Conclusions from HH

[schoosier 3,546]

Agreed. Plus Crean coaches/motivates well from the underdog role. I'm not predicting a top 3 B1G finish, but 9 would probably crush my hopes and dreams and I just really don't see it happening.

Which year did he coach and motivate from the underdog role?
Year 1 1-17, 11th
Year 2 4-14, tied 9th
Year 3 3-15, 11th
Year 4 11-7 , 5th
Year 5 14-4, 1st
Year 6, 7-11, tied 8th
I see 3 underdog years out of 6 and miserable B1G years from all 3. Using these games and taking out all the fluff really puts it in perspective for me. Now, when most experts are picking us to finish 10, do you think they do so based on talent or coaching? Its a game of numbers and Creans got his stats just like the players.

[BlueDevil 9,071]

Which year did he coach and motivate from the underdog role?
Year 1 1-17, 11th
Year 2 4-14, tied 9th
Year 3 3-15, 11th
Year 4 11-7 , 5th
Year 5 14-4, 1st
Year 6, 7-11, tied 8th
I see 3 underdog years out of 6 and miserable B1G years from all 3. Using these games and taking out all the fluff really puts it in perspective for me. Now, when most experts are picking us to finish 10, do you think they do so based on talent or coaching? Its a game of numbers and Creans got his stats just like the players.

I still think year 4 2011-2012 was an underdog year

[Hovadipo 58,145]

Which year did he coach and motivate from the underdog role?
Year 1 1-17, 11th
Year 2 4-14, tied 9th
Year 3 3-15, 11th
Year 4 11-7 , 5th
Year 5 14-4, 1st
Year 6, 7-11, tied 8th
I see 3 underdog years out of 6 and miserable B1G years from all 3. Using these games and taking out all the fluff really puts it in perspective for me. Now, when most experts are picking us to finish 10, do you think they do so based on talent or coaching? Its a game of numbers and Creans got his stats just like the players.

I was mostly referring to 2011-12. When we were an underdog to begin the season then we beat the boys in blue. I'd say he did a pretty good job with a team that didn't have high expectations, but a good deal of talent, just like this year. He's a motivator, a talker, and he always has been. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Experts have their own criteria when picking preseason polls, so what are you going for? We have the talent to break into the top 5 of the B1G this year.

Edit: And for his first 3 years, I think those teams performed just about as well as anyone would expect given the talent, or lack there of. They played hard every single night, and I partially credit Crean's motivational skills for that.

[schoosier 3,546]

I still think year 4 2011-2012 was an underdog year

Not for Indiana basketball. When you have 6/1000 point career scorers on one team which is probably the only time that's ever happened in our history, and finish 5th in the B1G, how were we underdogs? Plus 2 future lottery picks were also 2 of those above. I think we have gotten so use to underachieving when we do make a Sweet 16 we're somehow underdogs. The culture has changed here; instead of expectations we're just like our current coach.

[schoosier 3,546]

I was mostly referring to 2011-12. When we were an underdog to begin the season then we beat the boys in blue. I'd say he did a pretty good job with a team that didn't have high expectations, but a good deal of talent, just like this year. He's a motivator, a talker, and he always has been. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Experts have their own criteria when picking preseason polls, so what are you going for? We have the talent to break into the top 5 of the B1G this year.
Edit: And for his first 3 years, I think those teams performed just about as well as anyone would expect given the talent, or lack there of. They played hard every single night, and I partially credit Crean's motivational skills for that.

My point was trying to figure out how we overachieved as underdogs or quite frankly, as front runners. Not much when its all sad and done. Didn't Lou Watson win a B1G one year?

[Hovadipo 58,145]

My point was trying to figure out how we overachieved as underdogs or quite frankly, as front runners. Not much when its all sad and done. Didn't Lou Watson win a B1G one year?

In my original post, I never mentioned overachieving. Don't twist it. My point was that Crean is better at getting his teams ready when they are the underdog as opposed to the favorite. He is a motivator. He's always come off to me as a guy that would rather have a chip on his shoulder than a target on his back. See: 11-12 vs. 12-13.

[Geometry Hoosier 1,170]

In my original post, I never mentioned overachieving. Don't twist it. My point was that Crean is better at getting his teams ready when they are the underdog as opposed to the favorite. He is a motivator. He's always come off to me as a guy that would rather have a chip on his shoulder than a target on his back. See: 11-12 vs. 12-13.

Good coaches keep their players motivated whether they are the underdogs or the favorite.

[Hovadipo 58,145]

Good coaches keep their players motivated whether they are the underdogs or the favorite.

I agree. And he motivates better from the underdog role...Like I said. I'm not arguing whether he's a good coach or not. But you can tell by watching him that he's more in his element when he isn't the favorite. The same as a lot of people are.

[drewheck 749]

In my original post, I never mentioned overachieving. Don't twist it. My point was that Crean is better at getting his teams ready when they are the underdog as opposed to the favorite. He is a motivator. He's always come off to me as a guy that would rather have a chip on his shoulder than a target on his back. See: 11-12 vs. 12-13.

2011 2012 if you break it down we were underdogs in all of the games we won against ranked opponents Kentucky. Msu both times Michigan both times and Ohio state

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

Not for Indiana basketball. When you have 6/1000 point career scorers on one team which is probably the only time that's ever happened in our history, and finish 5th in the B1G, how were we underdogs? Plus 2 future lottery picks were also 2 of those above. I think we have gotten so use to underachieving when we do make a Sweet 16 we're somehow underdogs. The culture has changed here; instead of expectations we're just like our current coach.

I love 'em, but it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see that Hulls, Watford, Oladipo and Sheehey would not have gotten off to as good of freshman starts as "typical" freshman of their talent levels who were playing on "typical" indiana teams. Our dearth of talent certainly contributed to the scoring output of those guys and maybe that's why with 4 1000 point scorers, we didn't fare any better.

 

You don't get to count what happened after the season was over, you've got to count what was expected before the season started.

 

We beat 3 top 5 teams. That's a hell of an effort for any team.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

You really can't even call our first three years "underdog" years. We hardly had a basketball team. Crean helped motivate guys like Hulls, Watford, Sheehey and Vic to become better players and leaders. He helped put together a great underdog team in 2011-12. 2012-13 we underachieved.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Agree #1CreanApologist----the first three years were not underdog years---they were just plain dog years!

 

I would love to see this year's team overachieve like the 2011-2012 team. That team lost in the sweet 16 to the best team in the country.   I am not so sure the way we were playing that we were not the second best team in the country at that time.  If you will recall UK hit out their butts on their freethrows like they had never done before and never did afterward or we might have beaten them again!

 

If our young guards get the D going--we might be able to do something similar again!

[GloryDays 5,994]

Once Oladipo fouled out the handwriting was on the wall. No one could stay in front of Kidd Gilchrist.

Before that it was anyones game.We did play them tougher than-anyone else in the tourney so I would agree with Reb that at that point we were the second best in the country.

[MikeRoberts 7,400]

What is overachieving for a team with 3 starters returning and burger boys and the rest predominately top 100 players?27 wins?

By no means should winning 20 games or barely making the tourney be considered overachieving.


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[Hoosiers96 912]

What is overachieving for a team with 3 starters returning and burger boys and the rest predominately top 100 players?27 wins?

By no means should winning 20 games or barely making the tourney be considered overachieving.


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Overachieving as far as national expectations go

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

To me overachieving is exceeding the national expectations of the so-called experts and pundits ----for example those who think we will be 9th or 10th in the Big and not make the tournament.  Just like underachieving is doing worse such as our top ranked team a few years ago not making it past the sweet 16.  We have to admit we underachieved that year--- but overachieved the year before.

 

But I do agree MikeRoberts that even overachieving national expectations is not necessarily enough to keep us all happy---it will depend on the degree with which we overachieve. 

 

I personally expect to see a top 6 finish in the Big and an NCAA appearance or I will be yelling for change!