I'M TIRED OF IU SUCKING!!!!!

[8bucks 6,476]

Your opinion is not too far from mine.

Since the rebuild---Crean had one year overachieving/sweet 16--one excellent year with Big Title/top ranking/sweet 16--and one subpar year last year.

He cannot have a less than 20 win season or not make NCAA this year---or it's time for a change.

And--if we make the 20 wins and tourney this year---next year he has to do much better as in top 15 and be a real contender for Big Ten and National Championships. We have a right to expect IU to be a perennial contender as we are still a premier basketball program.

There will be rebuilds with any Coach but we should be a contender for titles every 2-3 years at IU.

I think we need a stellar year this year. An overachieving year like Cody's freshman year.

I think we need our top 7 players back next year and we have to add a starting center that is real threat.

I think he has to have some recruiting momentum back again

Lastly, He really needs a run of 5+ years where we compete for the BT every year (top 3 works for me).

A tall order but had the 2012 class lived up to rankings we would likely be in the middle of such a run now.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

I think we need a stellar year this year. An overachieving year like Cody's freshman year.

I think we need our top 7 players back next year and we have to add a starting center that is real threat.

I think he has to have some recruiting momentum back again

Lastly, He really needs a run of 5+ years where we compete for the BT every year (top 3 works for me).

A tall order but had the 2012 class lived up to rankings we would likely be in the middle of such a run now.

 

The problem is--- The Movement---hasn't been forward---we've gone backward the last couple years---so far. Hope to finally see forward momentum this year!
 

[KingPG21 6,587]

With Stevens couldn't it be argued he was able to find some gems (Hayward, Mack, and to a lesser degree Howard), something we love to give credit for with Vic. Also, towards the end of his tenure he seemed to start landing some higher sought after recruits, Marshall for instance was considered a top 100 recruit

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I think we need a stellar year this year. An overachieving year like Cody's freshman year.

I think we need our top 7 players back next year and we have to add a starting center that is real threat.

I think he has to have some recruiting momentum back again

Lastly, He really needs a run of 5+ years where we compete for the BT every year (top 3 works for me).

A tall order but had the 2012 class lived up to rankings we would likely be in the middle of such a run now.

If "The (Bowel) Movement" lived up to their rankings we would have won a championship in 2012-2013 and been a Final Four threat last year. That class had all the right pieces on paper.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

If "The (Bowel) Movement" lived up to their rankings we would have won a championship in 2012-2013 and been a Final Four threat last year. That class had all the right pieces on paper.

 

Paper is about as far as it got with most of that class.
 

[sddowning 146]

Louisville Louisville Louisville!!! That's when we will know what we really have this year. Tom Crean is on a short leash. No tournament this year and he is gone I think that's obvious. We need someone who can recruit. Tom Crean seems to pull those top 100 players who don't make immediate impact or really ever pan out. Hollowell, Hanner, Stan has had his ups and downs. Fischer never played. Still haven't figured that one out. Crean's players management has always been something I've questioned

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Louisville Louisville Louisville!!! That's when we will know what we really have this year. Tom Crean is on a short leash. No tournament this year and he is gone I think that's obvious. We need someone who can recruit. Tom Crean seems to pull those top 100 players who don't make immediate impact or really ever pan out. Hollowell, Hanner, Stan has had his ups and downs. Fischer never played. Still haven't figured that one out. Crean's players management has always been something I've questioned

 

Really...?  I mean I'm not saying every top 100 recruit he gets pans out but piling on with false statements is just, well it's not founded in fact.

 

Watford and Hulls, didn't pan out right?  1,000 point scorers (they wouldn't have been if not for the rebuild) okay but they were key contributors on a B1G championship team

Zeller, top 100 yeah about him

Yogi... he's playing pretty well

Vonleh

JBJ, RoJo they're both doing pretty well so far

[sddowning 146]

Really...? I mean I'm not saying every top 100 recruit he gets pans out but piling on with false statements is just, well it's not founded in fact.

