Recruiting Momentum

[JSHoosier 19,819]

It's deeper than records. Indiana is the vehicle like you said re: Stevens. Crean has actually been in the Big Ten and knows the league like a veteran should. He has a style of play that is appealing, fun to play in, and successful. He has a demonstrated ability to recruit the kind of basketball players IU hasn't seen since the early 90's. That's a lifetime now. He develops players and is known in basketball circles for having legendary practices. They're precision. His in game tactical management is not elite. But it doesn't have to be. Those decisions are often arbitrary, and players on the floor have a much higher importance in whether those decisions actually bare out. I, personally, choose to see where Indiana can go with Crean and not where Crean has been with Marquette. I'm truly not the blind loyalist. I just have first hand knowledge of this coach's leadership and I can't ignore that. IU would be foolish to let him go at this juncture. Down the line it is a much different conversation if Indiana fails to consistently be a top 10-15 team. But now? We'd look like idiots considering we just won a Big Ten title.

He has a challenging situation in front of him and the process is being eased by his ability to develop a certain attitude within this team, a certain style of play. But it is a challenge nonetheless, and we'll see if he can outrun the mob. I am betting he can and will due to this freshmen class of Holt, Blackmon, Johnson.

I'm not just looking at Marquette, I'm looking at the entirety of his 15 full seasons.  He's never won consistently, and that title was only his second conference title in those 15 years.  That's not very good.  Those 15 years say Indiana won't go far with Crean.

 

You can choose to go off what you think he's capable of, I prefer to look at what he's actually proven he's capable of over the course of 15 years and it doesn't look good.

[Uspshoosier 45,029]

According to rabjohns we r in davon Dillard's top 5. ( Iu, purdue, California , creighton, Pittsburgh)

[87ashtonhoosier 150]

I believe Crean has recruited good players, but the problem is that he fails to recruit players that compliment each other. Recruiting five great shooters is great if one never needs a ball handler, rebounder, defensive stud. If you look back on the IU champs of he past, many of the former didn't have great pro careers, or even play NBA. That's because former coaching staffs understood the importance of role players, meaning guys that didn't have to play all the time, but we're good in specific situations, eg., Brian Sloan. Brian's primary function was to set screens, that's it, set screens for shooters and ball handlers. Brian is one example, I could list dozens of roles assigned to past players, each recruited not to be a star, but to serve a specific function that complemented the team.
Our style of play(NBA stand around the perimeter and try to take it one on one) is not conducive to recruiting players that will win national championships. IMHO, we have moved away from strategic recruiting, and toward what I refer to as 'buffet' recruiting, going after popular choices with a shotgun approach, hoping pure athleticism will win out.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

I'm not just looking at Marquette, I'm looking at the entirety of his 15 full seasons. He's never won consistently, and that title was only his second conference title in those 15 years. That's not very good. Those 15 years say Indiana won't go far with Crean.

You can choose to go off what you think he's capable of, I prefer to look at what he's actually proven he's capable of over the course of 15 years and it doesn't look good.

The fallacy that gets thrown around here all the time is: "can you imagine if this coach had IU's resources?... He'd be a contender every year" and maybe that was the hope with Crean, but it hasn't panned out like that.

If his record was elevated because of what he has at his disposal here in Indiana ie. in state talent, fan base, etc. then I would consider keeping him. However, he's been given bigger opportunities and had the same results.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

So many excuses for why he missed on guys. Fact is we don't have a guy over 6'8" that can produce at a level above the hyper. This is on crean, the future looks absolutely horrible for the squad unless you want a middle of the pack B10 team

The future doesn't look horrible at all

[mdn82 25,510]

The fallacy that gets thrown around here all the time is: "can you imagine if this coach had IU's resources?... He'd be a contender every year" and maybe that was the hope with Crean, but it hasn't panned out like that.

If his record was elevated because of what he has at his disposal here in Indiana ie. in state talent, fan base, etc. then I would consider keeping him. However, he's been given bigger opportunities and had the same results.

Bigger opportunities and IU's resources? I don't follow.

[87ashtonhoosier 150]

I believe Crean has recruited good players, but the problem is that he fails to recruit players that compliment each other. Recruiting five great shooters is great if one never needs a ball handler, rebounder, defensive stud. If you look back on the IU champs of he past, many of the former didn't have great pro careers, or even play NBA. That's because former coaching staffs understood the importance of role players, meaning guys that didn't have to play all the time, but we're good in specific situations, eg., Brian Sloan. Brian's primary function was to set screens, that's it, set screens for shooters and ball handlers. Brian is one example, I could list dozens of roles assigned to past players, each recruited not to be a star, but to serve a specific function that complemented the team.
Our style of play(NBA stand around the perimeter and try to take it one on one) is not conducive to recruiting players that will win national championships. IMHO, we have moved away from strategic recruiting, and toward what I refer to as 'buffet' recruiting, going after popular choices with a shotgun approach, hoping pure athleticism will win out.

Is my mic on?

[mdn82 25,510]

Is my mic on?

Either put clappy or Crean will win a title and you will get a response. The rest of what you put will be forgotten however.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

#3- How do his manic-psychotic clapping mannerisms help out IU positively in any way? Please explain. Do they make his team play more poised and confident? (Joke)

I was at the IU-UofL game when Crean received a warning for going outside the coaches box and Louisville fans at the garden went wild, meanwhile I was embarrassed. When you have X-number of Louisville fans laughing at your coach for acting like a high school coach in one of the biggest bball venues in the world it helps change your perspective.

How old are you, 12? You REALLY get brought down by the actions and comments by Louisville fans?

