America TOWARD Trump while trying to do the opposite. I find it amusing.

 

And, while The Donald is NOT a Republican, I haven't found the GOP doing much to earn my votes lately. Trump is a capitalist, anti-socialist programs like Obamacare, and all in favor of a strong military, leadership position in the world, and balancing the budget. Even if he's a Democrat in every other way (if I can think of one that matters) he doesn't come off as a bad choice to me. Desperate times call for significant change. My first choice is still Rubio, but I'm getting more and more enthralled with what Trump might accomplish.

 

 

I don't think he won the debate. I felt a lot of shots were made in his direction to which he couldn't properly answer for or just came off as clearly unprepared. I don't think his typical support base (statistically speaking, under educated white people (WaPo Study)) really cared about the debate, but once others start dropping and their support moves elsewhere, nights like last night are going to hurt him.

 

That said, I think the clearly aggressive attempts by Fox (likely in conjunction with the RNC) to trip him up will only push him towards an independent bid which would potentially hand any democratic contender an electoral victory nearly on par with Reagan in 1984. 

[Naturalhoosier 15,407]

It's not a bash those are actual statistics. If she was calling him names then I would agree.

I agree...it's a slippery slope...trying to stop it before it begins.  :)

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

I agree...it's a slippery slope...trying to stop it before it begins. :)

Citations and Context are everything.

[jmsgws 2,181]

So he's against it?  I wasn't looking to jab at him or argue...I was just thoroughly lost.  lol

I think that is what happens when you really don't believe something, but you say it anyway. 

[incrediboy 922]

I don't think he won the debate. I felt a lot of shots were made in his direction to which he couldn't properly answer for or just came off as clearly unprepared. I don't think his typical support base (statistically speaking, under educated white people (WaPo Study)) really cared about the debate, but once others start dropping and their support moves elsewhere, nights like last night are going to hurt him.

 

That said, I think the clearly aggressive attempts by Fox (likely in conjunction with the RNC) to trip him up will only push him towards an independent bid which would potentially hand any democratic contender an electoral victory nearly on par with Reagan in 1984. 

At the age of 65, I've seen every televised debate back to Nixon and Kennedy. I've also seen the mood of the country swing 180 degrees on one election (Carter vs. Reagan). I've seen amazing turns of events (the assassination of Bobby Kennedy) that changed the course of elections. I've seen the country buy lines of crap (Nixon and Humphrey were equally full of them), the country bounce a party on its ear thanks to scandal (resulting the elections of Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush). So I know a little about how the winds blow in these processes. That doesn't make me right, but it does qualify me to digest and regurgitate what I'm seeing and hearing.

 

You sound like Charles Krauthammer trying to debunk the Trump phenomenon.

 

It's not happening based on this debate. The Donald will have to stumble much bigger and much harder. I'm not saying he's not capable of that, but I think you underestimate the number of Americans beyond the WaPo Study who admire someone who gets up there and speaks his mind instead of trying to appease the PC police. And -- probably more importantly -- someone who cannot be bought in the traditional political ways..

 

Here's a wild card nobody's tossed out yet: if Trump is not the GOP candidate, how many billions will George Soros and his ilk offer him to run as an independent and split the GOP vote? And could even the "I can't be bought" guy resist if he's offered, say, 10 billion? 

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

That's the reason I thought Trump not promising to support the GOP if he wasn't chosen is so smart on his part. The media was bashing him for being the only one to do that.

In all honesty, he's making it the case you either give me the GOP or you will without a doubt lose when I run independently. Your best bet is for me to be your candidate.

It's a bold strategy, but it's true... If he runs independent the GOP won't stand a chance in the election. So if he continues. And the GOP wants to win, it's gotta be Trump. He'll garner WAY too many independent votes.

[IUHoosier5 1,483]

What Trump is doing is absolutely going to create a paradigm shift in American politics. This is unprecedented. He's truly a force to reckon with, and no one is going to stop him from saying or doing what he wants. I appreciate what he's doing immensely

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

At the age of 65, I've seen every televised debate back to Nixon and Kennedy. I've also seen the mood of the country swing 180 degrees on one election (Carter vs. Reagan). I've seen amazing turns of events (the assassination of Bobby Kennedy) that changed the course of elections. I've seen the country buy lines of crap (Nixon and Humphrey were equally full of them), the country bounce a party on its ear thanks to scandal (resulting the elections of Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush). So I know a little about how the winds blow in these processes. That doesn't make me right, but it does qualify me to digest and regurgitate what I'm seeing and hearing.

