Turnovers

[Hoosier Cowboy 33]

Let's talk about them. It's been a problem for years. Why is that and can the problem be corrected or is it just a Coach Crean thing?

[CampHoosier 3,697]

Just specifically a Crean thing. He makes horrible passes and has for years

[CampHoosier 3,697]

Remember how bad we turned the ball over in 2011-2012 and 2012-13? I'm surprised those teams even made the tournament. 

[JaybobHoosier 11,839]

Turnovers will always be a thing, but also look back at his IU career and see who he had at PG. Daniel Moore, Verdell Jones, and Jordan Hulls. Jordan was the best ball handler, but not transition guards that coach wanted. Jordan was great at the throw to a running Zeller or VO, but we all saw what happened against VCU.

Yogi is the first true PG he has ever had, but struggled last year because of what he was expected to do. It will be a lot better this upcoming season. Transition basketball with young players will always result in a lot of turnovers, but that's how coach likes to play.

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[BGleas 7,880]

The thing about the turnovers last year was that SO many of them were boneheaded and unforced by the players. I put a lot of that on the players, what I put on Crean is that it seemed to get no better as the season progressed. Towards the end of the year, especially as young players are more used to the speed of the game, the boneheaded turnovers should have gone way down.

[KingPG21 6,582]

Yogi not jumping in the air before making a decision with the ball would be a good step in the right direction. Or Yogi not getting so deep into the defense that he has nowhere to go with the ball, which again could comes down to making better decisions with the ball

[GnarlyTimGarl 1,425]

Ball movement and player movement. Or the lack thereof.

 

I'd call it a player AND system issue.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,916]

How many times did TWill take steps before putting the ball on the floor? That is a middle school turnover, not a COLLEGE play. I do think he had less of those as the season advanced, but the point is we had some VERY basic errors that seemed to repeat.

Alot of the blame goes to the players, but Creaned deserves his share too. I would have sat TWill after those plays until he was Crystal clear WHY he was being called for travel. Each "sitting" would have been longer and longer. That was one of my main gripes.

Another was wasting clock without attacking then giving it to Yogi with 8 seconds left on the shot clock to jack up a trash shot. Yogi is good enough he hit alot of those, but it was awful watching 30 secs of offense with nobody attacking. Arrrrgggghhhhhh.

I got myself all worked up haha.

[Stuhoo 79,545]

Stan, Troy and Yogi will continue to improve, and will turn it over less.

 

Jeremy Hollowell was a turnover machine the likes of which I have never seen at IU. Drove me nuts last year.

 

Therefore, we will turn it over quite a bit less during the coming season (I hope).

[djsalway 4,161]

I think Troy and Stan were both pretty poor with turnovers last year. Another year of growth under their belts should help them and I'm sure Yogi will become smarter with the ball since there will be shooters around him this year.

[CampHoosier 3,697]

So, in summation, young teams make turnovers in complex offenses. There's not a whole lot more Crean can do than just hammer home in practice to protect the ball and not find yourself hurrying to make a play or find yourself in a bad spot on the court. If the message is received in practice but not in games, not much he can do. He's not going to dumb down his offensive philosophy if players simply won't rise to the occasion or simply aren't mature enough to make the mental plays. What good would it do for Troy and Stan if they didn't make those mistakes and didn't have to learn to play at the highest level possible? Crean makes substitutions that are very very dumb. He does not switch on defense very well. He does not utilize his weapons as much as he should. But turnovers are on the players. His system isn't forcing Hollowell of Williams to throw errant passes. His system isn't making Yogi jump and pass. These are things players have to watch on tape and learn from. 

[KingPG21 6,582]

Stan, Troy and Yogi will continue to improve, and will turn it over less.

 

Jeremy Hollowell was a turnover machine the likes of which I have never seen at IU. Drove me nuts last year.

 

Therefore, we will turn it over quite a bit less during the coming season (I hope).

JH was so indecisive with the ball. I was a big supporter of his, but he looked utterly lost against the Cuse zone this year. Can't remember the last time I've seen a college player look that puzzled by what isn't really a complicated defensive scheme

[KingPG21 6,582]

I think Troy and Stan were both pretty poor with turnovers last year. Another year of growth under their belts should help them and I'm sure Yogi will become smarter with the ball since there will be shooters around him this year.

Stan was guilty of running somewhere with the ball and not having anywhere to go with it just like Yogi. It is great that both can break down a defense with the dribble drive so easily, but their decision making needs to be better

[JSHoosier 19,804]

The problem was part player and part system. The players did make bad decisions, Yogi really needs to stop leaving his feet with no where to go etc. However, we're also talking about a coach that in 15 years has never had a team average less than 13 per game. You can say 13 isn't bad but Crean himself has said the goal is 10 or less so it is a bit high, that reflects on the system.

[CampHoosier 3,697]

I'll sacrifice turnovers if we run the ball rather than play a bad half-court offense and chuck up a bad shot with 7 seconds on the shot clock any day of the week. Watching our half-court offense hurt way more than our turnovers. 

[Hovadipo 54,937]

[quote name="CampCrean" post="70157" timestamp="1402599791"]I'll sacrifice turnovers if we run the ball rather than play a bad half-court offense and chuck up a bad shot with 7 seconds on the shot clock any day of the week. Watching our half-court offense hurt way more than our turnovers. [/quote]

Nailed it. If we're outrunning teams for 40 minutes and putting the ball in the basket, 13 turnovers a game won't kill us. It's when we run the weave for 27 seconds of the shot clock then make (yes, make...Yogi wasn't "selfish", he was forced into horrible shots more often than not) Yogi chuck from 25 feet and pray. That usually results in scoring 50ish ppg (except vs. Michigan where weave, pass, pray actually went well) and making the turnovers stand out.


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[HoosierCoop 3,885]

We actually have a "kick" in the offense this year in the drive and kick scheme.

 

When there wasn't a "kick" it was drive and steal.

 

Could an easier offense have made a difference?  Maybe.  You are talking to an old school motion offense guy though.

[Hoosier Cowboy 33]

Good thoughts guys. We have got to get this under control.

[BubbleKnuts 569]

[quote name="KingPG21" post="70143" timestamp="1402593877"]Yogi not jumping in the air before making a decision with the ball would be a good step in the right direction. Or Yogi not getting so deep into the defense that he has nowhere to go with the ball, which again could comes down to making better decisions with the ball[/quote]

Tournament against Cuse.


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[BubbleKnuts 569]

I don't think turnovers are a problem unless you burn them. Crean can't be blamed for that. It's an easy problem to correct. Just adjust the baking time or temperature. Apple is my favorite kind but I also like cherry.

<br /><br />Don't forget the icing.<br /><br /><br />Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners