Should we really care about players being "Creaned"?

[GloryDays 5,923]

Or Groced

Or Pitinoed! That  sounds illegal or at least immoral.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

There is literally no such thing as Creaning. Transfers are the industry standard, and we are no different. Oversigning is also becoming standard because of it.

[MikeRoberts 7,077]

lol if you thnk any of those players you named were valuable you might have to look at stats and games they played

LOL, you should take a look at Creeks stats from last year on a team he led to the NCAA tournament... LOL


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[lelgar4 223]

I think "Creaning" is a good thing. Use extra scholarships on less talented players, give them a year or two to develop at a great program and then move on to a program thats more suitable for their skill level. And if they prove to be worth the scholarship and develop well, keep 'em, i.e. Oladipo.

 

Plus they now have the option to stay at IU on academic scholarship if they decide they would rather stay and get a better education than continue elsewhere.

 

Really, whether or not a player gets "creaned" is up to them. If they work hard, in and out of practice, and develop - they'll get to stay.

[jmsgws 2,181]

Use extra scholarships on less talented players

What extra scholarships??  Coach has shown that he almost never has any extra scholarships, and in fact has the opposite problem, hence the term "creaning"

[lelgar4 223]

What extra scholarships??  Coach has shown that he almost never has any extra scholarships, and in fact has the opposite problem, hence the term "creaning"

 

I was talking about Priller and April, should've been more specific there. 

 

Essentially I think that Crean is giving them an opportunity to make themselves better players and either

a ) develop well enough to earn a spot on the team, or

b ) get better opportunities as transfers as opposed to the offers they had in high school.

 

I believe April's only other offer was some school called Word Incarnate or something like that. Perhaps Crean saw more potential in April, either potential to play for IU or just enough that he deserved to play somewhere better than the school that offered him, and gave him a scholarship. 

 

Its kind of like a trial scholarship for these players. But thats just how I see it.

[jmsgws 2,181]

I don't disagree with you  about kids getting better I do think that is part of the game, and more than likely every single coach has had the discussion with players that they are not ____ (You fill in the blank) and it is time to move on.  

For me I cannot separate the oversigning from the creaning.  we know right now (over a year before the next season)  that Coach is going to have to have the discussion with two players that it is time to move on.  So that means that even if every kid develops the way they are supposed to, and works as hard as they are supposed to, and is as good a student as they are supposed to be.  They are gone.  I just don't like that.   We give UK a ton of crap for "renting players" for a year, before they go the NBA.  I don't see much difference in that vs oversigning,  with the exception that we are going after the recruiting scraps instead of the recruiting prime rib.

There is an old saying that "Perception is reality"  in this case the perception of Tom Crean is that he chases the next shiny thing in regards to recruits, and he is more than willing to extend a scholarship (that he doesn't even have) when no other coach  thinks a player is worthy.  Sometimes it works out (Victor being the most shining example)  but more often than not it does not.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I don't disagree with you  about kids getting better I do think that is part of the game, and more than likely every single coach has had the discussion with players that they are not ____ (You fill in the blank) and it is time to move on.  

For me I cannot separate the oversigning from the creaning.  we know right now (over a year before the next season)  that Coach is going to have to have the discussion with two players that it is time to move on.  So that means that even if every kid develops the way they are supposed to, and works as hard as they are supposed to, and is as good a student as they are supposed to be.  They are gone.  I just don't like that.   We give UK a ton of crap for "renting players" for a year, before they go the NBA.  I don't see much difference in that vs oversigning,  with the exception that we are going after the recruiting scraps instead of the recruiting prime rib.

There is an old saying that "Perception is reality"  in this case the perception of Tom Crean is that he chases the next shiny thing in regards to recruits, and he is more than willing to extend a scholarship (that he doesn't even have) when no other coach  thinks a player is worthy.  Sometimes it works out (Victor being the most shining example)  but more often than not it does not.

Or maybe players have had that discussion with him. "Coach, I know I can make it to the NBA at the end of the year" "Coach, am I going to get the playing time I want this year? No? I think I want to transfer at the end of the season" In all honesty, it's very hard to say what conversations are actually happening, but I don't think they are as cynical as many seem to assume.

 

What do you mean, most often it doesn't work out. Priller and April are the first two players that have received scholarships that we all believe are not in line with our expectations and who received no offers from legitimate programs. We literally have not seen this scenario play out during Crean's time here. Players like Etherington, Abell, Jurkin, and the rest that so many are heartbroken over were here because we couldn't pay players to come to IU at the time they committed. 

 

Once again, let us all take a step back and gain some perspective. We have had one extremely disappointing year that stood out from what we've come to expect during Crean's tenure. 2013 was a team that could've won it all, but every single year Crean has been here we have received better and better recruits, won more games, and achieved great accomplishments and notoriety. Last year was the first exception to the consistent improvement from Crean's teams, and many here are talking like last year is the norm. I promise you this year will be an improvement over last year. Crean's teams have consistently improved year over year, and this year will be no different. 

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Lots of interesting takes, but I can't believe some of the things said. Where do people get the idea that Crean is behind all of this? IU's staff was pissed Etherington transferred. He wanted more playing time. It's not like they told him to leave. Remy was told to leave, for valid reasons. Creek wanted more playing time. Marlin wanted more playing time. Luke was homesick. Jeremy wanted a fresh start. It isn't some conspiracy...

 

I don't think anyone is saying having a fluid roster is the goal; but you have to deal with the problems that you face and IU is doing that. I think everyone would prefer having players develop over four years, and IU will do that with the right ones, but just look at the mentality seemingly all over our society.... it's like if you can't hack it in a year or two, it must be the coach's fault, or your teammates, etc. Not many kids stick it out and see things through. We were lucky Christian Watford did.

[Hutch89 2,939]

http://www.insidethehall.com/2014/10/17/roster-turnover-aids-hoosiers-on-and-off-the-court/

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

 

• 

  Alex Bozich Moderator  Brad • 16 minutes ago

  I saw all five games in Canada in person. It's not a stretch to tell you that JB, RJ and NZ are major upgrades over EG, JH and AE.

   

   

   

  SHOCKING! Roster turnover can be beneficial when the players that left weren't good enough.

[Banksyrules 4,860]

• 
  
  
  Alex Bozich Moderator Brad • 16 minutes ago
  
  
  
  
  I saw all five games in Canada in person. It's not a stretch to tell you that JB, RJ and NZ are major upgrades over EG, JH and AE.
  
  
  
  SHOCKING! Roster turnover can be beneficial when the players that left weren't good enough.

I really don't want to take sides but except for nz( not sure), but jb and rj already were way assured their scholarships. At least way before priller and April were awarded it. Besides we all know and u do to that it's April and priller who are on the hot seat for not making the team.




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[FortWayneHoosier 6,218]

LOL, you should take a look at Creeks stats from last year on a team he led to the NCAA tournament... LOL


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ok so one guy out of how many that have left in these past few years? ive lost count on the number of guys that have left at this point, but i would bet you the guys that left this year will do no better else where, so creek was a fluke.....LOL

[Alabaster Thunder 306]

Lots of interesting takes, but I can't believe some of the things said. Where do people get the idea that Crean is behind all of this? IU's staff was pissed Etherington transferred. He wanted more playing time. It's not like they told him to leave. Remy was told to leave, for valid reasons. Creek wanted more playing time. Marlin wanted more playing time. Luke was homesick. Jeremy wanted a fresh start. It isn't some conspiracy...

 

I don't think anyone is saying having a fluid roster is the goal; but you have to deal with the problems that you face and IU is doing that. I think everyone would prefer having players develop over four years, and IU will do that with the right ones, but just look at the mentality seemingly all over our society.... it's like if you can't hack it in a year or two, it must be the coach's fault, or your teammates, etc. Not many kids stick it out and see things through. We were lucky Christian Watford did.