Watford and Hulls, didn't pan out right? 1,000 point scorers (they wouldn't have been if not for the rebuild) okay but they were key contributors on a B1G championship team
Zeller, top 100 yeah about him
Yogi... he's playing pretty well
Vonleh
JBJ, RoJo they're both doing pretty well so far

Hulls was not top 100 he was ranked as the 34th best PG on ESPN. Not in any way am I saying that Crean fails to get any contribution from his top 100 recruits. It just seems that for whatever reason we have had a good handful of those players fail to live up to expectations or in Luke Fischers case never get the opportunity to play. It's the same thing we are seeing with Emmitt Holt and April. Jurkin was the same thing. Give them an opportunity to play. On the other side Hollowell was given every opportunity to play and from my opinion was awful. I just don't know what whoever did the recruiting of him saw that suddenly was absent during his 2 years at IU

[mdn82 25,510]

Hulls was not top 100 he was ranked as the 34th best PG on ESPN. Not in any way am I saying that Crean fails to get any contribution from his top 100 recruits. It just seems that for whatever reason we have had a good handful of those players fail to live up to expectations or in Luke Fischers case never get the opportunity to play. It's the same thing we are seeing with Emmitt Holt and April. Jurkin was the same thing. Give them an opportunity to play. On the other side Hollowell was given every opportunity to play and from my opinion was awful. I just don't know what whoever did the recruiting of him saw that suddenly was absent during his 2 years at IU

Hollowell was ranked purely on potential and the ability he flashed in AAU. A lot of players like that who never live up to hype. My problem with Crean isn't so much players who come here. I think he does a good job with getting his "ranked" players to play. My problem is his roster construction and utilization of the players he does bring in. Unless the players are 6'4" and athletic, he struggles to fit them into his offense. To me, that is a Crean problem. Not a player ability problem.

[sddowning 146]

Hollowell was ranked purely on potential and the ability he flashed in AAU. A lot of players like that who never live up to hype. My problem with Crean isn't so much players who come here. I think he does a good job with getting his "ranked" players to play. My problem is his roster construction and utilization of the players he does bring in. Unless the players are 6'4" and athletic, he struggles to fit them into his offense. To me, that is a Crean problem. Not a player ability problem.

When you say "6'4" and athletic" are you talking about Oladipo? No one else come to mind. The offense ran pretty well with Zeller Cwat and Hulls. No of which meet you criteria of Creans typical player. Now I will say at times last year the offense became let Yogi and all Yogi. He was very ball dominate. Don't get me wrong I love Yogi and that wasn't his fault but Crean should have figured out ways to get Vonleh the ball more often. Find shots for other plays instead of Yogi trying to break someone down. On a side note if Hollowell was recruited and ranked off of potential he showed in AAU then how come Crean couldn't help develop him. He had no problem bringing Vic along. Can't imagine Hollowell was as driven as Victor but he showed no improvement from year 1 to 2. Only difference was minutes played

[JSHoosier 20,310]

Hulls was not top 100 he was ranked as the 34th best PG on ESPN. Not in any way am I saying that Crean fails to get any contribution from his top 100 recruits. It just seems that for whatever reason we have had a good handful of those players fail to live up to expectations or in Luke Fischers case never get the opportunity to play. It's the same thing we are seeing with Emmitt Holt and April. Jurkin was the same thing. Give them an opportunity to play. On the other side Hollowell was given every opportunity to play and from my opinion was awful. I just don't know what whoever did the recruiting of him saw that suddenly was absent during his 2 years at IU

Hulls's rank varied by service. On scout he was a 4*.

[sddowning 146]

Hulls's rank varied by service. On scout he was a 4*.

Hulls was one of my favorite players and is completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. What I was trying to say is that Crean seems to have a handful of top 100s who can't play or don't play and end up leaving or become average to below average players (Hanner)

[Townie 138]

Hulls was one of my favorite players and is completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. What I was trying to say is that Crean seems to have a handful of top 100s who can't play or don't play and end up leaving or become average to below average players (Hanner)

 

I mean, a lot of that has to do with his inability to develop players and manage the roster (over-recruiting/creaning)

[sddowning 146]

I mean, a lot of that has to do with his inability to develop players and manage the roster (over-recruiting/creaning)

Completely Agree

[mdn82 25,510]

