I'M TIRED OF IU SUCKING!!!!!

[NOLA Hoosier 1,267]

This season needs to be taken one game at a time. Maybe I'm being overly-positive, but if they know what the problem is, they should be able to fix it, i.e. defense.

 

Not that I'm taking CTC's word on anything, but he recognizes what needs to be focused on. We've got the shooting, we've got the talent, we just need the defense for a complete game. If Hanner and Troy can get with the program and step up, if Blackmon continues to dazzle, if Yogi stops over-dribbling, if Hoetzel develops into a Sheehey-esque 6th man, if Holt can get some minutes and develop...

 

That's a lot of "if's," but maybe then, just maybe, we may have a tournament-bound team. But that is a lot of "if's."

[Golfman25 5,864]

The problem is there is no consistent basketball philosophy that I can figure out.  He has multiple players with the same basic skill sets.  What type of player do you want and how will you use them?  What is their role - as a freshman . . . as a senior?  How do they fit the system?  Someone said above, when IU was "back" the offense was fluid and balanced.  Last year it wasn't.  This year it doesn't look like it.   

 

Since there is no overriding philosophy, Crean ends up with a very inconsistent roster.  Last year, no three point threats.  This year all three pointers, no inside game.  No upper class leadership - guys who have been thru "the program" to teach the young kids.  We only had 6 returning scholarship players.  Theoretically, next year we have no room for freshman.  The lack of balance creates roster turnover and inconsistency.   

 

If he was a GM in the NBA, he would be gone.    

[hoosierinIll 335]

Really? He went from being a walk-on to being the star of the team and got a free education. Maybe he cared more about playing basketball than the name on his jersey.

So Marlin left a full ride scholarship spot at D1 IPFW where he started as a freshman to transfer to IU for a walk-on spot because he wanted to be a Hoosier, right? Then he transferred to a D2 NAIA school on a partial scholarship at a school where education costs are right at 30,000 a year for playing time? Maybe he wanted to play for a team where they collectively played for the name on the front of the jersey instead of being worried about PT? I'm sure Marlin knew there would be more talented players in front of him at IU. IU used to be a place where playing for the name on the front and representing the state truimped all other motives. IMO, not the case with the current culture at IU.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

So Marlin left a full ride scholarship spot at D1 IPFW where he started as a freshman to transfer to IU for a walk-on spot because he wanted to be a Hoosier, right? Then he transferred to a D2 NAIA school on a partial scholarship at a school where education costs are right at 30,000 a year for playing time? Maybe he wanted to play for a team where they collectively played for the name on the front of the jersey instead of being worried about PT? I'm sure Marlin knew there would be more talented players in front of him at IU. IU used to be a place where playing for the name on the front and representing the state truimped all other motives. IMO, not the case with the current culture at IU.

No. I'm sure it was Crean's fault.

[AZ Hoosier 8,089]

Not directed at you, but people bring up Hollowell and his lack of improvement all of the time.  The funny thing is wasn't that 2009 class considered a bust 2 years in?  Cwat, Hulls, Mo Creek, and Nick Williams were supposed to be the big contributors.  Mo was constantly hurt (through no fault of his own).  Cwat got pushed around in his first couple seasons regularly.  Hulls had flashes, but had trouble finding his shot consistently with VJ3.  Williams transferred.  That was a top 10 class that took 3 seasons to really show what it had.  Have we seen a class that was decent last 3 years since?  That is what I mean by roster construction.

 

IMHO, the issue is the creaning. Which of Crean's recruits have stayed for 4 years? Of all of Crean's recruits, only these guys stayed 4 years:

 

Derek Elston

Jordan Hulls

Verdell Jones III

Matt Roth

Will Sheehey

Christian Watford

 

* Kory Barnett

* Jeff Howard

*Daniel Moore

*Tom Pritchard

*Taylor Wayer

* Walked-on for one or more of their 4 years at IU, and players that probably were not going to get a lot of playing time here or elsewhere.

 

All of the 4 year scholarship players had some level of success. None were outstanding or superstars. Those that came closest IMO were Hulls, Sheehey, CWat and maybe VJIII. When you add in the others who left for the NBA (Cody, Vic and Noah), you have a good nucleus around which to build. But of course, Cody, Vic and Noah left, so there would be no building around them.

 

Then factor in those who were creaned - including Roth, Mo Creek and the others, and what I see is a lack of trust. Getting kids to buy in requires a commitment on both sides (the kids' and the program's). Without that commitment, then we are left with a lack of trust. Kids aren’t sure there will be a place for them after the first or second year. They start wondering "what if someone better becomes available?".

 

And now it’s an ongoing situation - with the over signing by 1, 2 or more. It’s a "chicken and egg" deal. Is Crean over signing because kids leave? Or do kids leave because Crean is over signing? I submit that it does not matter which is the cause and which is the effect - the bottom line is that kids come here either as a "1-(or 2-)and done" or with the suspicion in the back of their mind that they may be run off after a year or two. And I think that costs us some talent - kids who may want to come here and wear the candy stripes, but who don’t want to deal with the drama.

 

With this kind of turnover on the roster, you get no seniors, no senior leadership, and you lose the understanding of what Indiana Basketball is (supposed to be) all about. And it shows on the floor.

