Possible Reason For The 2 Year Slide--The Failed Movement

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

The last 2 seasons have been tough for IU basketball fans. Just two seasons before this one, we had finally won a Big Ten title, were ranked #1 in the nation, had made 2 sweet 16's in a row, and then the wheels came off.  Why? We are all quick to blame Coach but let me make another suggestion. To put it bluntly, "The Movement" was a Dud. The cornerstone for the last 2 seasons was supposed to be our much heralded recruiting class of Yogi, Perea, Hollowell, Jurkin, and Patterson who were sophomores last year and juniors this year.  Yogi and Perea (this year) have been solid, but 3/5 of the class or 60% of the class did not meet the high expectations placed upon them.  Hollowell, Jurkin, and Patterson were supposed to be high major talent but they did not pan out and are now at mid-major or lower schools. Jeremy Hollowell who OSU and everyone wanted is now at Georgia State.  Peter Jurkin somewhat due to injury is now at East Tennessee State.  Ron Patterson due to academics transferred to Syracuse and only averaged 2.6 points and 1.7 assists in 14 minutes per game for the Orange this year.  Patterson has now transferred again to IUPUI. My point is they left a huge hole in our recruiting and in our program.  It is easy to blame Coach for recruiting them but they were all highly recruited so all the recruiting services and other great college coaches were wrong about them too. Coach should not be blamed for injuries or academic issues either. Boeheim could not get Patterson to perform. My point is simply that The Movement was a dud and we have been recovering from it every since.  Just another possible reason to consider for the 2 year slide IU has experienced.  What's your thoughts Hoosier Nation?

[Hoosier116 318]

I still make a comment from time to time where I just say to my friends watching the game "Hey guys, remember the movement?" And we have a good chuckle. It was a hyped up class when really it shouldn't have been. Yogi was a talent deserving of the hype but we should have (and I'm sure some of you did) quell the enthusiasm over the others. Perea needed and still needs a lot of work (though he is getting there, finally). Jurkin never seemed to have a chance with injuries and lack of hand eye coordination. And please don't get me going on Hollowell. I loved what he could've been and who knows the behind the scenes stuff but I'm just disappointed he didn't pan out. Don't forget too that having Cody be basically our only recruit from the year before didn't help either.

[Alford Bailey 12,292]

No doubt the movement was a disappointment. We all can agree on that.  But, we missed on so many recruits since that time. That is on Coach, IMO. This years team was plenty talented, a roster with lots of 4-5 star kids. But, we played low mid major level D and tanked when it counted losing like 10 of 15 at the end of the season. Thats on Coach as well. We blamed Sampson for 6 years after he left, lets not do that with the movement.

[Beachfront Property 619]

One of the reasons "The Movement" was so hyped was because it gave us hope when we were not very good. I remember looking past guys like Oladipo, Watford, and Hulls thinking...just wait until "The Movement" shows up. I was wrong.

 

I started to notice something maybe wrong when all of those guys joined the same AAU team and the second best player on the floor was Eron Harris.

 

That being said, "The Movement" may have some responsibility for the last two years but Crean recruited them and Crean coached them.

[Hutch89 2,939]

Love the thread, Rebel!  Glad you're back with interesting takes on this stuff.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

Interesting take. Definitely didn't think of it like this but you are right. Movement actually set us back a bit with their performance. Yogi is the only player is that group to live up to their hype.

Perea was decent this year, but no where near his hype level.

[sirhoosierlot 2,512]

REBEL COMIN IN HOT!!!! Good to have you back.

Great post. I remember how excited we all were to get that class. I even had a sticker lol. That was a huge class as well. We really put a lot of stock into the future of the team with those guys.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

For all of the Indiana misses, which ones would have fit in the best here at Indiana with our system?

I'm bummed about missing on Harris, Mcgary, Lyles, etc. but to make me feel better who are you glad we didn't get?

