College Bball Thread

[HoosierAloha]

Leadership is an easy excuse. We have a senior Hartman, juniors RoJo and JBJ but we lack leadership? All those players have played significant roles from freshman year on. I don't like Crean's model of "everyone needs to be a leader." I don't see a model out there that "everyone is a leader" that works. Even in the elite of the elite spec ops units you have a ranking structure. I would like to see captains and see them shoulder that burden.

[Ranger78]

I wasn't trying to make an excuse. Hartman would help on the floor. Yep you need a leadership chain that this team lacks, which I guess was my point.


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[Ranger78]

I agree the 5 star freshman works, but I'm not sure we're going to win that battle, so I would shift and try a different model. We can't play the 5 star model loosing the recruiting battle and compete. If that doesn't work, I would change my method and go towards the Wiscy and Villanova model.


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[Ranger78]

I've watched Oregon a few times this year and I'm not impressed.


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[HoosierAloha]

I wasn't trying to make an excuse. Hartman would help on the floor. Yep you need a leadership chain that this team lacks, which I guess was my point.


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Without a doubt Hartman not being on the floor hurts but having captains and a "chain of command" does wonders. Crean is huge on "peer leadership" but it flows from the top down. We have a system that doesn't really involve one and dones. In your first year or two you need to learn to follow before you can lead. As an sophomores and juniors you can still lead even if you have older players above you. I just don't see this consistently from Crean coached teams at IU.

[HoosierAloha]

I agree the 5 star freshman works, but I'm not sure we're going to win that battle, so I would shift and try a different model. We can't play the 5 star model loosing the recruiting battle and compete. If that doesn't work, I would change my method and go towards the Wiscy and Villanova model.


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I believe only puke and Duke have won a natty with more than one one and done in the OAD era. We need talented youth but also experienced upperclassman leaders.

[HoosierRob]

Well that butler game is looking pretty tough now.

[Ranger78]

I agree. Leadership is an issue. I think a different model that promotes senior leadership might be the answer (even out the classes). But I agree you can get leadership from many areas, which I don't think this team has yet. You're pointing to Crean and his ideology, which might be the underlying issue. I don't know, but that's a valid point.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

I believe only puke and Duke have won a natty with more than one one and done in the OAD era. We need talented youth but also experienced upperclassman leaders.

The trend is relatively new and UK and Duke's success continue to prove its worth. The Duke model is better in that 1-3 players leave versus 4-6 from UK. Duke returns numerous 5 stars every year. Dukes model is perfect.

We can't compete with them in recruiting so we are forced into a more challenging model, that can certainly work, but brings about more risks and more competition. Instead of being able to act/recruit like a top 5 program, we are relegated to recruit like a top 25 program and hope we can make up the difference in scouting, development, etc.

If we could recruit like Kansas, Duke, Arizona, UK, Crean would do it in a heartbeat because it works and those programs are consistently at/near top each year. The other model has bigger fluctuations and are affected more heavily by early departures/transfers and such.




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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Another model that has impressed me is Gonzaga. A little basketball school, with seemingly little to offer fields a nationally competitive team every year. Good recruiting, great transfer additions.

Indiana should be able to aim higher because we are Indiana, but Gonzaga consistently does more than it ever should. Good every year it seems.


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[Uspshoosier]

Another model that has impressed me is Gonzaga. A little basketball school, with seemingly little to offer fields a nationally competitive team every year. Good recruiting, great transfer additions.

Indiana should be able to aim higher because we are Indiana, but Gonzaga consistently does more than it ever should. Good every year it seems.


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Gonzaga model helps being in a small conference. Before byu joined all they had to compete with was st Mary's. as gonzaga has gotten better they have finally scheduled a tougher non conference. Before this gonzaga was the hardest team to seed each year


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[Ranger78]

I agree the Duke model is perfect. Greatest college coach in the history of the game and 10 McDonald all Americans. Sign me up. I get your point.... IU HAS to make a final four to even think about competing with Duke. Coach K did it 30 + years ago. Can IU get past the sweet 16?


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

I agree the Duke model is perfect. Greatest college coach in the history of the game and 10 McDonald all Americans. Sign me up. I get your point.... IU HAS to make a final four to even think about competing with Duke. Coach K did it 30 + years ago. Can IU get past the sweet 16?


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Have a punchers chance here and there. I get the Duke thought. We aren't Duke. But we are Indiana.
Consider this... Kentucky is considered the pinnacle of NCAAB with Duke over last 10 years, right?
How did Kentucky recruit with Gillespie or Tubby Smith?
Indiana has similar pedigree as UK, and could recruit with the big dogs if we had a Self, Calipari, Pitino, Sean Miller type recruiter. Dirty? Probably. Everyone seems to play the game, even Duke. Idk.

It's frustrating.




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[Ranger78]

My hatred for UK grows by the minute. I'm not sure anything in collegiate sports is more against what college athletes stands for.... I'm sure it's sour grapes on my part, but I hate their whole existence.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Max Hoetzel goes for 15/8 times tonight on 5/12 shooting. 3/8 from 3.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Newest NBAdraft.net.

#29. OG
#43. TB


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[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Newest NBAdraft.net.

#29. OG
#43. TB


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Perhaps we won't be seeing a mass exodus

[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Newest NBAdraft.net.

#29. OG
#43. TB


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i do think our lack of on court success is hindering Creans recruiting. He's never won a postseason tournament. That's some easy easy negative recruiting. 5 stars might only be planning on staying a year but most would like to win an NC in that year. 

[mdn82]

i do think our lack of on court success is hindering Creans recruiting. He's never won a postseason tournament. That's some easy easy negative recruiting. 5 stars might only be planning on staying a year but most would like to win an NC in that year. 

I am not sure of that with certain schools having the recruiting successes they are. I feel like we have to have a plan and commit to it. Just seems we are all over the place lately.


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[HoosierAloha]

I am not sure of that with certain schools having the recruiting successes they are. I feel like we have to have a plan and commit to it. Just seems we are all over the place lately.


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What doesn't feel like we're all over the place with...? Recruiting strategy, recruiting ability, defense, rotations, etc...