I'm worried about in-state recruiting.

[Beowulf50 816]

There is no reason that we can not be an all around good team this year. I think we will do a lot of good things! If we don't then I guess I will join some of the pessimists on this board, they should know who they are..... Negative all the time. Man I would like to say more, but don't want to ruffle any feathers.

I see in TB what I saw in VO at the Derby classic a hard nosed competitor, who wants to win and who will drive his teammates to do the same. We also have senior leadership and that should go along way this year.

I'm very excited about this year and cannot wait for the season to start!

Go IU!!!

[Banksyrules 4,793]

No excuses this year.

[JSHoosier 20,213]

No excuses this year.

The excuses still won't stop.  We should've been saying no excuses before now.

[recker222000 1,010]

The excuses still won't stop. We should've been saying no excuses before now.

There wont need to be excuses. I expect 28-32 wins this year. We have all the pieces for a deep deep run.

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[Alford Bailey 12,384]

28-32 wins. Those are some serious expectations.

[JSHoosier 20,213]

28-32 wins. Those are some serious expectations.

Especially with a coach that has never won 30.

[MikeRoberts 7,006]

Especially with a coach that has never won 30.

28-32 wins? Wow, would love that but don't think we will even be top 3 in the conference.

Edit, meant to quote Recker

[Oladipo 130]

Fire Fred Glass

[Old Friend 8,389]

Absolutely agree with the principle, but disagree about Vonleh. Vonleh was (is) a great natural talent, but his game was very immature when we had him. Saw us feeding the post to Vonleh, invariably with negative results. Noah's court vision was not good at all, or maybe he wasn't coached on the basics of passing out of the post. Either way, it was a disaster when it happened. Vonleh was barely 18 as a freshman, and IMO, had a transient attitude from day one. HE is an example of an out of state recruit that did not work out. If he'd stayed a few years, it would have been a success, but that's not where his head was at.

 

Holt showed much better instincts, and Bryant has the reputation of being a willing passer; maybe this year. It would be a nice change.

 

All of that having been said, our ball security and ball movement was so much better last year that any post improvement would be gravy.

 

I know it's been beaten to death, but defensive awareness, defensive guard play, and some (any?) kind of defensive presence at the rim will open so many possibilities for this year's team. Moreover, those improvements are far more necessary than an active post game.

I thought Crean made the same mistake with Vonleh he made with Zeller.  In the half court, Crean put him on the block way too often, and didn't utilize his athletic ability in the high post nearly enough.   It drove me daffy when he finally put Zeller in the high post against Syracuse, and then asked him to drive every time.   First possession of that game, he drove and had his shot blocked. He makes that jumper a couple of times, it would have been a completely different game.   Butler beat that zone a couple years earlier with a 6'1" player at the foul line making jumpers.  Opened everything else up.  Crean had to see that film, and he was in the same conference with Syracuse for a few years....and still didn't have a clue how to beat it.    That was evident after exactly one possession.  I don't expect him to utilize Bryant in the most effective way.  Maybe I'll be surprised.   Zeller never developed a jumper because he was never asked to take it, and Vonleh was a good shooter who all too frequently was planted on the low block with a weak 18 year-old body playing against grown men.   When he was able to step out on the floor, he was a capable shooter, but unable to put up consistent numbers the way Crean used him.

 

Holt is a solid basketball player, limited only by his size.   

 

I don't mean to bring up old business, however your comment about Vonleh and "natural talent" sort of affirm my original point and I'll use your words in the hope you might understand a little more.  He had ball skills but an immature, incomplete game.   True for many kids on the east coast because that's how they play growing up.   Vonleh was a kid I had no problem recruiting because of his talent level, but the point's the same.   With talented kids around the midwest who have grown up playing basketball around here, that kind of immaturity is rare.  Most of the kids recruited from this area are very smart and fundamentally developed players who HAVE been taught to pass from the post.  Who HAVE been taught about spacing and positioning.   Who HAVE been taught where their team mates are on the floor so their vision is more developed.   Vonleh, like many players from the east coast, had great ball skills and was terrific at the "sport," but was not so good at the "game."    I'll agree we need mature, smart players no matter where they're from; but I don't agree that we ever have to leave the area to find the 3 and 4 star kids like that, and I still say kids who come here prepared for the Big Ten and have an understanding of the rivalries have a leg up on kids who don't.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

The excuses still won't stop. We should've been saying no excuses before now.