Not to pick any nits, but I had heard Remy chose to leave. Remy and his mom approached Crean several days after Crean had already filed the releasing paper work, pleading for Remy's spot back on the team but was SOL. That spot ended up going to Gordon. Remy did not seem bitter about it, as he came back over the following summer to shoot hoops with the team.

Again, just the way I had heard it, agree with the premise of your post though.

 

Would Remy have helped last year? Don't know about off court, but on court I feel like he would've been better than J Marlin... No offense to the maniac Marlin-ites on here.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Not to pick any nits, but I had heard Remy chose to leave. Remy and his mom approached Crean several days after Crean had already filed the releasing paper work, pleading for Remy's spot back on the team but was SOL. That spot ended up going to Gordon. Remy did not seem bitter about it, as he came back over the following summer to shoot hoops with the team.
Again, just the way I had heard it, agree with the premise of your post though.

Would Remy have helped last year? Don't know about off court, but on court I feel like he would've been better than J Marlin... No offense to the maniac Marlin-ites on here.

Apparently Remy wanted to go, Crean obliged and filed papers, and then Remy tried to back out and stay but it was too late. That's what I had heard.

[Alabaster Thunder 306]

Apparently Remy wanted to go, Crean obliged and filed papers, and then Remy tried to back out and stay but it was too late. That's what I had heard.

exactly

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Not to pick any nits, but I had heard Remy chose to leave. Remy and his mom approached Crean several days after Crean had already filed the releasing paper work, pleading for Remy's spot back on the team but was SOL. That spot ended up going to Gordon. Remy did not seem bitter about it, as he came back over the following summer to shoot hoops with the team.

Again, just the way I had heard it, agree with the premise of your post though.

 

Would Remy have helped last year? Don't know about off court, but on court I feel like he would've been better than J Marlin... No offense to the maniac Marlin-ites on here.

Thanks. Was under the impression he wasn't going to get more chances. That's too bad as I enjoyed watching Remy play. I think Stan will end up being a better player, though.

[coonhounds 9,137]

Thanks. Was under the impression he wasn't going to get more chances. That's too bad as I enjoyed watching Remy play. I think Stan will end up being a better player, though.

stan already has been a better player do u remember Remy he had potential but that is as far as it went also I felt he was better his freshman year than his sophomore and that is never a good sign

[Lt. John McClaine 541]

Remy was one of those guys who was a combo guard but he didn't handle the ball great by breaking down his defender and creating off the bounce, and he didn't shoot it well enough to be a full time Shooting guard, so basically he was a combo guard by default.  He was a good young man and a good student, but to think that he was a blue chipper that got away and will set us back, is not really the case.  If you recall, Remy became available in the Spring Signing Period because he opted out of his commitment to Bradley, and that's how he came to IU.  It will be interesting to see how he does at Xavier this year after sitting out last year.  I think he'll do far better than Austin Etherington will do at Butler.  

[BGleas 7,917]

I wasn't the biggest Remy fan, but nobody is calling him a blue chipper. The question is if last year and this years teams are better with a junior/senior Remy compared to say a freshmen/sophomore Colin Hartman. It's about keeping players around if you're going to invest in developing them, as opposed to constantly having turnover.

Remy was one of those guys who was a combo guard but he didn't handle the ball great by breaking down his defender and creating off the bounce, and he didn't shoot it well enough to be a full time Shooting guard, so basically he was a combo guard by default.  He was a good young man and a good student, but to think that he was a blue chipper that got away and will set us back, is not really the case.  If you recall, Remy became available in the Spring Signing Period because he opted out of his commitment to Bradley, and that's how he came to IU.  It will be interesting to see how he does at Xavier this year after sitting out last year.  I think he'll do far better than Austin Etherington will do at Butler.