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[biteoftheapple 4,115]

I dont buy in to the fact Z would have come, no matter the coach. His brothers strayed away is my indicator.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

I dont buy in to the fact Z would have come, no matter the coach. His brothers strayed away is my indicator.

I'm not saying he would have come for "any" coach, but a good coach. Who was coaching and what was the program like when his brothers were recruited?

[TheStillman 991]

I agree that he could do great things at another school. I think he'd be best suited at a school where he can constantly recruit from the rivals 80-150 range. He'd then be able to get kids to buy into his program, and he wouldn't have to worry about player turnover (which he's bad at managing). He's also really good at being the underdog and upsetting some great teams. (He's proven he's not a good coach when his team is being hunted).

My argument that I would make... I think that Zeller would have came to IU even if Crean wasn't the HC. And that any "good" coach would have had a number 1 ranking with him. So I don't know much credit I want to give Crean for "rebuilding" the program.

 

A lot of "ifs" in your analysis.  I think the one thing you can give Crean credit for is he built an elite team from 2011-13, he did that on his own with his guys.  He hasn't been a good manager of the program since but I think you have to give the guy full credit for that.

 

Crean getting Zeller to come to IU was never a given.  He went up against the big boys without any success to his name at IU.  

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

Elite teams get more than 2 wins in the NCAA tourney.

[TheStillman 991]

To get back on topic...

 

In order to make the tournament it is looking like the Hoosiers will need to win 10 of the final 16.  I will break those next 16 into four 4 game segments:

 

First four: vs. OSU vs. PSU @Illinois vs Maryland 

We need to win 3 of 4, not important which 3 just need 3 wins

 

Second Four: @OSU @Purdue vs Rutgers @Wisconsin

The toughest remaining stretch.  If we win two it would be HUGE but I think we go 1-3

 

 

Third Four: vs. Michigan @Maryland vs. Minnesota vs. Purdue

Very important stretch.  Have to win 3 of 4.

 

 

Fourth Four: @ Rutgers @Northwestern vs. Iowa vs. MSU

Again you have to win 3 of 4.  Our two easiest road games remaining.  Win those two and split the final 2 at home.

 

There you have it.  Our road to the tourney.  It would put the Hoosiers at 21-10 (11-7).  Thoughts?

[TheStillman 991]

Elite teams get more than 2 wins in the NCAA tourney.

 

Not always.  The team IU upset in 2002 in the tourney was pretty elite.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

To get back on topic...

In order to make the tournament it is looking like the Hoosiers will need to win 10 of the final 16. I will break those next 16 into four 4 game segments:


Second Four: @OSU @Purdue vs Rutgers @Wisconsin
The toughest remaining stretch. If we win two it would be HUGE but I think we go 1-3


There you have it. Our road to the tourney. It would put the Hoosiers at 21-10 (11-7). Thoughts?

How important will a win at Purdue be come tournament time? Likewise, how much will a loss effect our chances? (It seems like Purdue may be decent this year)

[TheStillman 991]

How important will a win at Purdue be come tournament time? Likewise, how much will a loss effect our chances? (It seems like Purdue may be decent this year)

 

Any road game in the B1G is favorable for our chances but I am saying win two in that stretch is huge mainly because it is a numbers game at this point with wins.  I think we need to win 10 of the final 16 and to do that if we go 1-3 in that stretch it will involve going 3-1 in every other stretch which is a tall order.  

[lillurk 3,763]

Not always.  The team IU upset in 2002 in the tourney was pretty elite.

Exactly. Coaches get too much credit for success and too much blame for losses.

 

Sometimes you catch an unfavorable matchup, an underseeded team, or a team playing it's best game all year.

 

Bobby Knight went to five Final Fours in 29 years. Was he not "elite" during those other 24 seasons? Should he have been fired when the '79 team missed the tournament for the second time in three seasons? Is there something special that championship coaches have that Bobby didn't have 24 times? Unless that "something special" is both high-level talent and significant good fortune, the answer is no.