No excuses has been said every year for the past 3 years.

[Old Friend 8,389]

No excuses has been said every year for the past 3 years.

Until Crean takes accountability for his team and until someone holds him accountable, excuses will be the easy way out.  Heck, I saw some fans last season commenting about how Crean had to "start over" when he got here and that people needed to be patient.   All he has are excuses.  There's no reasonable justification for a guy finishing 8th and 7th place in the Big Ten in his 6th and 7th seasons at Indiana University.   None.   He's coached for 16 years and has exactly two conference finishes above 4th.   He's at best a middle of the road coach in his own conference and the historically most elite school in the Big Ten.  But here he sits....with a job.  And a team that should be very good.   Given Indiana's history, they'll give him an extension, and we'll be bad again in 2016-17 because we'll lose a bunch of talent and be "re-building" again.   So one good season in 4 will be "good enough," and Crean will be the first in line talking about how young we are and speaking in platitudes like he always does.   The problem is and will be the replacement list is a one man list; and until that one man is ready to take the job, Indiana will be stuck in neutral unless it commits to excellence again.   

[RBB89 3,497]

Fire Fred Glass

Its these types of insights that keep me coming back here.

[Stuhoo 80,781]

I thought Crean made the same mistake with Vonleh he made with Zeller.  In the half court, Crean put him on the block way too often, and didn't utilize his athletic ability in the high post nearly enough.   It drove me daffy when he finally put Zeller in the high post against Syracuse, and then asked him to drive every time.   First possession of that game, he drove and had his shot blocked. He makes that jumper a couple of times, it would have been a completely different game.   Butler beat that zone a couple years earlier with a 6'1" player at the foul line making jumpers.  Opened everything else up.  Crean had to see that film, and he was in the same conference with Syracuse for a few years....and still didn't have a clue how to beat it.    That was evident after exactly one possession.  I don't expect him to utilize Bryant in the most effective way.  Maybe I'll be surprised.   Zeller never developed a jumper because he was never asked to take it, and Vonleh was a good shooter who all too frequently was planted on the low block with a weak 18 year-old body playing against grown men.   When he was able to step out on the floor, he was a capable shooter, but unable to put up consistent numbers the way Crean used him.

 

Holt is a solid basketball player, limited only by his size.   

 

I don't mean to bring up old business, however your comment about Vonleh and "natural talent" sort of affirm my original point and I'll use your words in the hope you might understand a little more.  He had ball skills but an immature, incomplete game.   True for many kids on the east coast because that's how they play growing up.   Vonleh was a kid I had no problem recruiting because of his talent level, but the point's the same.   With talented kids around the midwest who have grown up playing basketball around here, that kind of immaturity is rare.  Most of the kids recruited from this area are very smart and fundamentally developed players who HAVE been taught to pass from the post.  Who HAVE been taught about spacing and positioning.   Who HAVE been taught where their team mates are on the floor so their vision is more developed.   Vonleh, like many players from the east coast, had great ball skills and was terrific at the "sport," but was not so good at the "game."    I'll agree we need mature, smart players no matter where they're from; but I don't agree that we ever have to leave the area to find the 3 and 4 star kids like that, and I still say kids who come here prepared for the Big Ten and have an understanding of the rivalries have a leg up on kids who don't.

 

 

I think I've got it:

 

We agree on a lot: that we need "mature, smart players no matter where they're from."

