Can Indiana be a consistent winner under Coach Crean?

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Yea, don't think anyone is really clamoring for Crean to be coach for life here haha. Pretty much everyone is saying his future here depends on how this year goes. Some are just more optimistic than others. 

[Dalton26 16,892]

[quote name="HoosierHoops1" post="72833" timestamp="1404272687"]Some of you guys are just plain silly[/quote]

And some of you are the biggest problem.


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[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

Eh, Bob Knight's best teams were all stacked with talent.

 

I think Crean is a wildly mediocre coach but a heck of a salesman that manages to fool people, I think last year's team was poorly coached among it's other problems, but let's not act like Bob Knight never had much talent when his best teams were loaded.

You're probably correct, though even during some of his lean years, when talent wasn't there, his teams still played good ball and his coaching alone was worth 7-8 wins, perhaps more.

[CampHoosier 3,697]

I guess my biggest question is: how can we judge if a man can be consistent if he is constantly thrown inconsistencies? His first 3 years were a mess. Then he had 2 amazing years (cue someone mentioning losing in the Sweet 16 over and over and over). Then last year he had four 1,000 point scorers graduate or leave for the NBA. He had a sophomore guard to lead the team and inconsistent play from his returning guys. Did we lose games we should have won? Absolutely. Were most of them his sub patterns? Probably. But with the transfer of Luke, the pouting of Hollowell, and the suspension of HMP, the guy was thrown a lot last year. When he has had consistency, he has consistently won. Let him build us again and regain a hold over the program. 

[Stuhoo 79,626]

I guess my biggest question is: how can we judge if a man can be consistent if he is constantly thrown inconsistencies? His first 3 years were a mess. Then he had 2 amazing years (cue someone mentioning losing in the Sweet 16 over and over and over). Then last year he had four 1,000 point scorers graduate or leave for the NBA. He had a sophomore guard to lead the team and inconsistent play from his returning guys. Did we lose games we should have won? Absolutely. Were most of them his sub patterns? Probably. But with the transfer of Luke, the pouting of Hollowell, and the suspension of HMP, the guy was thrown a lot last year. When he has had consistency, he has consistently won. Let him build us again and regain a hold over the program. 

 

 

^^Every time this conversation is re-hashed, may I have permission to link to this post?^^ In one paragraph you said A LOT.

_________________________________________________________________________________

 

It's almost as if from 2011, when we went from a 'predicted ninth in a 12 team B1G' to a top 15 team til now, some people think that CTC has become considerably less skilled as a coach.

 

We started three freshmen last year and had real internal problems. I blame CTC for recruiting the internal problems and not fostering a positive team environment. That led to some BIG wins because we also had high-level talent, and some maddening losses. 

 

This year we also have pretty darn good talent. Will the personalities mesh?  Dang, I hope so.

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

I guess my biggest question is: how can we judge if a man can be consistent if he is constantly thrown inconsistencies? His first 3 years were a mess. Then he had 2 amazing years (cue someone mentioning losing in the Sweet 16 over and over and over). Then last year he had four 1,000 point scorers graduate or leave for the NBA. He had a sophomore guard to lead the team and inconsistent play from his returning guys. Did we lose games we should have won? Absolutely. Were most of them his sub patterns? Probably. But with the transfer of Luke, the pouting of Hollowell, and the suspension of HMP, the guy was thrown a lot last year. When he has had consistency, he has consistently won. Let him build us again and regain a hold over the program. 

I can appreciate what you're saying, but too often the issues you mention as having been thrown at him were in fact conditions that his approach to coaching and recruiting helped to foster. Coaches everywhere have malcontents, inconsistent play from Freshmen, defections, etc, etc; so why should Crean be given a pass or an excuse for his inability to handle it? His two "amazing" years were only amazing in light of our recent history of utter failure. Would we have been just as excited about a trip to the sweet 16 in 1975, 1976, or 1980? Even in 1987, when we weren't expected to win it all, we would have been surprised and disappointed to have lost in the sweet 16. Nice that we got there? Yes. Amazing? No. 

To paraphrase the Peter Principle of business: "Tom Crean has reached the level of his own incompetence".

[323SGrant 1,176]

I have thought that as well, that CTC is an example of the Peter Principle. We discussed the PP in my Freshman Sociology class at IU.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

And some of you are the biggest problem.

You're right. I cost us 4 victories last year. Thank goodness your opinion was around so we finished above 500.

[Dalton26 16,892]

[quote name="HoosierHoops1" post="72894" timestamp="1404324248"]You're right. I cost us 4 victories last year. Thank goodness your opinion was around so we finished above 500.[/quote]

That made absolutely no sense. Try again jr.

The problem is your and other peoples way of thinking. Hey we made a sweet 16 and we were ranked #1 so that's good enough. Who needs to win when we can just be ok? Right? The loser mentality is a joke and I've never understood how people are ok with having it.


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[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

I can appreciate what you're saying, but too often the issues you mention as having been thrown at him were in fact conditions that his approach to coaching and recruiting helped to foster. Coaches everywhere have malcontents, inconsistent play from Freshmen, defections, etc, etc; so why should Crean be given a pass or an excuse for his inability to handle it? His two "amazing" years were only amazing in light of our recent history of utter failure. Would we have been just as excited about a trip to the sweet 16 in 1975, 1976, or 1980? Even in 1987, when we weren't expected to win it all, we would have been surprised and disappointed to have lost in the sweet 16. Nice that we got there? Yes. Amazing? No. 