When you say "6'4" and athletic" are you talking about Oladipo? No one else come to mind. The offense ran pretty well with Zeller Cwat and Hulls. No of which meet you criteria of Creans typical player. Now I will say at times last year the offense became let Yogi and all Yogi. He was very ball dominate. Don't get me wrong I love Yogi and that wasn't his fault but Crean should have figured out ways to get Vonleh the ball more often. Find shots for other plays instead of Yogi trying to break someone down. On a side note if Hollowell was recruited and ranked off of potential he showed in AAU then how come Crean couldn't help develop him. He had no problem bringing Vic along. Can't imagine Hollowell was as driven as Victor but he showed no improvement from year 1 to 2. Only difference was minutes played

 

Are you really saying the offense ran through Zeller or Hulls?  Zeller's offense was fast break points or drives from the top of the key getting fouled.  If you can think of one top 50 kid who you can bash Crean for, you may want to look around.  Crean is far more successful at those types than other schools.  Vic wasn't top 100.  Player mentality and drive are the key differences.  Hollowell coming in was far more talented than Vic.  He just didn't care as much as Vic.  Vic was self made.  As for the 6'4" comment, that was more of a reference to him getting his guards in position to score as opposed to bigs under the basket.  He never ran sets for Cody off of the block.  He ran him off of the key or at the free throw line.  Hulls was a spot up shooter.  Cwat was good at trailing a play for his shot.  The offense was balanced and fluid.  You had highly intelligent basketball players who were able to move without the ball.  Again, Crean's biggest fault to me is his roster construction.  The type of player he looks for is just not who you can bank consistency on.  

 

Not directed at you, but people bring up Hollowell and his lack of improvement all of the time.  The funny thing is wasn't that 2009 class considered a bust 2 years in?  Cwat, Hulls, Mo Creek, and Nick Williams were supposed to be the big contributors.  Mo was constantly hurt (through no fault of his own).  Cwat got pushed around in his first couple seasons regularly.  Hulls had flashes, but had trouble finding his shot consistently with VJ3.  Williams transferred.  That was a top 10 class that took 3 seasons to really show what it had.  Have we seen a class that was decent last 3 years since?  That is what I mean by roster construction.

[sddowning 146]

That's exactly my point. Creans players development was no where to be found. He clearly doesn't have to people skills to keep the kids happy while they sit behind upperclassmen. Part of the reason Hollowell and Fischer left I would assume. They didn't see what Crean and playing at Indiana could do for them.

Zeller averages 16.5 ppg his final year. Led the team. Oladipo out scored Watford by one point per game. One whole point. So yeah the offense did run through those guys. I'm not saying Crean knows what he is doing completely. I am saying that Cream can be successful if he gets the players to buy in as he did with Watford Hulls Oladipo Zeller and others. He clearly couldn't do that with the more recent guys which is why they left and or suck

[hoosierinIll 335]

I think the beginning of the end for me was signaled by walk-ons like Marlin, who have grown up dreaming of playing for IU, transferring. This, more than all the other stuff, communicates an internal culture problem to me.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Hulls was one of my favorite players and is completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. What I was trying to say is that Crean seems to have a handful of top 100s who can't play or don't play and end up leaving or become average to below average players (Hanner)

So basically Hollowell (motivational issues), Perea (low basketball IQ, still learning the game), and Fischer (didn't fit the off court culture of IU)?

[sddowning 146]

So basically Hollowell (motivational issues), Perea (low basketball IQ, still learning the game), and Fischer (didn't fit the off court culture of IU)?

You must love Crean? Keep defending him no matter what. I'm not sure what exactly what the problem with Fischer was. We can only speculate. Hanner is a junior. That means this is his third year in the indiana program. We are not going to blame Crean for Hanners his low basketball IQ and still learning? How many years does he need?

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

I think the beginning of the end for me was signaled by walk-ons like Marlin, who have grown up dreaming of playing for IU, transferring. This, more than all the other stuff, communicates an internal culture problem to me.

Really? He went from being a walk-on to being the star of the team and got a free education. Maybe he cared more about playing basketball than the name on his jersey.