 

We agree that there is a savings of resources when we find them nearby.

 

We agree that CTC has, ahem, "mixed relations" with local coaches, and that a bigger local effort could improve that reputation.

 

We disagree that there is a higher success rate at finding mature, smart players when we bring in a local kid.

We disagree when you say that Painter has had more success at this task than Crean.

 

Does that about cover it?

[JSHoosier 20,213]

No excuses has been said every year for the past 3 years.

If that's true there's sure been a lot of excuses made.

[Old Friend 8,389]

I think I've got it:

 

We agree on a lot: that we need "mature, smart players no matter where they're from."

 

We agree that there is a savings of resources when we find them nearby.

 

We agree that CTC has, ahem, "mixed relations" with local coaches, and that a bigger local effort could improve that reputation.

 

We disagree that there is a higher success rate at finding mature, smart players when we bring in a local kid.

We disagree when you say that Painter has had more success at this task than Crean.

 

Does that about cover it?

Yeah.  I don't think I said Painter has had more success in that context.  I simply meant his recruiting is focused here and I think that's a wise strategy.  I don't think he'll ever be able to consistently recruit this area the way Indiana could if Indiana really focused, but if he continues to focus locally while Crean doesn't, I think it puts him in position to succeed, and you really can't argue with the results.   Without Zeller, Crean's record against Purdue is 0-8, while Purdue's had a roster loaded with local kids.

 

I think there's a reason Michigan State spends so much time and energy within 4 hours of their campus.   Same with Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio State; and it's tough to argue against their results the last several years.   I think there's a reason those schools recruit Indiana so heavily, and why Steve Alford still recruits here coaching in Los Angeles.  I've had lots of conversations with coaches across the country, and it's basically a given that kids from midwest are taught and grow up playing a brand of basketball that's valued and desired by college coaches.  I'll believe that as a general truth until I see different results than I've seen.  

 

 "Local" kids isn't a blanket statement.   No player automatically has a monopoly on smart and mature based on where they're from.   Jeremy Hollowell, for example, was a very lazy player who worked almost exclusively on ball skills.  He either wasn't coached or didn't take coaching to make him the kind of player Indiana needed.  Conversely, Colin Hartman, who isn't nearly the athlete Hollowell is, has become a very valuable player for Indiana based on the way he plays, and kids like Hartman are recruited from Indiana and the surrounding area every year.   Glue guys who do the dirty work and understand the little things.   Not sure where else in the country gets a label like that.   I don't think anywhere.  

 

Kids from the local area is only part of my point.  You still have to recruit the right ones.   I just think there are more per capita locally, and I don't understand the focus on kids who don't have any idea of the culture or expectations at Indiana.  That will always baffle me no matter how wrong you think I am.

 

We can disagree about that, and I think it's a fun debate.   I just don't know why it has to get personal sometimes if people disagree.    

[recker222000 1,010]

Especially with a coach that has never won 30.

This team has all the pieces to win big. Lights out shooters and we added a stud in the middle.

28-32 wins? Wow, would love that but don't think we will even be top 3 in the conference.

Edit, meant to quote Recker

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[mdn82 25,510]

This team has all the pieces to win big. Lights out shooters and we added a stud in the middle.


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We will hope but that is mighty optimistic for a Crean coached team.

[recker222000 1,010]

Sometimes yoy have enough talent to hide bad coaching.

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[GloryDays 5,920]

Sometimes yoy have enough talent to hide bad coaching.

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Sometimes yoy have enough talent to hide bad coaching.

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I really don't think so.

Calipari had the most talented team to come along, maybe ever and was clearly out coached by Ryan.

And I really think he is a better coach than Crean as much as it pains me to say.

We never get the players he does so wheres that leave us?

[recker222000 1,010]

He is a bettet coach then crea but thats not saying much. The zeller team had enough talent to still do well and i suspect this one does as well. Now winning a national title requores good coaching. That is something we will never see with crean as coach.

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