To paraphrase the Peter Principle of business: "Tom Crean has reached the level of his own incompetence".

In '80 we probably would have... That year Purdue beat us and had their ONLY trip to the final four

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

[quote name="dalton26" post="72898" timestamp="1404324619"]That made absolutely no sense. Try again jr.

The problem is your and other peoples way of thinking. Hey we made a sweet 16 and we were ranked #1 so that's good enough. Who needs to win when we can just be ok? Right? The loser mentality is a joke and I've never understood how people are ok with having it.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app[/quote]

Differing opinions on the best road back to being elite. It doesn't happen overnight and the ways we have tried in the past didn't work.

Count me in the camp that we have to walk before we can run again. If we can the coach without a clear path back to elite status we take move backwards.






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[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

That made absolutely no sense. Try again jr.

The problem is your and other peoples way of thinking. Hey we made a sweet 16 and we were ranked #1 so that's good enough. Who needs to win when we can just be ok? Right? The loser mentality is a joke and I've never understood how people are ok with having it.


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That's because thought eludes you. The only "problem" is guys like you don't have everyone else agreeing. It's a problem of yours not mine. And we're certainly not part of the "problem" with IU

 

You're so obsessed with this situation you're not even reasonable to read or reply to.

 

Sports wouldn't even exist, if the only way to have a good season was to win a trophy.

[Dalton26 16,892]

[quote name="HoosierHoops1" post="72904" timestamp="1404325315"]That's because thought eludes you. The only "problem" is guys like you don't have everyone else agreeing. It's a problem of yours not mine. And we're certainly not part of the "problem" with IU

You're so obsessed with this situation you're not even reasonable to read or reply to.

Sports wouldn't even exist, if the only way to have a good season was to win a trophy.[/quote]

That's not the problem you're completely missing the entire point. I'm no more obsessed than any other poster on this message board. You're trying so hard to make your point that you're not really making any point at all.

You've clearly not read a bit of this thread. Typical someone that has no clue that jumps into the race late. The whole thing was that Crean had put us on top not whether or not we had a successful season. Making a sweet 16 when most expected more isn't successful regardless but that's not what we're talking about.

Also sports exist to see who wins plain and simple. If it wasn't to see who was the best we wouldn't keep score or update the standings.


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[Stuhoo 79,626]

That's not the problem you're completely missing the entire point. I'm no more obsessed than any other poster on this message board. You're trying so hard to make your point that you're not really making any point at all.

You've clearly not read a bit of this thread. Typical someone that has no clue that jumps into the race late. The whole thing was that Crean had put us on top not whether or not we had a successful season. Making a sweet 16 when most expected more isn't successful regardless but that's not what we're talking about.

Also sports exist to see who wins plain and simple. If it wasn't to see who was the best we wouldn't keep score or update the standings.


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So out of 300+ D1 teams only one has a great season each year? Or, out of 150+ big conference teams only one has a great season each year?

 

That's pretty harsh.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Disappointing post season exits happen all the time. It leaves a bitter taste in everyones mouth, but does not change the fact that the season was a good one. Relatively speaking, it was one of the best in recent times. It was progress. Last season was a step (or 5) backwards. That is why there are a lot of people sounding the panic button. Thats why this year is crucial. If he can get us back on track then its all good and I can roll with Crean. If its another bad year, I'm all for finding a new guy because the bad trend will have become a pattern. But, where all the discussion comes from is what qualifies as a "good" year next year. 

[Dalton26 16,892]

[quote name="Stuhoo" post="72908" timestamp="1404326006"]So out of 300+ D1 teams only one has a great season each year? Or, out of 150+ big conference teams only one has a great season each year?

That's pretty harsh.[/quote]

Some of you guys just aren't a fan of reading. Only one can be the best, but I never said only one can have a good season. Another person twisting things for their argument. What a joke.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="dalton26" post="72911" timestamp="1404326375"]Some of you guys just aren't a fan of reading. Only one can be the best, but I never said only one can have a good season. Another person twisting things for their argument. What a joke.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app[/quote] Take a deep breath, count to ten, and then watch some videos of JBJ nailing threes. You'll feel better.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[Stuhoo 79,626]

Some of you guys just aren't a fan of reading. Only one can be the best, but I never said only one can have a good season. Another person twisting things for their argument. What a joke.


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Not trying to twist; just wondering if the foundation of disagreement was that you may have believed that only the champ can have a great season.

 

Seems that you've clarified that you believe that "never said that only one can have a good season". 

 

OK, fine. But I could do without the name-calling (I'm not a fan of reading,"twisting things for argument, "what a joke").

 

Lighten up, Dalton!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs

[Dalton26 16,892]

[quote name="Stuhoo" post="72913" timestamp="1404327125"]Not trying to twist; just wondering if the foundation of disagreement was that you may have believed that only the champ can have a great season.

Seems that you've clarified that you believe that "never said that only one can have a good season".

OK, fine. But I could do without the name-calling (I'm not a fan of reading,"twisting things for argument, "what a joke").

[b]Lighten up, Dalton![/b]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs[/quote]

Fair Enough.

My apologies, after so many times of people arguing points that were never made I got really annoyed. I thought you were doing the same. Shouldn't have assumed.


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[ou812dude 3,326]

gawd, I love the movie Stripes...

 

I know one thing fo sho...If I'm ever in a bad mood, there's not a better cast out there to bring me out of it like

John Candy, Bill Murray, and company...