You sound like Charles Krauthammer trying to debunk the Trump phenomenon.

It's not happening based on this debate. The Donald will have to stumble much bigger and much harder. I'm not saying he's not capable of that, but I think you underestimate the number of Americans beyond the WaPo Study who admire someone who gets up there and speaks his mind instead of trying to appease the PC police. And -- probably more importantly -- someone who cannot be bought in the traditional political ways..

Here's a wild card nobody's tossed out yet: if Trump is not the GOP candidate, how many billions will George Soros and his ilk offer him to run as an independent and split the GOP vote? And could even the "I can't be bought" guy resist if he's offered, say, 10 billion?

Less trying to debunk and more approaching it from a statistics and historic stand point. I don't insinuate that the group of people he represents are significant in number or importance (they are) I just think that, once candidates start dropping their support is more likely to go to other candidates and narrow Trumps advantage.

More importantly my argument stems that his language is more likely to (proportionally) galvanize more support for the opposition (in a general election) than it is to create new votes for him/his party. In the vacuum that is a primary, his strategy has the potential to be effective, but I contend he is creating more net enemies than friends.

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

Not really a fan of Trump though he is light years ahead of our current leader. I think there are 3-4 better GOP options. I can honestly see Trump running 3rd party and splitting the Republican vote much the way Perot did.

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

At the age of 65, I've seen every televised debate back to Nixon and Kennedy. I've also seen the mood of the country swing 180 degrees on one election (Carter vs. Reagan). I've seen amazing turns of events (the assassination of Bobby Kennedy) that changed the course of elections. I've seen the country buy lines of crap (Nixon and Humphrey were equally full of them), the country bounce a party on its ear thanks to scandal (resulting the elections of Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush). So I know a little about how the winds blow in these processes. That doesn't make me right, but it does qualify me to digest and regurgitate what I'm seeing and hearing.

 

You sound like Charles Krauthammer trying to debunk the Trump phenomenon.

 

It's not happening based on this debate. The Donald will have to stumble much bigger and much harder. I'm not saying he's not capable of that, but I think you underestimate the number of Americans beyond the WaPo Study who admire someone who gets up there and speaks his mind instead of trying to appease the PC police. And -- probably more importantly -- someone who cannot be bought in the traditional political ways..

 

Here's a wild card nobody's tossed out yet: if Trump is not the GOP candidate, how many billions will George Soros and his ilk offer him to run as an independent and split the GOP vote? And could even the "I can't be bought" guy resist if he's offered, say, 10 billion? 

I certainly think he could be the nominee but dont think he has a shot to be President. The last two elections have taught us that 50% plus of Americans want the gubment to give them something and the Donald ain't about to give hand outs.

[incrediboy 922]

I certainly think he could be the nominee but dont think he has a shot to be President. The last two elections have taught us that 50% plus of Americans want the gubment to give them something and the Donald ain't about to give hand outs.

If the giveaways continue we'll be Greece on steroids (where did I hear that?)

 

So it's critical that someone who can turn the spending thing around attains that power. The "gimmes" will always vote Democrat because that party panders to them. As I stated earlier, Rubio is my first choice, but I don't think he'll be looked upon as a handout guy either...nor would any of the GOP candidates, Kasich possibly the only exception. And I'd trust him since he's been able to balance Ohio's instabilities. But I don't think he's going to get the nomination.

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

If the giveaways continue we'll be Greece on steroids (where did I hear that?)

 

So it's critical that someone who can turn the spending thing around attains that power. The "gimmes" will always vote Democrat because that party panders to them. As I stated earlier, Rubio is my first choice, but I don't think he'll be looked upon as a handout guy either...nor would any of the GOP candidates, Kasich possibly the only exception. And I'd trust him since he's been able to balance Ohio's instabilities. But I don't think he's going to get the nomination.