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,939]

According to rabjohns we r in davon Dillard's top 5. ( Iu, purdue, California , creighton, Pittsburgh)

interesting. Always heard Purdue lead when he was at Bowman Academy. Haven't heard much in a while but he is a very good player. Moved into top 100 in some recruiting services. Scorer. Also thought he had some personality concerns but not exactly positive what they are.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

Bigger opportunities and IU's resources? I don't follow.

One would think that with Indiana's resources Tom Crean's record the past 7 years would show an increase in success. Compared to his time at MQ. There have been none.

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

I believe Crean has recruited good players, but the problem is that he fails to recruit players that compliment each other. Recruiting five great shooters is great if one never needs a ball handler, rebounder, defensive stud. If you look back on the IU champs of he past, many of the former didn't have great pro careers, or even play NBA. That's because former coaching staffs understood the importance of role players, meaning guys that didn't have to play all the time, but we're good in specific situations, eg., Brian Sloan. Brian's primary function was to set screens, that's it, set screens for shooters and ball handlers. Brian is one example, I could list dozens of roles assigned to past players, each recruited not to be a star, but to serve a specific function that complemented the team.
Our style of play(NBA stand around the perimeter and try to take it one on one) is not conducive to recruiting players that will win national championships. IMHO, we have moved away from strategic recruiting, and toward what I refer to as 'buffet' recruiting, going after popular choices with a shotgun approach, hoping pure athleticism will win out.

Sloan Screen #45

[ccgeneral 38,084]

interesting. Always heard Purdue lead when he was at LaLu. Haven't heard much in a while but he is a very good player. Moved into top 100 in some recruiting services. Scorer. Also thought he had some personality concerns but not exactly positive what they are.

He went to Bowman Academy. Knocked a teammate unconscious there and I seen he was ejected from a game a few weeks or so ago. Plays on the same team as Yakwe.

[JSHoosier 19,819]

The fallacy that gets thrown around here all the time is: "can you imagine if this coach had IU's resources?... He'd be a contender every year" and maybe that was the hope with Crean, but it hasn't panned out like that.

If his record was elevated because of what he has at his disposal here in Indiana ie. in state talent, fan base, etc. then I would consider keeping him. However, he's been given bigger opportunities and had the same results.

There is no guarantee with any coach.  Crean never won consistently, and there was some of that hope when he was hired.  I loved the hire but I didn't take a closer look at his coaching history at that point; I knew he went to a Final Four and that was the basis of my excitement, if I'd looked at his record closer I wouldn't have been as excited about the hire.  We're in a situation where we're asking him to do something he's never proven himself capable of over the better part of 20 years

 

Some coaches have won consistently with fewer resources than IU offers.  Look at Gregg Marshall, he's won everywhere he's been.  He's always competing in his conference, he's finished outside the top 3 a mere 3 times in 16 full seasons, albeit in smaller and weaker conferences.  There's a definite reason to believe he could win consistently with the resources here even if it's not guaranteed.  I like Marshall, I think we'd be a good fundamental basketball team, but he's not a guarantee and I wouldn't consider him a home run either; let's face it he's been coaching a year longer than Crean and his tournament record is about the same which isn't particularly good.

 

That's just an example though.  The point remains though, if a coach has won consistently with fewer resources (Marshall) I have more reason to believe they can do it here than I do a coach that has never won consistently (Crean).

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,939]

He went to Bowman Academy. Knocked a teammate unconscious there and I seen he was ejected from a game a few weeks or so ago. Plays on the same team as Yakwe.

yeah, just corrected the LaLu to Bowman. It's been a while. Good insight. Interesting we are in his top 5. Won't gamble on Lyle, but will for Dillard?

[mdn82 25,510]

One would think that with Indiana's resources Tom Crean's record the past 7 years would show an increase in success. Compared to his time at MQ. There have been none.

I am pretty sure he has improved his record from year one until today since all 7 years are accounted for. I think he maybe even has more than doubled success of years 1 and 2 of the 7 years.

[mdn82 25,510]

There is no guarantee with any coach. Crean never won consistently, and there was some of that hope when he was hired. I loved the hire but I didn't take a closer look at his coaching history at that point; I knew he went to a Final Four and that was the basis of my excitement, if I'd looked at his record closer I wouldn't have been as excited about the hire. We're in a situation where we're asking him to do something he's never proven himself capable of over the better part of 20 years

Some coaches have won consistently with fewer resources than IU offers. Look at Gregg Marshall, he's won everywhere he's been. He's always competing in his conference, he's finished outside the top 3 a mere 3 times in 16 full seasons, albeit in smaller and weaker conferences. There's a definite reason to believe he could win consistently with the resources here even if it's not guaranteed. I like Marshall, I think we'd be a good fundamental basketball team, but he's not a guarantee and I wouldn't consider him a home run either; let's face it he's been coaching a year longer than Crean and his tournament record is about the same which isn't particularly good.

That's just an example though. The point remains though, if a coach has won consistently with fewer resources (Marshall) I have more reason to believe they can do it here than I do a coach that has never won consistently (Crean).

That is more than fair.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

One would think that with Indiana's resources Tom Crean's record the past 7 years would show an increase in success. Compared to his time at MQ. There have been none.

A reasonable person wouldn't see that, if they looked at the 7 seasons

[NoahW35 459]

He went to Bowman Academy. Knocked a teammate unconscious there and I seen he was ejected from a game a few weeks or so ago. Plays on the same team as Yakwe.

My roomate went to bowman and has told me this story along with a few others. Didn't know we were really recruiting him

[Alford Bailey 12,350]

Yea, but what about our recruiting momentum?