[MikeRoberts 6,864]

REBEL COMIN IN HOT!!!! Good to have you back.

Great post. I remember how excited we all were to get that class. I even had a sticker lol. That was a huge class as well. We really put a lot of stock into the future of the team with those guys.

good talent and character evaluation would have avoided all those things. How was our staff so far off on 80% of them? Like not even close to being anything remotely close to what we needed at IU...

[8bucks 6,209]

Dakich who was coaching his sons AAU team during that time mentioned he thought that class had some issues. I remember him saying this well before they hit campus and wondered who he meant.

You are going to miss from time to time but with in state kids you should have a leg up due to relationships with HS and AAU coaches. The red flags were there with Hollowell (we debated whether his motor would be enough here). Ron's changing of AAU teams and HS grades were also discussed and Jurkins injuries began around his sophomore year in HS.

Creans was recruiting at a high level at this point (Blackman, Lyles, Hartman and DD had committed prior to the movement) and had a team on the rise. He could have been more selective than he was.

I do get that all programs have kids that miss and you cannot hit all the time. A lot of people like to credit Crean for finding diamonds in the rough and developing kids as well as bringing in high level kids. He is often credited for being an excellent recruiter and yet there are a lot of misses like what we saw in the 2012 class.

I have been saying the same thing however about how the 2012 class really set us back. That combined with Roth, Creek, Remy and Fisher leaving also hurt. No doubt the first three in that list may not have been all BT level guys but we have also struggled mightily because we have not had veteran leaders on the team since Hulls, CWat and Elston left.

When you are winning like we were early in the 2012-13 season Crean deserved (and received) a lot of credit. When you can't sustain that success he is rightly getting proper criticism. Neither were fully his doing but he is charged with putting a consistent winner on the floor capable of competing for the BT title every year in the same way OSU, MSU and Wisconsin does. We you don't do that the criticism increases. Izzo, Matta and Bo can have a drop off year now and then (though they do not drop as far as we have) because they have earned street credit. Crean has not. In fact, Crean carries the "baggage" of complaints Marquette posters warned us about.

I too get tired of the constant criticism for Crean but equally tire of those that like to throw out praise like he is a great recruiter, he is great at finding diamonds in the rough and developing players. I don't care if you want to use the Wisconsin model (recruit locally and develop kids over their career) or the Duke model (recruit nationally and compete with a young roster). We just have to do a better job of being cons item and when good we have to do a better job than getting to the sweet sixteen.

When you don't win consistently and when your teams constantly fade down the stretch (I went and looked at his teams over his career and two have performed better at the end if the year) criticisms will follow.

[AZ Hoosier 6,187]

The last 2 seasons have been tough for IU basketball fans. Just two seasons before this one, we had finally won a Big Ten title, were ranked #1 in the nation, had made 2 sweet 16's in a row, and then the wheels came off. Why? We are all quick to blame Coach but let me make another suggestion. To put it bluntly, "The Movement" was a Dud. The cornerstone for the last 2 seasons was supposed to be our much heralded recruiting class of Yogi, Perea, Hollowell, Jurkin, and Patterson who were sophomores last year and juniors this year. Yogi and Perea (this year) have been solid, but 3/5 of the class or 60% of the class did not meet the high expectations placed upon them. Hollowell, Jurkin, and Patterson were supposed to be high major talent but they did not pan out and are now at mid-major or lower schools. Jeremy Hollowell who OSU and everyone wanted is now at Georgia State. Peter Jurkin somewhat due to injury is now at East Tennessee State. Ron Patterson due to academics transferred to Syracuse and only averaged 2.6 points and 1.7 assists in 14 minutes per game for the Orange this year. Patterson has now transferred again to IUPUI. My point is they left a huge hole in our recruiting and in our program. It is easy to blame Coach for recruiting them but they were all highly recruited so all the recruiting services and other great college coaches were wrong about them too. Coach should not be blamed for injuries or academic issues either. Boeheim could not get Patterson to perform. My point is simply that The Movement was a dud and we have been recovering from it every since. Just another possible reason to consider for the 2 year slide IU has experienced. What's your thoughts Hoosier Nation?