 

It wasn't his fault Scott May got hurt in '75 any more than it was Crean's fault Jordy was hurt in '13. I realize those players aren't of equivalent quality but it's not hard to imagine that a healthy Hulls might've changed the Syracuse game quite a bit.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

I'm not saying he would have come for "any" coach, but a good coach. Who was coaching and what was the program like when his brothers were recruited?

Luke? He stayed in state anyway, went to Notre Dame. He started in '05 so he would have been recruited by Davis. Certainly we expressed interest since I think he was a 4-star/top 100 prospect even if he didn't pan out. His early recruiting would have taken place in the glory of the 2002 run, but the writing started appearing on the wall right about when he would have committed.

Similar story on Tyler. 5-star/top 10 prospect/burger boy. His first year was... 2008 I think. So, he would have been recruited by Sampson and made his commitment early in Sampson's last year. Plus, he went to UNC so it's not like it was some scrub program. 

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Elite teams get more than 2 wins in the NCAA tourney.

 

Nope.

Elite teams SHOULD get more than 2 wins in the NCAA tourney---but that is not always the case.

 

Every year there are elite teams that get upset in the NCAA's without getting more then 2 wins!

 

IU is not even close to being the first top seeded team to get upset in the sweet 16.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

Nope.
Elite teams SHOULD get more than 2 wins in the NCAA tourney---but that is not always the case.

Every year there are elite teams that get upset in the NCAA's without getting more then 2 wins!

IU is not even close to being the first top seeded team to get upset in the sweet 16.

No... But they ran an article in the newspaper analyzing our team. According to the data, we had the most underachieving team in NCAA history.

Also, I re-watched the Syracuse game and jordy was hurt bad and couldn't dribble with his right hand. Remy played point in the tourney the year before, so I don't know why Crean didn't make an adjustment and put Remy in. I loved Hulls, but he can still be a leader from the bench.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

No... But they ran an article in the newspaper analyzing our team. According to the data, we had the most underachieving team in NCAA history.

Also, I re-watched the Syracuse game and jordy was hurt bad and couldn't dribble with his right hand. Remy played point in the tourney the year before, so I don't know why Crean didn't make an adjustment and put Remy in. I loved Hulls, but he can still be a leader from the bench.

 

So we are the most underachieving team in history because a newspaper said so?

 

LOL!  I read that article ----I thought it was bogus because it did not take into account that one of our key players was playing hurt.
 

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

To be clear---Not blaming you southernindianahoosier---blaming the newspaper article!

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

This may sound like blasphemy to some---but I don't rank that IU team as one of the all-time greats.

 

Jordy was defensively limited and injured----Yogi was young----Cwat played hard in spurts---and Zeller was a little weak and soft around the rim.

 

No gripes with Vic.

 

They were better collectively then they were individually----playing as a team was their strength.

 

But I have seen much better teams talent-wise that did not make it past the sweet 16.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Gotta get back to work before I get tarred and feathered!

[southsidehoosier 5,048]

How is that Duke team in 2002 that we beat not the most underachieving team in the tourney. They had like 3-4 future NBA players on the team with Dunleavy, Boozer and Williams.

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

How is that Duke team in 2002 that we beat not the most underachieving team in the tourney. They had like 3-4 future NBA players on the team with Dunleavy, Boozer and Williams.

Because they made it to the Final Four.... I don't think any team that plays in the Final Four is going to get a underachieving label... Including UK this year.... It is not a given that any team in any given year will automatically win it all... thats why you play the games.

[TheStillman 991]

Because they made it to the Final Four.... I don't think any team that plays in the Final Four is going to get a underachieving label... Including UK this year.... It is not a given that any team in any given year will automatically win it all... thats why you play the games.

 

They lost in the sweet 16 to IU.

[TheWatShot 14,166]

They lost in the sweet 16 to IU.

 

I think he meant the year before, when they won it all with some of the same players.