 

I think Rubio has a solid chance. From the look of last night he's incredibly polished and, with that, unlikely to make the kind of gaff that can end a campaign. He's also got the best antidote to the immigration debate, given that he point to the gang of 8 legislation he helped draft (though he has backed away from it since). The issue he's going to find is that a solid, polished candidate has a hard time making noise in a campaign filled with people who really shouldn't be there (contradictory as that is). Controlling the immigration debate is probably going to be the key to the GOP having a chance and I doubt anyone outside of Rubio has the finesse. 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,822]

I could get behind Rubio. His comment about Hillary Clinton not being able to lecture him in a debate about living paycheck to paycheck because he lived it could be important. It's hard to seem genuine when she condemns the rich while being worth $140 million. The nominee needs to be someone who can actually get people excited to go out and vote. I see a lot of people staying home come election day if Jeb Bush is the Republican candidate.

[Defenserocks28 393]

I certainly think he could be the nominee but dont think he has a shot to be President. The last two elections have taught us that 50% plus of Americans want the gubment to give them something and the Donald ain't about to give hand outs.

And yet, Trump has gladly accepted 4 handouts in the form of bankruptcy protection...and yes, I know we are talking about corporate bankruptcy and not personal, but there's no denying it helped him financially.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

And yet, Trump has gladly accepted 4 handouts in the form of bankruptcy protection...and yes, I know we are talking about corporate bankruptcy and not personal, but there's no denying it helped him financially.

I actually thought he addressed that perfectly. He took advantages of the laws in this country. Same thing EVERY other smart person would do in his situation. If it's legal, do it. He's making those points that a lot of that shouldn't be legal with loopholes and what not.

People want to point fingers and say he filed bankruptcy 4 times, it was the right business move each time. Filing bankruptcy isn't what most non business people think it is.

[Josh 12,553]

I could get behind Rubio. His comment about Hillary Clinton not being able to lecture him in a debate about living paycheck to paycheck because he lived it could be important. It's hard to seem genuine when she condemns the rich while being worth $140 million. The nominee needs to be someone who can actually get people excited to go out and vote. I see a lot of people staying home come election day if Jeb Bush is the Republican candidate.

His comment is about to get destroyed on PolitiFact though.  Dude's been bad with money for a while, using Florida taxpayer dollars (mine) on stupid crap.  I don't really trust him, he feels like a pander to his GOP bosses.  I'd rather have one that panders to the taxpayers.

 

I'm not sure who that is yet, but I like Carson best of the bunch.  I can't figure Trump out enough to decide.  Maybe like him, maybe hate him.  Definitely a polarizing person.

[Defenserocks28 393]

I actually thought he addressed that perfectly. He took advantages of the laws in this country. Same thing EVERY other smart person would do in his situation. If it's legal, do it. He's making those points that a lot of that shouldn't be legal with loopholes and what not.

People want to point fingers and say he filed bankruptcy 4 times, it was the right business move each time. Filing bankruptcy isn't what most non business people think it is.

Nor is "receiving handouts."  But to your point of "EVERY other smart person would do what he did in his situation"...sure, but it drives me nuts that there is no outrage over the fact that corporate welfare (aka, tax breaks) are about double that of public welfare (Cato Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_welfare#Cato_Institute).  We hear all about how John Smith took his food stamps and probably bought beer with it, but never about how some Boeing Exec snorted a substance in a bathroom with his huge bonus, thanks to all the legal loopholes helping Boeing avoid taxes and secure record profits.  I get outrage over John Smith, he could be the next door neighbor, so it's easy to identify.  Corporate tax loopholes are more ambiguous and the negative effects not as clearly delineated; but they are about 2X more detrimental.  

 

Sorry, I'll drop the rhetoric.  I don't mean to politicize this discussion. 

 

Regarding the debate in general, was very entertaining.  I'll give Fox credit, they asked tough, pointed questions that didn't leave room for ambiguity.  Now, whether or not the politicians actually answered the questions is another story.  Overall, I hope that line of questioning continues on both sides, up to, and including, the national debates.  

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

Carson seems like a nice guy, and everyone just loves the thought of a Washington outside, but his utter lack of political experience and acumen would make him A) A carpet for congress to walk all over and B) a liability in the office. You can be brilliant, but there is no substitute for experience. 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,822]

His comment is about to get destroyed on PolitiFact though.  Dude's been bad with money for a while, using Florida taxpayer dollars (mine) on stupid crap.  I don't really trust him, he feels like a pander to his GOP bosses.  I'd rather have one that panders to the taxpayers.
 
I'm not sure who that is yet, but I like Carson best of the bunch.  I can't figure Trump out enough to decide.  Maybe like him, maybe hate him.  Definitely a polarizing person.

Are your thoughts on Rubio pretty common among the people in Florida?