At the risk of being accused of Crean bashing, I will simply ask this question:

Who evaluated and recruited this group of underachievers? Doesn't that, too, fall on the coach?

That is a serious, legitimate question. I really want to know the answer.


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[AZ Hoosier 6,187]

I have been saying the same thing however about how the 2012 class really set us back. That combined with Roth, Creek, Remy and Fisher leaving also hurt. No doubt the first three in that list may not have been all BT level guys but we have also struggled mightily because we have not had veteran leaders on the team since Hulls, CWat and Elston left.

Again, it was Crean that told Roth that there was no room for him. I believe the same was true of Creek. And we were all shocked when Remy suddenly decided to go - I suspect because he feared for lack of playing time with the movement coming in. I blame Crean for that mess, too.


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[Uspshoosier 44,555]

Again, it was Crean that told Roth that there was no room for him. I believe the same was true of Creek. And we were all shocked when Remy suddenly decided to go - I suspect because he feared for lack of playing time with the movement coming in. I blame Crean for that mess, too.


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remy played his sophomore season with the movement guys here. He transferred right before 2013 class arrived ( must of thought stan was going to take his minutes. Lol)

[NRT137 316]

One of the reasons "The Movement" was so hyped was because it gave us hope when we were not very good. I remember looking past guys like Oladipo, Watford, and Hulls thinking...just wait until "The Movement" shows up. I was wrong.

I started to notice something maybe wrong when all of those guys joined the same AAU team and the second best player on the floor was Eron Harris.

That being said, "The Movement" may have some responsibility for the last two years but Crean recruited them and Crean coached them.

I think it was over hyped like this says. Ron Patterson, hanner, and jurkin and hollowell had nice highlight reels, but just weren't giving in to Crean and what he needed out of them, or what any coach would need, which was excellent team play, smart play, and low turnovers. Perea is a bricklayer, hollowell was creating for himself and as a result had many turnovers, jurkin also a bricklayer and awkward, and Patterson never made it to iubb

[8bucks 6,209]

Again, it was Crean that told Roth that there was no room for him. I believe the same was true of Creek. And we were all shocked when Remy suddenly decided to go - I suspect because he feared for lack of playing time with the movement coming in. I blame Crean for that mess, too.


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I agree. For those that will respond that Remy partied too much I understand but the fact remains that we have struggled recently without veteran leadership.

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

As many of you know, I am not a big Tom Crean fan. I don't have anything personal against the man; I'm sure he's a nice guy, good father, devoted husband. I don't like his personality, as it relates or shows itself on the court or in post game pressers but that's just my opinion. I'm sure he wouldn't like me either.

 

Whether we talk about "The Movement" or any other recruiting class he's brought in, the success of failure of it must rest on his shoulders. You can talk all you want about how the players need to do this or do that, but if you've recruited players who're questionable in their work habits, questionable in their off the court judgement, marginal in talent or a poor fit for your system, that fault is yours, not theirs. "The Movement" may be the most visible example of Tom Crean's poor judgement, but it really doesn't stop there. Each year, there are transfers of perfectly good players who simply didn't work out as he planned. Either he misjudged their talent before they got here, or he failed to develop that talent upon their arrival; it can only be one or the other. Ultimately, there's no doubt in my mind that Crean looks at potential recruits as nothing more than an metaphorical extension of the current bench, parts that are interchangeable each year with anyone currently on the roster and who's development has been lacking.

[tortex28 379]

Personally, I think losing Vonleh to the NBA too early then with Fisher transferring hurt us more than anything. If those two guys would have stayed a lot of these issues could have been masked because of a strong frontcourt presence.