[jonz44 810]

[quote name="sddowning" post="110962" timestamp="1417440250"]When you say "6'4" and athletic" are you talking about Oladipo? No one else come to mind. The offense ran pretty well with Zeller Cwat and Hulls. No of which meet you criteria of Creans typical player. Now I will say at times last year the offense became let Yogi and all Yogi. He was very ball dominate. Don't get me wrong I love Yogi and that wasn't his fault but Crean should have figured out ways to get Vonleh the ball more often. Find shots for other plays instead of Yogi trying to break someone down. On a side note if Hollowell was recruited and ranked off of potential he showed in AAU then how come Crean couldn't help develop him. He had no problem bringing Vic along. Can't imagine Hollowell was as driven as Victor but he showed no improvement from year 1 to 2. Only difference was minutes played[/quote
I tend to believe Victor's improvement was more a result of his work ethic than Creans coaching.

[AZ Hoosier 8,089]

One more thought. Within certain limitations, talent is not necessarily the deciding factor between "suck" and "not suck". For years the Butlers and VCUs and similar schools competed with many of the big time schools despite having less talent. They had heart. They had desire. They played with swagger and with a chip on their shoulders - they were out to prove that they belonged. They had a coach who could motivate them and who could get every bit of effort out of their somewhat limited talent. For years, RMK had that same reputation - that the TEAM was more effective and better that the sum of its parts. It was once said that if RMK had a week to prepare for an opponent, IU would usually win - even if undermanned. 

 

My point to all of this rambling is simply this - recruit talented kids. Get the best kids (talent-wise and character-wise) and then coach the heck out of them. So far, we have had talent and we have had less talent. But in almost all cases in the Crean era, we play to the level of the competition - we play against an opponent rather than against our potential. Players like Cody, Vic, Jordy and at times, CWat and Sheehey were able to dig deep and find that extra. Players like Hollowell, Remy, Hanner and Noah could not (or would not).

[hoosierinIll 335]

No. I'm sure it was Crean's fault.

You're probably right. That's why he makes over 3 mil a year, because the responsibility has to fall somewhere. Is it fair? Probably not. But IU basketball is not about mediocrity. In the past it has stood for trust, team work, hard work, excellent coaching and the opportunity to represent and win for a state that values basketball at all levels. That is a big responsibility. Crean has had 7 years behind the wheel... Expectations are not being met, so yes...it is his fault.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

So basically Hollowell (motivational issues), Perea (low basketball IQ, still learning the game), and Fischer (didn't fit the off court culture of IU)?

 

You must love Crean? Keep defending him no matter what. I'm not sure what exactly what the problem with Fischer was. We can only speculate. Hanner is a junior. That means this is his third year in the indiana program. We are not going to blame Crean for Hanners his low basketball IQ and still learning? How many years does he need?

 

Where did you get that I love Crean from that post???  Where did I defend him in that post???

[OliviaPope40 6,701]

We also lost Austin Etherington too.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Where did you get that I love Crean from that post??? Where did I defend him in that post???

New season, new members of the Spanish Inquisition accusing everyone of loving Crean.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

We also lost Austin Etherington too.

Thank god. Have you watched his play at Butler?

[OliviaPope40 6,701]

Thank god. Have you watched his play at Butler?

Yes I have seen his play at I'm not impressed but he has good players in front of him. OT I'm going to go ahead and this now if Butler plays the way they did against UNC and Georgetown when playing us we will lose.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

New season, new members of the Spanish Inquisition accusing everyone of loving Crean.

 

Haha, I've been extremely supportive of coach in the past but can't find anything in that post that hinted at giving coach a pass.  There has to be major change with the program and soon.  The "We're Back" momentum is gone.  There has to be movement in the direction of regaining our place in the B1G and the next step up on a national basketball scene.

[sddowning 146]

Where did you get that I love Crean from that post??? Where did I defend him in that post???

Sorry I misread the tone of that post. I thought you were blaming the players there. My bad. Misunderstood.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

Sorry I misread the tone of that post. I thought you were blaming the players there. My bad. Misunderstood.

No worries, bro.  Aloha

[OliviaPope40 6,701]

I miss this and now we go back to the days before we had the last part :(

[schoosier 3,524]

Lots of good discussion and some have been mentioned a time or two. What's good to see is that others see the same faults in this program , and others think by pointing them out you are trying the coaching staff in a court of law. God forbid you be critical of a less than stellar head coach that gets paid millions for others to do just that. Programs like UK, UNC, and UCLA have ran off coaches with similar types or better records, and Indiana will finally do the same after this year. I still root for us to win every game but have fully accepted the less than stellar coach we have as it relates to coaching, team building, and character. It is what it is = apathy. What that means for me is when Louisville kicks our a$$ it won't nearly hurt as much as it once did. Or losing to E Washington or any other school for that matter. Does anyone really care at this point except the fundraisers?

[KingPG21 6,587]

New season, new members of the Spanish Inquisition accusing everyone of loving Crean.

Someone accused me of all people of being a part of his "bible thumping fan group". I'm not as down as other fans, but I found that pretty hilarious

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Someone accused me of all people of being a part of his "bible thumping fan group". I'm not as down as other fans, but I found that pretty hilarious

It's not a Bible, it's a massive book of plays that you keep over on the table and never use successfully.