[WindyCitySource 600]

Personally, I think losing Vonleh to the NBA too early then with Fisher transferring hurt us more than anything. If those two guys would have stayed a lot of these issues could have been masked because of a strong frontcourt presence.

 

The sudden departure of Fischer was brutal. That dude would have at least been at IU for 3 years and had all of the opportunities in the world to play and develop as a Hoosier. Losing him left a huge hole in the future front-court that was only worsened when Vonleh jumped (too early?) to the NBA. You can't just go out and find a new Luke Fischer right away. Not a lot of guys with that size come out of high school ready to play.

 

In regards to The Movement, it's obvious that the reality did not live up the hype. We got an All-B1G PG out of it, but I think Yogi was the guy everyone was most sure about anyways. Hollowell was a disappointment. Buss didn't show up. Peter couldn't stay healthy and Hanner's development has been slow (and hampered by injuries). However, the obvious missing piece to the roster this season was a serviceable big man. Peter Jurkin was never going to be that guy, and I don't think reasonable fans expected him to be. We had Cody Zeller as the do-it-all big man in Crean's system. Then, we were supposed to have Luke Fischer and Hanner Perea the following year to handle the front-court. 

 

So I agree completely... the Movement was 70% bust. But Fischer's and Vonleh's early departures had more of an impact on the team's inadequacies this past season. 

 

It took Crean an extra year but he finally found someone even better in Thomas Bryant. And with the way Hanner has developed in the last year, provided he can stay healthy, he should be a solid player as a 4 in his senior season. 

[8bucks 6,209]

The sudden departure of Fischer was brutal. That dude would have at least been at IU for 3 years and had all of the opportunities in the world to play and develop as a Hoosier. Losing him left a huge hole in the future front-court that was only worsened when Vonleh jumped (too early?) to the NBA. You can't just go out and find a new Luke Fischer right away. Not a lot of guys with that size come out of high school ready to play.

In regards to The Movement, it's obvious that the reality did not live up the hype. We got an All-B1G PG out of it, but I think Yogi was the guy everyone was most sure about anyways. Hollowell was a disappointment. Buss didn't show up. Peter couldn't stay healthy and Hanner's development has been slow (and hampered by injuries). However, the obvious missing piece to the roster this season was a serviceable big man. Peter Jurkin was never going to be that guy, and I don't think reasonable fans expected him to be. We had Cody Zeller as the do-it-all big man in Crean's system. Then, we were supposed to have Luke Fischer and Hanner Perea the following year to handle the front-court.

So I agree completely... the Movement was 70% bust. But Fischer's and Vonleh's early departures had more of an impact on the team's inadequacies this past season.

It took Crean an extra year but he finally found someone even better in Thomas Bryant. And with the way Hanner has developed in the last year, provided he can stay healthy, he should be a solid player as a 4 in his senior season.

The problems I have with this still point back to recruiting strategy.

Luke left mid year and Crean admitted to not being surprised by this. For a guy that over recruits every year, as soon as you suspect Luke may leave then go big man shopping.

Noah was on the lottery boards nearly all season. Even if Noah said he was coming back, Crean should have anticipated the pull might be too strong and that he might go. Again since over recruiting is the standard go out and get a replacement. Especially combined with Luke leaving.

Lastly you point out how hard it is to bring in a big. I agree so he should be over recruiting with bigs not wings annually. Not lowly ranked bigs until we have a staff that can develop but kids that can play soon.

[Hoosier116 318]

It's not just one class that derailed the last 2 years.  There has been a multitude of issues.  I also agree that Noah being so talented early on was awesome (obviously with his play) but hurt us because now he became a for sure 1 and done which we did not need.  The Fischer issues were frustrating too, especially with my understanding that he left because of teammate issues.  A head coach oversees everything and absolutely all of this falls on Crean's shoulders one way or another.  But along with that the successes have to be acknowledged too.  While the movement failed he has put together some gems along with the failings. We need continuity for sure...I am rambling